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Buoy
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 13:36:16 Reply

At 8/19/11 01:21 PM, LaForge wrote:
At 8/19/11 12:49 PM, SBB wrote: Free will

Can't possibly exist. I just realized this. It made me sad kinda.
Divulge your reasoning,

Everything in the universe is completely determined by physical laws, and it's kinda immodest to assert that humans have the ability to somehow go against causuality and do something that is not entirely determined by previous causes. Also that neuroscientists can predict a decision half a second before The person is consciously aware of themselves "making" that decision

because I think you're full of shit.

Do you have a problem with me LaForge?

Quarl
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 13:40:04 Reply

At 8/19/11 01:36 PM, SBB wrote:
Everything in the universe is completely determined by physical laws, and it's kinda immodest to assert that humans have the ability to somehow go against causuality and do something that is not entirely determined by previous causes. Also that neuroscientists can predict a decision half a second before The person is consciously aware of themselves "making" that decision

Im'a go flick my bean. Why? BECAUSE I CAN AND IMA ENJOY THE FUCK OUT OF IT. I don't give a fuck if it's in the grand script of things or not. At least my brain is simple enough to have the illusion of free will.

Debbie downer >:/

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Kirbyfemur
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 13:43:56 Reply

At 8/19/11 01:36 PM, SBB wrote:
Also that neuroscientists can predict a decision half a second before The person is consciously aware of themselves "making" that decision

So that means that we must constantly be changing our minds every 1/4 second in order to throw those bastards off then

Do you have a problem with me LaForge?

No, only with the fact that you thing the universe is completely determined before it happens. And the whole 1/2 second thing just means that the brain has processed it faster than the body can react. Don't entirely see how that makes free will non-exsistant. It would be like saying that someone could find jesus in a fucking bran muffin and then have a penis with a halo pop from it and have that just be normal.

InvisibleObserver
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 14:23:40 Reply

At 8/19/11 01:14 PM, Quarl wrote: Here's a sample of the intro for lulz tho.

Way to make a 30mb wav with 2 minutes of silence.


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Rahmemhotep
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 14:25:11 Reply

Always talk a shit load when I'm not around, eh?

doof doof kang tigga tigga doof kang tigga doof doof kang tigga tigga doof kang tigga doof doof kang tigga tigga doof doof kang tigga duddu kang tigga tigga bish, kang|||| shit made me laugh, go try it

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Best Thread Ever

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Quarl
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 14:35:52 Reply

At 8/19/11 02:23 PM, InvisibleObserver wrote:
At 8/19/11 01:14 PM, Quarl wrote: Here's a sample of the intro for lulz tho.
Way to make a 30mb wav with 2 minutes of silence.

You didn't have to listen to the silence :/


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Buoy
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 14:36:26 Reply

At 8/19/11 02:15 PM, LaForge wrote: The very fact that you're contemplating free will implies you have it.

Nope, I can explain it pretty well based on a rough outline of the causes that lead up to me making a claim against free will.

Saying some laws of physics determine what I'm going to do next seems absolutely silly to me.

Everything we see in the world, from the motion of stars and galaxies to interactions between tiny particles is (at least according to all scientific evidence ever and daily experience) completely determined by laws of physics, so why should somehow the actions of humans be the single exception?

I can plan what I'm going to do ahead of time, then change my mind at the last minute. That's called free will.

You change your mind due to some causes in the past- just because your thoughts change it doesn't neccesarily mean they're free

Chronamut
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 14:38:36 Reply

it's not that you don't have free will - it's just that "fate" knows you so well as to pinpoint you down to every single decision you will ever make.

So that everything you experience in life, every bit of education that says "I know this, so I will do that" - is predetermined, right down into your dna.

so it;s like one of those books where it tells you to choose an action and go to that page - it's all within that book - it knows what you will choose, and that regardless you will achieve certain outcomes.

So just do whatever, stop worrying.

Back-From-Purgatory
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 14:40:26 Reply

At 8/19/11 02:36 PM, SBB wrote: (Snip)
You change your mind due to some causes in the past- just because your thoughts change it doesn't neccesarily mean they're free

I just gotta say, this is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen.

Keep it up!


