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NO ONE IS BORN GAY. WE ALL HAVE TEMPTATIONS, AND SOME PEOPLE ARE TEMPTED TO COMMIT ONE SIN MORE THAN ANOTHER, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN ANYONE IS BORN HELPLESS TO COMMIT THE SIN. ANYONE WHO EXPERIENCES HOMOSEXUAL TEMPTATIONS CAN OVERCOME THEM THE SAME WAY THE REST OF US DEAL WITH OUR VICES, THROUGH DISCIPLINE AND REPENTANCE. I WILL NEVER ACCEPT A DAY WHERE THOSE WHO PROUDLY COMMIT ACTIONS THAT THE BIBLE PLAINLY REFERS TO AS AN ABOMINATION WILL BE ACCEPTED AS MEMBERS OF SOCIETY. THEY BELONG IN PRISON ALONG WITH ALL THE PEDOPHILES, MURDERERS, AND OTHER LOW LIVES THAT COULD NOT OVERCOME THEIR TEMPTATIONS EITHER. PROBABLY SHOULD CASTRATE THEM TOO, TO PREVENT THEM FROM FURTHER COMMITTING SUCH AN ACT.

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At 2/25/09 05:22 PM, studmuffin7 wrote:

NO ONE IS BORN GAY. WE ALL HAVE TEMPTATIONS, AND SOME PEOPLE ARE TEMPTED TO COMMIT ONE SIN MORE THAN ANOTHER, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN ANYONE IS BORN HELPLESS TO COMMIT THE SIN. ANYONE WHO EXPERIENCES HOMOSEXUAL TEMPTATIONS CAN OVERCOME THEM THE SAME WAY THE REST OF US DEAL WITH OUR VICES, THROUGH DISCIPLINE AND REPENTANCE. I WILL NEVER ACCEPT A DAY WHERE THOSE WHO PROUDLY COMMIT ACTIONS THAT THE BIBLE PLAINLY REFERS TO AS AN ABOMINATION WILL BE ACCEPTED AS MEMBERS OF SOCIETY. THEY BELONG IN PRISON ALONG WITH ALL THE PEDOPHILES, MURDERERS, AND OTHER LOW LIVES THAT COULD NOT OVERCOME THEIR TEMPTATIONS EITHER. PROBABLY SHOULD CASTRATE THEM TOO, TO PREVENT THEM FROM FURTHER COMMITTING SUCH AN ACT.

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May God have mercy should your son or daughter be gay. And from the way you sound you probably have latent homosexual tendencies yourself. I hope one day you come around and accept the way you were born.

At 2/25/09 05:37 PM, Dekagaru wrote:

At 2/25/09 05:22 PM, studmuffin7 wrote:

May God have mercy should your son or daughter be gay. And from the way you sound you probably have latent homosexual tendencies yourself. I hope one day you come around and accept the way you were born.

Perhaps you were not paying attention sir, but I announced that the previous post was to be the last word on the topic. Get with the program, the final answer has been given! Moreover, I find your insinuation to be insulting as I harbor no faggotorial tendencies, and take great offense to those that do. More to the point, I would not allow my son or daughter to commit such abominations, they would be raised properly.

At 2/25/09 05:48 PM, studmuffin7 wrote:

Perhaps you were not paying attention sir, but I announced that the previous post was to be the last word on the topic. Get with the program, the final answer has been given! Moreover, I find your insinuation to be insulting as I harbor no faggotorial tendencies, and take great offense to those that do. More to the point, I would not allow my son or daughter to commit such abominations, they would be raised properly.

Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself? Why dont you go back to fapping to your bible eh?

At 2/25/09 05:51 PM, Dekagaru wrote:

At 2/25/09 05:48 PM, studmuffin7 wrote:

Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself? Why dont you go back to fapping to your bible eh?

Like most of the commentary in this forum that was explosively inflammatory and uncalled for. I have no need to convince you of anything. God knows the truth, I know the truth...who cares what vulgar insinuations you try to make against me to distract from the real issue at hand. And your comment about "fapping to my Bible" is woefully offensive. I'm not kidding, if I knew for sure where you lived I would give you quite the lashing for that one, it was exceedingly uncalled for! You are lucky your parents don't hear you speaking like this.

