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Shaggytheclown17
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Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 05:47 PM Reply

This is something that has been bugging the shit out of me for a while.

What possesses a man or woman to attempt at becoming the opposite gender, I mean come the fuck on.

Its evident that if a man or woman has a sex change, a full one, they'll never be able to have kids.
The only real outcome of this surgical transformation is a guy or girl with mutilated reproductive organs.

So if anyone has a take on why the hell people bother paying thousands of dollars for something that doesn't even work entirely,or if you have a negative or positive outlook on it, plz share.


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thedo12
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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 05:54 PM Reply

well my understanding is that they feel like there in the wrong body , so they try best as possible to change there apearence to become what they feel is there natural body.

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 05:55 PM Reply

At 2/1/09 05:47 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: This is something that has been bugging the shit out of me for a while.

What possesses a man or woman to attempt at becoming the opposite gender, I mean come the fuck on.

Its evident that if a man or woman has a sex change, a full one, they'll never be able to have kids.
The only real outcome of this surgical transformation is a guy or girl with mutilated reproductive organs.

So if anyone has a take on why the hell people bother paying thousands of dollars for something that doesn't even work entirely,or if you have a negative or positive outlook on it, plz share.

Well, if I remember correctly, there is a genetically defect that makes a woman be born with a man's body. I don't mean in the simple sense that this person is attracted to guys, as there are more differences between men and women other than that. I mean like in the sense that "the person is completely female but due to an error developed a male body as a fetus."

I mean, if you were to have a female body Shaggy, but mentally you were exactly like you are now, wouldn't you be greatly bothered? Or are you saying you'd have no problems just living as a female from now on, just because that's what your body is?

Do you think they only difference between males and females is the body they grew up with?


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 05:59 PM Reply

At 2/1/09 05:47 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: What possesses a man or woman to attempt at becoming the opposite gender, I mean come the fuck on.

Just because you don't want to become the opposit gender doesn't mean that some people don't want to.


Its evident that if a man or woman has a sex change, a full one, they'll never be able to have kids.
The only real outcome of this surgical transformation is a guy or girl with mutilated reproductive organs.

Mutilated? Have you ever seen some that has had a sex change genitals? I haven't and if you haven't either don't say thier mutilated. Also you can adopt or save sperm and eggs if you ever want children.

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 06:03 PM Reply

i have no idea this would come up, but... i think they just want to experiment their body for the hell of it. maybe they're sick of having the same whatchamacallit crap and think about "what is life being the opposite gender?"


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 06:15 PM Reply

At 2/1/09 06:03 PM, crazygamer88 wrote: i have no idea this would come up, but... i think they just want to experiment their body for the hell of it. maybe they're sick of having the same whatchamacallit crap and think about "what is life being the opposite gender?"

I think there is a difference between wondering and going through with a pretty much irreversible procedure.

SkunkyFluffy
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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 07:12 PM Reply

At 2/1/09 06:03 PM, crazygamer88 wrote: i have no idea this would come up, but... i think they just want to experiment their body for the hell of it. maybe they're sick of having the same whatchamacallit crap and think about "what is life being the opposite gender?"

No sexual reasignment doctor in the United States would perform a procedure on someone if this was their mindset.

Sex changes stem from an individual who is mentally and emotionally one sex and physically another. Gender is a totally different factor.

If your whole life you felt that you had the wrong genitals, and someone told you you could take some hormones and have some surgery and make it all right, wouldn't you? Sex changes are not experimentation. They're setting right what that person perceives as a biological wrong.

There's a lot of ignorance in this thread. Just because you would never do something like this doesn't mean someone else is crazy or bored to do it. Think of it more along the lines of having a pesky third nipple or an extra toe removed.


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 07:18 PM Reply

At 2/1/09 07:12 PM, SkunkyFluffy wrote: Just because you would never do something like this doesn't mean someone else is crazy or bored to do it.

But then how will we feel superior?


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 07:38 PM Reply

What a hateful dude. Why do you care, anyway?