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 14:49:04 Reply

free will

i would argue that the possible illusion of free will is the matter of how the universe really is - deterministic or not deterministic. as far as we can tell now, it's not, but there are way too many underlying factors of how the universe is built that we simply can't tell. i prefer to live with the possible illusion, however.


Wakka wakka

BenjaminTibbetts
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 14:51:58 Reply

At 8/19/11 04:56 AM, InvisibleObserver wrote: Can't sleep

People stress me out, can I get an amen?

Amen.


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Breed
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 15:10:24 Reply

Free Will

mleh

-----------------------

On another note, this is the most inspiring video about a composer I've ever seen.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 15:14:49 Reply

At 8/19/11 03:10 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: On another note, this is the most inspiring video about a composer I've ever seen.

Wow, talk about natural music...


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Syztm
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 16:26:57 Reply

Pukkelpop

So there's this huge festival near where I live, which was supposed to run until Sunday. It got cancelled today however, because this happened. 5 people died and 70 got wounded. Now that is some scary shit :/


New tune: Yag

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 16:32:08 Reply

At 8/19/11 02:40 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote: I just gotta say, this is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever seen.

Keep it up!

You didn't even address it. Simply dismissing something as ridiculous without pointing out the flaws in it isn't a valid argument.

I had to rush the post though so it came off as a bit vague, what I meant is you are ultimately not in control of the causes that cause you to change your mind. It seemed from what I was quoting that the phenomenon that people's opinions aren't rigid and never-changing, somehow proved free will exists.

At 8/19/11 03:05 PM, LaForge wrote: This is a bullshit argument. "Oh, gravity and inertia causes planets to do things, let's correlate that in a ridiculous fashion to our every day lives!" It sounds like you're saying if you can't control one thing, you can't control anything.

I didn't say say "planets are governed by gravity and inertia" or anything of the like, I said
everything we know of, on every conceivable scale, is governed by physical laws. Some examples from our every day lives: the way dominos fall, the way pressure waves (sound) are created from the falling dominos, the deformation of skin when you stick a needle in it and the electrochemical reactions that happen in the nervous system to register that needle prick as pain, which may or may not trigger an emotional response depending on the surroundings, experiences, genes and tons of other causes that you're ultimately not in control of yourself - can all be explained through a set of physical, causual laws.

Which is why I think it's silly to think that whether you end up choosing milk or orange juice is somehow removed from causuality, as opposed to every single other thing in the universe that we know of.

Buoy
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 16:48:32 Reply

Btw I did choose this topic to discuss out of the blue mostly to see how heated the discussion would get. Which I realize is kinda like trolling but not really since my opinion is real. But then again if I'm right about free will then the opinion isn't really real is it. Fuck

Buoy
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 17:06:22 Reply

(thereby proving free will and disproving everything I said)

jpbear
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 17:08:29 Reply

So how did organic matter and cells come intro existence again?

oh waaaiiitttttt
Knoxius
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 17:08:35 Reply

At 8/19/11 02:38 PM, Chronamut wrote: So that everything you experience in life, every bit of education that says "I know this, so I will do that" - is predetermined, right down into your dna.

i was talking to some guy the other day, and I vaguely remember him talking about how he was at 'harmony' or something. hes a bit of a kook, but his ideas were pretty cool. he went on about how you need to ignore that the past and future are existent, because they are not now (present), so they do not matter.. suppose what im getting at is that, sure, regularly everything is determined by past events or predicted future events, but if you get past that (which would take quite a bit of effort, mind you), you might just have free will.

Buoy
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 17:19:03 Reply

At 8/19/11 05:08 PM, LaForge wrote:
At 8/19/11 05:06 PM, SBB wrote: (thereby proving free will and disproving everything I said)
Nah I think that was this part:

At 8/19/11 04:48 PM, SBB wrote: Btw I did choose this topic to discuss out of the blue

I use the word choose because it would be silly to say "I was caused to do this because of an unconceivably large series of past causes that are out of my control that ends with me having the illusion of independently choosing to do it" every single time.

MrSaint
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 17:41:27 Reply

Knoxius, so your friends point is that if we disregard our past and stop caring about the future, then we may have free will?

Also, I think that free will exists (PLS DON'T BASH ME). We can change our decisions, we can fill our damn heads with different thoughts. I doubt that the origin of some random thoughts in your brain depends or can be explained by physics. Just my two cents, care about them or not.