As for the whole of Newgrounds, I have tried reasoning with you in the past and found only blasphemy. Blasphemy beyond my imagination. I tried to warn others that the only possibilities after you die are Heaven and Hell. It does not matter what culture you are from or what you believe, that is the truth. Just as surely as 4 + 4 = 8 and the sun will set again, it is only Heaven or Hell. How can people put more emphasis on enjoying this short life than on preparing for eternity?!?

Perhaps you have all been seduced by Satan and unable to comprehend the long term peril you are putting yourselves in. I want to help you. I want to save the unsaved. But there is a limit to how much blasphemy I can tolerate. I bid you ado.

At 2/25/09 06:00 PM, studmuffin7 wrote:

Perhaps you have all been seduced by Satan and unable to comprehend the long term peril you are putting yourselves in. I want to help you. I want to save the unsaved. But there is a limit to how much blasphemy I can tolerate. I bid you ado.

Fap fap fap fap fap!

=P

My its easy to push your buttons.

Well, I am a very conservative Lutheran Christian. I am against gay marriage because I believe it is wrong. I suppose I push my ideals on others, but no more than people who oppose murder and lying and try and push the ideals of "don't murder" and "don't lie" on others. You see, being religious means that, ideally, you would want everyone (NOT by force, but by choice) to have the same ideals as you and naturally would speak out your beliefs. Just as those who don't want me to be Christian will try to convince me and make my own choice not be one anymore and naturally speak their ideals to me. Also, marriage was once a solely religious union, but has now been adopted by the government. I will always strongly oppose Christian acceptance of homosexuality far more than governmental acceptance. This whole fighting for gay marriage is really just a fight for the right to call it marriage, and keep it as a trophy while the religious people of the country want to keep the sacrament they once had as their own. And despite me thinking homosexuality is a sin, those who are gay should never be treated differently. Sure, I think it's wrong, but so is lying, and I do that all the time and I can't stop. The best way to word my opposition to gay marriage is "I really wish you wouldn't".

At 2/25/09 06:47 PM, PBass wrote: This whole fighting for gay marriage is really just a fight for the right to call it marriage, and keep it as a trophy while the religious people of the country want to keep the sacrament they once had as their own. And despite me thinking homosexuality is a sin, those who are gay should never be treated differently. Sure, I think it's wrong, but so is lying, and I do that all the time and I can't stop. The best way to word my opposition to gay marriage is "I really wish you wouldn't".

I have nothing against people's belief systems. And if you think that me faithfully loving and wanting to spend my life with another human being is wrong, so be it. The government should not be in the marriage business at all, its is a religious institution and it should remain that way. However, my future husband and I deserve the same rights and protections that a heterosexual couple have. If you want to call our union a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, that's fine by me.

I respect your beliefs, and even if you personally consider gay marriage wrong, I would hope you would consider the lives of 1000's of people who want to legally bond with the person they love.

At 2/25/09 06:55 PM, Dekagaru wrote: I have nothing against people's belief systems. And if you think that me faithfully loving and wanting to spend my life with another human being is wrong, so be it. The government should not be in the marriage business at all, its is a religious institution and it should remain that way. However, my future husband and I deserve the same rights and protections that a heterosexual couple have. If you want to call our union a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, that's fine by me.

I respect your beliefs, and even if you personally consider gay marriage wrong, I would hope you would consider the lives of 1000's of people who want to legally bond with the person they love.

Thanks for the very respectful response, I don't get that very often when people know that I'm a Christian. But because of my belief, I am opposed to the union of homosexual couples. When I think that something is morally wrong I believe it to be the rules of the world and not just those who fall into my religion. However I'm not going to force them on others, just oppose what I believe is wrong, and if people choose not to accept what I say then that's that, they shouldn't be treated inhumanely (Westboro Church I'm looking at you). It seems though we're at an impasse in our discussion and can only agree to disagree on whether or not homosexuals are granted union, legal or otherwise and can only hope for ourselves that our own ideals are carried out in the end.

At 2/25/09 07:04 PM, PBass wrote:

I respect your beliefs, and even if you personally consider gay marriage wrong, I would hope you would consider the lives of 1000's of people who want to legally bond with the person they love.

