Police open fire on unarmed couple.

[JackTipper]

Police opened fire on an unarmed couple during a routine traffic stop late Tuesday night because one officer "thought he was shot," a high-ranking Salinas Police Department official said Thursday.

"He saw what he perceived as a threat and thought he was shot, and based on that both officers discharged their firearms," said Dino Bardoni, commander of investigations.

No one was hurt in the 11:24 p.m. incident at North Sanborn Road and Freedom Parkway, but the couple's SUV was riddled with bullet holes and its rear window was shattered.

Seriously, what the fuck? He thought he got shot? I can't believe the bullshit they get away with.

[Proteas]

At 2/7/09 11:16 PM, JackTipper wrote: Seriously, what the fuck? He thought he got shot? I can't believe the bullshit they get away with.

It's the california police, what did you expect?

[Dawnslayer]

How exactly does one "think" they are shot? I'd like to hear the elaboration on this.

[Proteas]

At 2/7/09 11:55 PM, Dawnslayer wrote: How exactly does one "think" they are shot? I'd like to hear the elaboration on this.

Maybe the guy's engine backfired on them.

What amuses me is the description of the vehicle after the shooting as being riddled with bullet holes, and yet no one was hurt. Who taught these guys to shoot, Yosemite Sam?

[ChromeMonkey]

this is completely un-professional of the police, they riddled the car with holes but nobody was hurt. Have they adopted the "Spray and pray,cuz i think i MIGHT POSSIBLY be shot"??!!

[Dawnslayer]

Okay, the "engine backfire" theory is mildly plausible. But I imagine (I've never been shot) that when the bullet goes in, the injured person would feel...I don't know...pain?

[ReiperX]

At 2/8/09 12:05 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 2/7/09 11:55 PM, Dawnslayer wrote: How exactly does one "think" they are shot? I'd like to hear the elaboration on this.

Maybe the guy's engine backfired on them.

What amuses me is the description of the vehicle after the shooting as being riddled with bullet holes, and yet no one was hurt. Who taught these guys to shoot, Yosemite Sam?

Try shooting a gun with a strong adrenaline rush, it doesn't work too well. Try shooting a gun when you are out of breath, again, it doesn't work too well (one of the reasons Police officers don't laser sights on their guns). It also depends on where the police were located at the car when they opened fire as well. A 9mm doesn't have that much penetrating power, so depending on the location of the officers, and the make of the car it isn't that much to say that they didn't injure anyone.

[morefngdbs]

California you say...I wonder if those people are going to get an I.O.U. "a new car", from the Government coffers?
Didn't I just see something here about that State being Flat Broke ! ?

[Idiot-Finder]

At 2/7/09 11:55 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 2/7/09 11:16 PM, JackTipper wrote: Seriously, what the fuck? He thought he got shot? I can't believe the bullshit they get away with.

It's the california police, what did you expect?

That one reminds me of that joke involving the FBI, CIA, and LAPD

Mountain Lion: Alright, alright, I'm a rabbit! I'm a rabbit!

[doubleone]

It doesn't sound like they did much investigation on said shot. I guess they just jumped to conclusions.

[Proteas]

At 2/8/09 12:40 AM, Dawnslayer wrote: the injured person would feel...I don't know...pain?

Nope, you go numb from all the nerves that were severed. You don't feel pain until about a half hour or so later.

At 2/8/09 01:39 AM, ReiperX wrote: Try shooting a gun with a strong adrenaline rush, it doesn't work too well. Try shooting a gun when you are out of breath, again, it doesn't work too well (one of the reasons Police officers don't laser sights on their guns).

They had the car pulled over.... how strong of an adrenalin rush, or how out of breath could they have been walking 10 yards from car to car?

[NeverHundred]

Isn't that standerd procidure out west?

[D2Kvirus]

It's about time the American police got back into the shooting-innocent-people habit: the British, Italian and Greek police have been getting all their press of late.

At 2/8/09 12:40 AM, Dawnslayer wrote: Okay, the "engine backfire" theory is mildly plausible. But I imagine (I've never been shot) that when the bullet goes in, the injured person would feel...I don't know...pain?