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 1st, 2009 @ 10:04 PM Reply

well, my girlfriend is an mtf (male to female) transsexual pre-op
so to help her along with coming to terms and coming out to some very religious parents (which she hasnt done yet but she has come out to her sister) ive done a fair deal of research on the subject

from what i remember transsexualism is a birth defect, but not a harmful one basically a gland (im not sure which) that is traditionally bigger in males and smaller in females is for the opposite gender than their genitals + the like are

to their genitals: it is nearly flawless for mtf surgeries but much riskier for ftm (female to male) surgeries

depending on the budget you have you can afford a better doctor and unfortunately unless you have a very big budget the chance of an orgasm post-op is greatly reduced, which would be the only difference

as someone said you can use a sperm bank for mtf transsexuals which my gf and i intend to do, that way she and i can have children.

transsexualism has no cure, if youre born with it thats it. the only option is treatment. and the only treatment is gender reassignment surgery. no credible doctor will ever even consider your (im speaking generally btw, not you personally) case for a sex change unless psychiatrists have deemed you truly a transsexual, since the surgery is irreversible, and then even afterwards you must undergo various other tests like that where youre told to live as your desired gender for x amount of time, to see if thats enough for you

if anyone wants to ask some experts on the situation, real transsexuals, transgendereds, and crossdressers go here its an online support site


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 2nd, 2009 @ 12:51 AM Reply

Let me ask you one question Shag, not as an insult, not to feel superior, I just need to know where you are on this issue because I think it will tell me all I would need to know about whether or not you could "get" the issue you're asking about, because I think it's in the same sort of family:

Do you think that being gay is something that is biological, or is it a choice someone makes? Like do they have their entire being telling them to find fulfillment with a member of their same sex, or do you think they just wake up one day and say "you know, think I want to get into a relationship with a member of the same sex. See what that is like"

Honestly, I think anybody here who's curious about this has to ask themself that sort of question, and be willing to change their outlook if the answer is "choice" because otherwise I think you're being ignorant and just flat out wrong and upside down on the issue.


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 2nd, 2009 @ 01:10 AM Reply

At 2/1/09 06:03 PM, crazygamer88 wrote: i have no idea this would come up, but... i think they just want to experiment their body for the hell of it. maybe they're sick of having the same whatchamacallit crap and think about "what is life being the opposite gender?"

There are tons of hurdles to get a sex change-- the obvious one is the financial aspect. Then the psychological tests.

They're not going to give one to a person who is willy and nilly all about it. They want to be sure that this is a psychologically sane person who knows that he or she will live with this procedure for the rest of his or her life.

I mean, it's tons and tons of work. People even offer acting classes doing the basic things like... pouring a glass of water, picking up a handkerchief, or typing like a man or woman.

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 12:03 AM Reply

The current DSM-IV (the diagnostic manual for mental health workers) contains gender identity disorder (GID) as a mental health disorder. So anyone who takes intro to psych covers this in the material. There is much debate, but correlation seem to indicate that men who suffer from GID have brain structures similar to women, and it is suspected they were exposed to hormone sets closer to those meant for females during fetal development. The occurrence for people born with ambiguous genitalia have stronger doses of mismatched hormones during fetal development. The trend is less apparent in regards to women suffering from GID.
However, it should be noted that currently, there is debate as to whether to put GID in the DSM-V. A large part of the thought is it isn't curable (like homosexuality - if you think otherwise, you've been duped) so in a way it's insulting to state as a disorder (once again, like homosexuality, which used to be in the DSM), but it is so disabling that it should be recognized.
There. Some insight from someone with a [n undergraduate] psych degree.

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 12:37 AM Reply

People don't have sex changes to have kids...and some people value being closer to who they really are, than having the ability to have a kid...


RAWR.

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Shaggytheclown17
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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 04:26 AM Reply

At 2/2/09 12:51 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
Do you think that being gay is something that is biological, or is it a choice someone makes?

Well I for one know it to be a choice, I myself went through a phase at one time but got through it quickly without doing anything I'd regret, anyway, of course getting a sex change is a choice, only a while ago people couldn't n they didn't whack their own nuts off er anything.

Honestly, I think anybody here who's curious about this has to ask themself that sort of question, and be willing to change their outlook if the answer is "choice" because otherwise I think you're being ignorant and just flat out wrong and upside down on the issue.

The only reason I think its a dumb choice is that having a sex change will NEVER make a person truly a member of the opposite sex, if they go all the way through with it, yes, they will NEVER be able to have kids the normal way and they wont be able to have one in the opposite way, thats just a fact.