Thanks for the very respectful response, I don't get that very often when people know that I'm a Christian. But because of my belief, I am opposed to the union of homosexual couples. When I think that something is morally wrong I believe it to be the rules of the world and not just those who fall into my religion. However I'm not going to force them on others, just oppose what I believe is wrong, and if people choose not to accept what I say then that's that, they shouldn't be treated inhumanely (Westboro Church I'm looking at you). It seems though we're at an impasse in our discussion and can only agree to disagree on whether or not homosexuals are granted union, legal or otherwise and can only hope for ourselves that our own ideals are carried out in the end.

But I must ask you this. It has been settled that this country has a seperation of church and state. And if that is the case what is the argument behind not allowing homosexual couples to have legal protection? If the basis of the argument is the bible, then while thats plenty of reason for a church not to marry a couple, it should have no bearing on government protections. What would happen if the majority religion of this country were muslim. And they forced women to wear shawls over their faces.... if you were a woman you would ask: "Why must I wear one? I am not a muslim." And everyone told you, "The Quaran says so." This is not to say I have anything against muslims, tis only an example.

It is the DUTY of our government to protect ALL of its citizens, gay, straight, christian, athiest, heck even neo-nazis. Me joining with the man I love would have no impact on your life. The definition of marrige has changed many times, first it meant women were property. Then it meant a man and the woman of the same race. Only recently was it expanded to allow different races. If you disagree with gay marrige, then dont marry your own gender! =P

I wish I could explain to you what its like, all the crap you have to put with. Im probably not going to convince you otherwise, but God made me the way I am for a reason. Why I do not know. But I have somone who loves me and I am very happy with my life. I dont belive in a God that doesnt want me to be happy.

Yes, I understand. If I put myself different shoes, I know what you mean. I know how angry it would make me if the government strongly supported a religion that I didn't believe and that opposed everything I believed in. It would seem unfair, especially when the sin that you're accused of doing doesn't seem to hurt anyone, and it seems that God just wants to take away what makes you happy. I understand this, which is why I don't force my views on anyone, and just speak them out, and anybody who wants to listen to what I say can. I also feel the same pressure sometimes, those belonging to my religion are commonly called intellectually inferior and hateful. But believe what you think is right, and believe it hard, and look for the answer. Whatever is right and truthful and good will always win in the end, no matter how hard it may look at times. As cheesy as that sounds it's true. As a Christian I trust my God and believe that what He says is right and wrong is what's best for the world, and in that case I may be a close minded fool, but it's who I am. Thanks for the discussion, but I have to run for now, I'll talk to you later! :)

At 2/25/09 07:28 PM, PBass wrote: Thanks for the discussion, but I have to run for now, I'll talk to you later! :)

Farewell, and God bless.

It's simple, although gays will never accept the correct (in my opinion) answer to this question. You can get married without it being called marriage. All marriage does is add religion to becoming legally bound. Now, the religion gays want to get married under say that the holy doctrines forbid marriage. One man and one woman does not in any way mean one man and one man, or one woman and one woman. Gays are trying to add religion to something that doesn't need religion added to it for the sake of making a statement of equality. The thing is, the religion pretty much forbids it, you are going against the religion by taking part in the gay marriage, so why do it in the first place? Do you want The Bible to be edited to say "one man and one woman, but it's ok if two guys want to get married too?" It makes no sense. If they want to be legally bound, gay couples should be allowed to do so. But they shouldn't get "married." It's kind of sad how the separation of church and state has been destroyed over this topic. The churches say "but our religion says we can not do this, no matter what." Then the government says "you are being forced to allow gay couples to become married, you have no choice in the matter."

To sum it up, gay couples should be able to be bound legally, but they shouldn't try to destroy religious beliefs by forcing religions to accept gay marriage.

At 2/25/09 07:58 PM, Fierce-Deity wrote:

To sum it up, gay couples should be able to be bound legally, but they shouldn't try to destroy religious beliefs by forcing religions to accept gay marriage.