Mildly plausible in Loony Toons, maybe.

You would think one of the cops would have checked themselves for bullet holes and/or blood on the car or their clothing, or an entry wound, though...

[Kev-o]

At 2/8/09 11:20 AM, D2Kvirus wrote: It's about time the American police got back into the shooting-innocent-people habit: the British, Italian and Greek police have been getting all their press of late.

A guy got shot execution style by a cop in Oakland back in December. It was only a few days after that Greek kid Alex.

[masterguy-1243]

At 2/7/09 11:55 PM, Proteas wrote: At 2/7/09 11:16 PM, JackTipper wrote: Seriously, what the fuck? He thought he got shot? I can't believe the bullshit they get away with.

It's the california police, what did you expect?

They were holding hands and making out?

[Dawnslayer]

At 2/8/09 10:13 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 2/8/09 12:40 AM, Dawnslayer wrote: the injured person would feel...I don't know...pain?

Nope, you go numb from all the nerves that were severed. You don't feel pain until about a half hour or so later.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Korriken]

At 2/8/09 08:52 AM, morefngdbs wrote: California you say...I wonder if those people are going to get an I.O.U. "a new car", from the Government coffers?
Didn't I just see something here about that State being Flat Broke ! ?

the cops probably got an IOU instead of a paycheck. yeah, i'd go to blasting people myself if I worked for 2 weeks, putting my balls in the line daily and come payday i got a freaking IOU.

[ReiperX]

At 2/8/09 10:13 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 2/8/09 12:40 AM, Dawnslayer wrote: the injured person would feel...I don't know...pain?

Nope, you go numb from all the nerves that were severed. You don't feel pain until about a half hour or so later.

At 2/8/09 01:39 AM, ReiperX wrote: Try shooting a gun with a strong adrenaline rush, it doesn't work too well. Try shooting a gun when you are out of breath, again, it doesn't work too well (one of the reasons Police officers don't laser sights on their guns).

They had the car pulled over.... how strong of an adrenalin rush, or how out of breath could they have been walking 10 yards from car to car?

The adrenaline rush would be from thinking that you got shot, or even shot at. In MCT in the Marine Corps my adrenaline went pretty damn high during a live fire squad rush and the guy behind me fell and a round hit the dirt about a foot in front of me.

[JoS]

At 2/8/09 10:13 AM, Proteas wrote: They had the car pulled over.... how strong of an adrenalin rush, or how out of breath could they have been walking 10 yards from car to car?

Adrenalin kicks in hard and fast. Its not a gradual onset. I had a use of force incident once that did not even involve a gun and I couldn't stop my one leg from shaking.

[Psycho-Medic]

Article is vague. Need more details to come to a conclusion.

[ReiperX]

At 2/12/09 06:35 PM, Psycho-Medic wrote: Article is vague. Need more details to come to a conclusion.

I'm with you on this one. It's easy to laugh at the cops for 1) not being able to shoot 2 people inside a car, and 2) thinking that they are shot when you don't have all of the details.

[Elfer]

At 2/8/09 12:05 AM, Proteas wrote: What amuses me is the description of the vehicle after the shooting as being riddled with bullet holes, and yet no one was hurt. Who taught these guys to shoot, Yosemite Sam?

Well, they were inside the car at the time, and presumably the officers were firing from behind. It's really lucky that nobody was hurt, but not necessarily absurd.

[slothfromabove]

At 2/8/09 12:05 AM, Proteas wrote: Maybe the guy's engine backfired on them.

That's "getting shot at", not "getting shot", and imo means they should have pulled out their guns and yelled a warning.

As for mistaking getting shot - another wtf. Its real easy to work out if you've been shot: do you have any bullet holes in you yes/no.
If someone can't work that little detail out then they really should not be given a gun in the first place

[ReiperX]

At 2/13/09 11:24 AM, slothfromabove wrote:

At 2/8/09 12:05 AM, Proteas wrote: Maybe the guy's engine backfired on them.

That's "getting shot at", not "getting shot", and imo means they should have pulled out their guns and yelled a warning.