So as I was saying, a sex change doesn't fully turn someone into the opposite gender, so they will overall always be a man/woman with a mutilated reproductive system, meaning again that they wont be able to have kids in a normal way let alone the opposite way.

That is really the only beef I have with it, why would they do that if they couldn't change completely?
Even if a guy has boobs n a vagina, even if a woman has a deeper voice n an unfunctional penis, doesn't mean they're anything different then what they still are.

So have I cleared everything up?


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Shaggytheclown17
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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 04:31 AM Reply

At 2/3/09 12:37 AM, TheWolfe wrote: People don't have sex changes to have kids...

.........WTF WAS THAT?

Did I say anything like that? omg I hope you made a mistake.

If you were reading correctly you may have understood lol


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 08:14 AM Reply

At 2/3/09 04:26 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:
At 2/2/09 12:51 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
Well I for one know it to be a choice, I myself went through a phase at one time but got through it quickly without doing anything I'd regret, anyway, of course getting a sex change is a choice, only a while ago people couldn't n they didn't whack their own nuts off er anything.

Just because you found it a choice, doesn't mean others will. It sounds like you're bisexual and ignore attraction to the same sex, rather than being gay.
And for the record, while a sex change is a choice, transsexualism is not. And believe it or not, some people became so distressed and depressed by their condition that they DID "whack their own nuts off" before the surgery was available. Many people still suicide over the issue.

The only reason I think its a dumb choice is that having a sex change will NEVER make a person truly a member of the opposite sex, if they go all the way through with it, yes, they will NEVER be able to have kids the normal way and they wont be able to have one in the opposite way, thats just a fact.

So as I was saying, a sex change doesn't fully turn someone into the opposite gender, so they will overall always be a man/woman with a mutilated reproductive system, meaning again that they wont be able to have kids in a normal way let alone the opposite way.

That is really the only beef I have with it, why would they do that if they couldn't change completely?
Even if a guy has boobs n a vagina, even if a woman has a deeper voice n an unfunctional penis, doesn't mean they're anything different then what they still are.

So have I cleared everything up?

It's not an issue of becoming the opposite sex through the surgery, it's an issue of becoming closer to how they truly feel. Sure, they aren't fully the opposite sex, but if their new body makes them happier than the old, and relieves a large portion (if not all) of the stress associated with the condition, then why not?

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 08:42 AM Reply

At 2/3/09 04:26 AM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote:
At 2/2/09 12:51 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
Do you think that being gay is something that is biological, or is it a choice someone makes?
Well I for one know it to be a choice, I myself went through a phase at one time but got through it quickly without doing anything I'd regret, anyway, of course getting a sex change is a choice, only a while ago people couldn't n they didn't whack their own nuts off er anything.

Honestly, I think anybody here who's curious about this has to ask themself that sort of question, and be willing to change their outlook if the answer is "choice" because otherwise I think you're being ignorant and just flat out wrong and upside down on the issue.
The only reason I think its a dumb choice is that having a sex change will NEVER make a person truly a member of the opposite sex, if they go all the way through with it, yes, they will NEVER be able to have kids the normal way and they wont be able to have one in the opposite way, thats just a fact.

So as I was saying, a sex change doesn't fully turn someone into the opposite gender, so they will overall always be a man/woman with a mutilated reproductive system, meaning again that they wont be able to have kids in a normal way let alone the opposite way.

That is really the only beef I have with it, why would they do that if they couldn't change completely?
Even if a guy has boobs n a vagina, even if a woman has a deeper voice n an unfunctional penis, doesn't mean they're anything different then what they still are.

So have I cleared everything up?