Like I said, you can call our union whatever you wish. As long as the government gives us the same protection and rights as a married couple. There are thousands of churches that will willingly perform gay marriges. And if in the eyes of the state my marrige is called a "civil union"... whatever.. I could care less. I will still call my mate my husband, even if the government calls him my "domestic partner."

At 1/24/09 08:43 AM, colintabulous wrote: A marriage is a holy and religious union between a man and a woman. I believe gays should have the right to a legal union, but shouldn't have one in a chapel with a priest and such.

Pointing out here, you don't have to be in a church to get married. I would never get married in a church, as I am a strict atheist, and my parents are lesbian, so this argument pisses me off to no end. there is no alternative(that provides equal rights) outside of marriage. For example, even though my parents are domestic partners, should my (real) mom die, my other mom would not have guaranteed custody of me. now that is fucked up.

At 2/26/09 03:50 PM, fortdeath wrote:

At 1/24/09 08:43 AM, colintabulous wrote: A marriage is a holy and religious union between a man and a woman. I believe gays should have the right to a legal union, but shouldn't have one in a chapel with a priest and such.

Pointing out here, you don't have to be in a church to get married. I would never get married in a church, as I am a strict atheist, and my parents are lesbian, so this argument pisses me off to no end. there is no alternative(that provides equal rights) outside of marriage. For example, even though my parents are domestic partners, should my (real) mom die, my other mom would not have guaranteed custody of me. now that is fucked up.

I agree that that is entirely messed up. The legal protections that a marriage allows are far too important to not allow a homosexual couple to have. As long as the protections are the same, then I don't think a majority of them really care.

At 2/26/09 03:50 PM, fortdeath wrote: I am a strict atheist.

How does that work? It's not like real athiesm has a dogma to it that you need to follow.

Kidding aside, I still don't see why we can't have civil unions for the state, marriages for the church, and just leave them at that.

At 2/26/09 05:47 PM, dySWN wrote:

Kidding aside, I still don't see why we can't have civil unions for the state, marriages for the church, and just leave them at that.

Well, some homosexuals will argue that it creates a "seperate but equal" situation. Since heterosexual couples can get a mere civil union as well. Personally, I could care less, and would take what I can get. The sad thing is that we dont even have civil unions where I live, which is sad. =(

A sleeping flame war...

At 2/26/09 08:20 PM, Minglle wrote: A sleeping flame war...

Except for one nasty troll I think this thread has remained rather civil.

im against homosexuality and they should be sent to concentration camps.

Marriage has always been between A man and a woman. Even in societys that Embrace Homosexuality.

Marriage is a Religious institution. There a re laws regulating it. But it is not a secular institution.
There is one other thing that pisses off religious poeple. It is that they want to get Married, In a Church, By a Priest, As Christians. This is like Serving BBQ pork ribs at a Barmitzfa, or Binge drinking in a Mosque.

Not only is Homosexuality on the list of things you will Automatically go to hell for unless you change your ways (Murder, suicide, Anything sexual outside of marriage). It is on the List of things God Has Smitten People for doing. The cities of Sodom and Gomore. Destroyed by Divine wrath for Butt Sex. If God Smites you For it, It is wrong.

At 2/27/09 12:14 PM, eric-burdin wrote: Marriage has always been between A man and a woman. Even in societys that Embrace Homosexuality.

not in canada :D

Marriage is a Religious institution. There a re laws regulating it. But it is not a secular institution.

prove it

There is one other thing that pisses off religious poeple. It is that they want to get Married, In a Church, By a Priest, As Christians. This is like Serving BBQ pork ribs at a Barmitzfa, or Binge drinking in a Mosque.

and?

Not only is Homosexuality on the list of things you will Automatically go to hell for unless you change your ways (Murder, suicide, Anything sexual outside of marriage).

It is on the List of things God Has Smitten People for doing. The cities of Sodom and Gomore. Destroyed by Divine wrath for Butt Sex. If God Smites you For it, It is wrong.

dont you have a seperation between church and state or somehting preventing from making laws about religion?

At 2/26/09 05:47 PM, dySWN wrote:

At 2/26/09 03:50 PM, fortdeath wrote: I am a strict atheist.

How does that work? It's not like real athiesm has a dogma to it that you need to follow.