As for mistaking getting shot - another wtf. Its real easy to work out if you've been shot: do you have any bullet holes in you yes/no.
If someone can't work that little detail out then they really should not be given a gun in the first place

If you get shot, or shot at you don't have time to look down and say "hey there's a hole in my leg" because if they had to do that then guess what, if they were being shot at they would be dead.

Talk to someone who has been in combat, and/or wounded in combat. It's not like call of duty where your screen turns red, it's not like the movies with arterial spray everywhere and you being thrown to the ground, and it's not like cartoons where there is a clean hole in and out.

[KeithHybrid]

At 2/8/09 05:11 PM, Dawnslayer wrote:

At 2/8/09 10:13 AM, Proteas wrote:

At 2/8/09 12:40 AM, Dawnslayer wrote: the injured person would feel...I don't know...pain?

Nope, you go numb from all the nerves that were severed. You don't feel pain until about a half hour or so later.

But they'd probably still feel the lck of feeling in the injured area, and I'm not sure about anyone else, but numbness is a very uncomfortable sensation.

[ReiperX]

At 2/13/09 11:24 AM, slothfromabove wrote:

At 2/8/09 12:05 AM, Proteas wrote: Maybe the guy's engine backfired on them.

That's "getting shot at", not "getting shot", and imo means they should have pulled out their guns and yelled a warning.

As for mistaking getting shot - another wtf. Its real easy to work out if you've been shot: do you have any bullet holes in you yes/no.
If someone can't work that little detail out then they really should not be given a gun in the first place

Actually I know military training, probably police too that if a gun is aimed at you, or another person, or a shot is fired at you then deadly force is authorized. There is no warning once that happens.

Think of it this way, if someone shoots at you are you going to actually warn them to stop shooting or you'll shoot back? I'm sorry if you think that's the way it goes then you're an idiot, and wouldn't last in an actual firefight.

[Deradius]

At 2/7/09 11:16 PM, JackTipper wrote: Police opened fire on an unarmed couple during a routine traffic stop late Tuesday night because one officer "thought he was shot," a high-ranking Salinas Police Department official said Thursday.

"He saw what he perceived as a threat and thought he was shot, and based on that both officers discharged their firearms," said Dino Bardoni, commander of investigations.

No one was hurt in the 11:24 p.m. incident at North Sanborn Road and Freedom Parkway, but the couple's SUV was riddled with bullet holes and its rear window was shattered.

Seriously, what the fuck? He thought he got shot? I can't believe the bullshit they get away with.

- What had the officers discovered on this 'routine traffic stop' prior to the events described? Did the couple have felony warrants? Were they moving about suspiciously? Had one or both of them ignored commands? Had they attempted to run the officers down with their vehicles? Had there been a pursuit? 'Routine traffic stop' can mean a tremendous number of things, and will predispose the officers and the suspects to certain types of behavior depending on what has happened.

- What did the officer see that he perceived as a threat? Did one of the vehicle's occupants choose an extremely unfortunate time to show of their kid's water pistol? Did the occupant say, "I'm going to blow your head off!" (People do this, believe it or not), then exit the vehicle quickly?

- A few people have commented on the officers' marksmanship, and responses have included references to adrenaline and being out of breath. These are good points. Also consider the conditions - the targets were inside a vehicle, and may not have been visible. They were likely protected by several layers of glass and steel. The officers were using firearms with barrels no greater than seven inches in length (assuming they were using their service sidearms), it was probably dark, and the vehicle and/or the officers may or may not have been moving at the time.

Even with extensive practice, marksmanship with a pistol is difficult. In this case, everyone involved is lucky that the officers didn't hit their targets when they discharged their firearms. Everyone came out alive - this is the best of all possible results.

--

The 'question authority' mentality is a good one to have if a state is to remain free, but the citizenry needs to question authority in an intelligent way. Think critically about what is known and what is not known before condemning or defending anyone. Remember, being in a situation and seeing two paragraphs about it on a message board are two entirely different things.

I'm not saying these cops were in the right. What I am saying is that there is not enough information to make a clear decision. Granted, every profession has its morons - and these cops may or may not be prime examples. We just don't know.