You have a very clouded view on both homosexuality and transexuals. You say you had a phase of which you thought about been or atleast trying to be gay? So now, because you were curious and decided that, thats all it was thats all it is for everyone else. Just curiousity and when it comes down to it, its just a choice. Maybe for some people it is just about curiousity and therefore a choice, but i highly doubt these people even attempt to go past the point of no return.
For the people who choose to make these decisions and live their lives in that way it is alot more than that. Its deffinately not just 'a phase'. Nor is it something that is lightly thought about, these people will have spent most of their lives before they made the decision to have a sex change thinking about and weighing up the risks of such a decision.
Do you think they would give up such a great thing as children to something they hadn't spent many many many days,weeks, months and probably years debating?
Also, do you think they are even comftable bringing a child into a world when they're not even comftable living inside their own body?
Furthermore, you say because their not brining a baby into the world the natural way, its not the same. Your talking about natural ways, but have you considered with the mental state they are in its natural for them to have babies the 'natural' way as they most likely will find it very unnatural to have sex with the same opposite sex, which is essentially the same sex to them.
You say that they're mutilating their bodies, and they will never be an actual member of the opposite sex. Your right when you say they wont be a true member of the opposite sex, but they'll be a hell of alot closer than they were before. Also i would imagine this would mean alot more to them than a working reproductive organ that feels wrong to them and they have no intenstion of using. Infact alot of people in this position hate their genitalia, some even go so far that they can not look at it.
Think of it this way, if you were to wake up tomorrow and have female breats im pretty sure you would have them removed. Its essentially the same, you'd be a male with the wrong body part. You wouldn't be multilating yourself, but infact making yourself feel normal again.
Also the thing you said about before transgender procedures came about people didn't just hack off their own genitals, you are wrong. There is known cases where people have done this. People also have known to comit suicide and its very common for people in this situation to get into self harming.

Altogether i have no idea how it must feel to be in this situation, and you deffinately don't nor can you imagine, as you've proved by been so niave in what you are saying. You should try learn more about things before you chuck such ignorant and niave statements about.

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 08:45 AM Reply

Sorry about double posting, i just noticed some spelling mistakes, which i appologise for. I neglected to proof read before i posted as i am quite tired, as i've been working most of the night and day so i've had little sleep...

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 09:15 AM Reply

This is a problem I noticed: People are overemphasizing the ability to have children (especially interesting since I think only small minority of NGers have children)
But it happens in all conversations regarding anything to do with sexuality. It's inherent, obviously, because sex makes babies (if you dumb it down fully).
Hell, one of my pet peeves is the fact that male genitalia are referred to "manhood". To paraphrase President Obama, it doesn't make you a man to be able to father children, it makes you a man to be able to raise them.
Many people chose not to have children, regardless of fertility ability. Millions undergo semi-permanent sterilization procedures each year. People who became sterile through a sex-change fashion are no more depriving themselves then those set on not having kids.

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 10:04 AM Reply

Some babies are born with both male and female genitalia. The doctors at birth or shortly afterwards alter the genitalia based on certain conditions (size of labia, penis etc). what appears to be an undersized testicle sac may be an oversized labia.

So if the doctors get it wrong what gender the person is and preform the wrong alteration you have someone growing up hardwired to be one gender, but their body is a different gender.

There was actually one female Olympic athlete who was stripped of her medal because her chromosomes did not match with that of a regular female. Gender is not as clean cut as we would like to think it is.


Bellum omnium contra omnes

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 10:06 AM Reply

At 2/3/09 10:04 AM, JoS wrote: Some babies are born with both male and female genitalia. The doctors at birth or shortly afterwards alter the genitalia based on certain conditions (size of labia, penis etc). what appears to be an undersized testicle sac may be an oversized labia.

So if the doctors get it wrong what gender the person is and preform the wrong alteration you have someone growing up hardwired to be one gender, but their body is a different gender.

There was actually one female Olympic athlete who was stripped of her medal because her chromosomes did not match with that of a regular female. Gender is not as clean cut as we would like to think it is.

Typically, people born with ambiguous genitalia have brain structures closer to their genital gender, as opposed to their chromosomal gender.

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 10:29 AM Reply

At 2/1/09 05:47 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Its evident that if a man or woman has a sex change, a full one, they'll never be able to have kids.

They can.

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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 10:44 AM Reply

they feel like they are in the wrong body so they change


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 02:12 PM Reply

The fact that you can never be "fully" the opposite sex is irrelevant to most transgender. Many in fact choose not to have the full surgeries that are available to them, like the "Pregnant Man" and the famous/infamous F-to-M pornstar Buck Angel. Both began as women and are now men, but chose to keep their female genitals.