Kidding aside, I still don't see why we can't have civil unions for the state, marriages for the church, and just leave them at that.

as long as you take all legal implications out of marrage then im fine with it.

At 2/25/09 05:22 PM, studmuffin7 wrote:

NO ONE IS BORN GAY. WE ALL HAVE TEMPTATIONS, AND SOME PEOPLE ARE TEMPTED TO COMMIT ONE SIN MORE THAN ANOTHER, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN ANYONE IS BORN HELPLESS TO COMMIT THE SIN. ANYONE WHO EXPERIENCES HOMOSEXUAL TEMPTATIONS CAN OVERCOME THEM THE SAME WAY THE REST OF US DEAL WITH OUR VICES, THROUGH DISCIPLINE AND REPENTANCE. I WILL NEVER ACCEPT A DAY WHERE THOSE WHO PROUDLY COMMIT ACTIONS THAT THE BIBLE PLAINLY REFERS TO AS AN ABOMINATION WILL BE ACCEPTED AS MEMBERS OF SOCIETY. THEY BELONG IN PRISON ALONG WITH ALL THE PEDOPHILES, MURDERERS, AND OTHER LOW LIVES THAT COULD NOT OVERCOME THEIR TEMPTATIONS EITHER. PROBABLY SHOULD CASTRATE THEM TOO, TO PREVENT THEM FROM FURTHER COMMITTING SUCH AN ACT.

First of all, USING ALL CAPS IS FUCKING ANNOYING. See what I mean? Then, I'm pretty sure there was not even one part of that statement that wasn't ignorant/xenophobis. Throwing a person in jail for being gay? Castrating them? Using the Bible as a guide in a nation that clearly spells out the seperation of church and state? I'll never understand why so many members of the religion that declares you should love thy neighbor as thyself, are so intolerant of people that they don't like. That just seems incredibly self defeating.

Oh, and saying this is the "Final word" on this topic, really just shows that you can't back up your claims. You can hide behind the book that says it's okay to stone gays, women who didn't stay true to their husbands, and the occasional cripple, but I seriously doubt you can supply hard facts that gay people should be ostracized from society.

At 2/25/09 05:37 PM, Dekagaru wrote: May God have mercy should your son or daughter be gay. And from the way you sound you probably have latent homosexual tendencies yourself. I hope one day you come around and accept the way you were born.

He's either attempting satire or enhancing his spamming abilities.

Either way, it's very funny.

That is a twisted version of the Doctrine of seperation of church and state. Which is used to justify Actions against religious people far too often. "seperation of church and State" means that The church, as an instution, Has no direct political power. This means the Pope, a priest and such cannot Isseu dictates, and order people around.

At 2/28/09 02:30 PM, eric-burdin wrote: That is a twisted version of the Doctrine of seperation of church and state. Which is used to justify Actions against religious people far too often.

What does that have to do with gay marriage?

At 2/28/09 02:30 PM, eric-burdin wrote: That is a twisted version of the Doctrine of seperation of church and state. Which is used to justify Actions against religious people far too often. "seperation of church and State" means that The church, as an instution, Has no direct political power. This means the Pope, a priest and such cannot Isseu dictates, and order people around

When gay marriage passed, the churches still could have their power of not marrying anyone they wanted for any reason.

The gay marriage rights movement was always strictly a secular one.
But at the same time, what about the churches who want to marry gay people?

We're imposing our will on their ability to conduct their own religious motivations.

At 2/28/09 06:35 PM, fli wrote:

At 2/28/09 02:30 PM, eric-burdin wrote: That is a twisted version of the Doctrine of seperation of church and state. Which is used to justify Actions against religious people far too often. "seperation of church and State" means that The church, as an instution, Has no direct political power. This means the Pope, a priest and such cannot Isseu dictates, and order people around

When gay marriage passed, the churches still could have their power of not marrying anyone they wanted for any reason.

The gay marriage rights movement was always strictly a secular one.
But at the same time, what about the churches who want to marry gay people?

We're imposing our will on their ability to conduct their own religious motivations.

Yeah, that's pretty hilarious. Two people wants to get married. There is a church that wants to marry them. But no, people who live miles from that location, and has never seen the two people, nor the church, decides that this should not happen. Fantastic! : D