It is less common for M-to-Fs to keep their genitals, but that's because the penis is so undeniably male. There's an interesting book on male gender theory by renowned feminist writer Susan Bordo called The Male Body where she discusses the fact that you can put a penis on a drawing of a clearly female body and people will identify it as male, whereas a clearly male body without a penis gets much more ambiguous results.

However, there are still plenty of M-to-F transgendered who choose to keep their penises. After estrogen therapy they're usually somewhat shrunken anyway, much like after testosterone treatment in F-to-Ms the clitoris is often so enlarged that it can be surgically altered to create a small organ capable of sufficient hardness for penetration.


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 02:15 PM Reply

A person should be allowed to do with their own body whatever they want to. It's not hurting anybody, and it's just a big problem that some people face in their life, so they choose to dramatically alter it.


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 03:11 PM Reply

At 2/3/09 10:06 AM, AntiangelicAngel wrote: Typically, people born with ambiguous genitalia have brain structures closer to their genital gender, as opposed to their chromosomal gender.

Your post is contradictory to proving me wrong. If their brain structure does not reflect chromosomes, but rather their genitalia, then that would mean individuals born with ambiguous genitalia have ambigious brain structure, so the gender assigned by the doctor may nto reflect accurately brain structure.

Also by using the word typically you acknowledge that this is not always the case, hence nto everyone with ambiguous gender at birth wants a sex change.


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 06:06 PM Reply

At 2/2/09 12:51 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:
Well I for one know it to be a choice, I myself went through a phase at one time but got through it quickly without doing anything I'd regret,

scientists beg to differ! being gay is definitely a proven genetic defect. a lot of genes have been recognized to cause the 'disease' (yes in my med books its called a disease)

Honestly, I think anybody here who's curious about this has to ask themself that sort of question, and be willing to change their outlook if the answer is "choice" because otherwise I think you're being ignorant and just flat out wrong and upside down on the issue.

Why? because YOU cant comprehend the issue? they choose to have an operation, they dont choose the way they feel about their body. They dont choose the fact that they are disgusted by it and feel alienated by their own body.


The only reason I think its a dumb choice is that having a sex change will NEVER make a person truly a member of the opposite sex, if they go all the way through with it, yes, they will NEVER be able to have kids the normal way and they wont be able to have one in the opposite way, thats just a fact.

That is completely beside the point; there are lots of people who cant reproduce (male and female) does that state that they arent really the gender they are? no it doesnt. They are simply a female/male brain trapped in a male/female body. They want to move heaven and earth to change that. A sex change operation is just a partly solution to the problem, which can help significantly.


So as I was saying, a sex change doesn't fully turn someone into the opposite gender, so they will overall always be a man/woman with a mutilated reproductive system, meaning again that they wont be able to have kids in a normal way let alone the opposite way.

I dont understand why you have to bring 'kids' into the discussion... not important. You feel like there is no difference between a cock and a cunt (in this case more a ovary+uterus ) if they dont work like nature intended? ill laugh when the doctor tells you your seamen isnt active enough to reproduce.


That is really the only beef I have with it, why would they do that if they couldn't change completely?
Even if a guy has boobs n a vagina, even if a woman has a deeper voice n an unfunctional penis, doesn't mean they're anything different then what they still are.

So have I cleared everything up?

you have cleared up your closed mindedness to everyone else yes. one more hypothetical/rhetorical question. if you get huge manboobs because of some hormonal defect, would you let them remove it? I mean it wouldnt make you lesser of a man if you wouldnt.. its only appearance, why bother.


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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 06:09 PM Reply

At 2/3/09 10:29 AM, Brick-top wrote:
At 2/1/09 05:47 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: Its evident that if a man or woman has a sex change, a full one, they'll never be able to have kids.
They can.

"born a girl" & "He was able to conceive because he kept his female organs when he switched genders. "


God invented evolution 'cause he couldn't do it all by himself! Awesome Tees!

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Christopherr
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Response to Sex change wtf? Feb. 3rd, 2009 @ 08:14 PM Reply

What a confused society we live in.

At 2/1/09 05:55 PM, Drakim wrote: Do you think they only difference between males and females is the body they grew up with?

You just enraged one million feminists.


"NGs! now with +1 medical consultation." -SolInvictus

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