Kudos to SBB for getting us into such a cool discussion

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 18:26:26 Reply

I like to believe that free will doesn't exist so that i don't have to take responsibility for my actions :D


Example of my singing here

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 19:10:56 Reply

East West PLAY

Do any of you guys know anything about VST coding? Is there a reason that this is always the exception to compatabilities...for example FL finally got 64-bit plug-in support--works for every 64-bit plugin EXCEPT Play. Receptor is the same case, works for all VSTs EXCEPT Play.

What the hell are the soundsonline developers doing to make it not work with so many things? Is it the extra security they have using the iLok? I'm going fucking insane. Spent the last year of my life trying to optimize my usage of this, and I've invested too much time and money to go back

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 20:25:32 Reply

At 8/19/11 07:10 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: East West PLAY

Do any of you guys know anything about VST coding? Is there a reason that this is always the exception to compatabilities...for example FL finally got 64-bit plug-in support--works for every 64-bit plugin EXCEPT Play. Receptor is the same case, works for all VSTs EXCEPT Play.

What the hell are the soundsonline developers doing to make it not work with so many things? Is it the extra security they have using the iLok? I'm going fucking insane. Spent the last year of my life trying to optimize my usage of this, and I've invested too much time and money to go back

Everyone is always whining and praising eastwest at the same time.
someone needs to bring up the competition on eastwest. They practically have a classical writing vst monopoly. Seriously some people could make serious money if they made a better competing product

jarrydn
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 20:33:46 Reply

If we knew the precise location, direction and speed of every single particle in the entire universe, we could quite easily (assuming that we had a massive computer) calculate everything that will happen at any point in the future. We already do it with big "particles" (we've been calculating the movement of planets, moons, stars and meteors for millennia), there's no reason why we couldn't do it with every single tiny discrete particle that comprises the universe (including ourselves)

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 20:40:25 Reply

At 8/19/11 08:33 PM, jarrydn wrote: If we knew the precise... ...there's no reason why we couldn't do it with every single tiny discrete particle that comprises the universe (including ourselves)

Are you saying that mankind will have the ability to predict the future with sufficient technology?

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 20:48:56 Reply

At 8/19/11 08:40 PM, brokendeck wrote:
At 8/19/11 08:33 PM, jarrydn wrote: If we knew the precise... ...there's no reason why we couldn't do it with every single tiny discrete particle that comprises the universe (including ourselves)
Are you saying that mankind will have the ability to predict the future with sufficient technology?

This is the second time today I link to an xkcd comic. With the right amount of technology, anything is probably possible :p


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jarrydn
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 20:50:48 Reply

At 8/19/11 08:40 PM, brokendeck wrote:
At 8/19/11 08:33 PM, jarrydn wrote: If we knew the precise... ...there's no reason why we couldn't do it with every single tiny discrete particle that comprises the universe (including ourselves)
Are you saying that mankind will have the ability to predict the future with sufficient technology?

Nah, "prediction" implies that there might be other possibilities. We would simply be able to know what would happen in the future.

However, at least with our current understanding, it would more than likely require a computer slightly more powerful than our universe.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 20:53:54 Reply

At 8/19/11 08:25 PM, jpbear wrote: Everyone is always whining and praising eastwest at the same time.
someone needs to bring up the competition on eastwest. They practically have a classical writing vst monopoly. Seriously some people could make serious money if they made a better competing product

There are others that are equal quality. Vienna orchestra is one but its pricier. A lot of stuff like percussion, choir and strings have other good competitors too: 8dio epic frame drums and reqiuem. LA Scoring strings. But east west has the highest quality samples hands down, especially for its price (however expensive that may be). I spoke to a developer from Muse Research today about it and he said their development team is really small and so it takes them forever to go company to company working out compatibilities and stuff. Take Hollywood Brass for example, they spent a year on post production just to implement an interpretation script and demos for it.

TLDR; They need to hire more people but I'm guessing they put all their funding into more products instead

At 8/19/11 08:40 PM, brokendeck wrote:
Are you saying that mankind will have the ability to predict the future with sufficient technology?

We already can. Weather forecasts, astronomical events, life expectancy. The more we know the more we can know, basic technological advancement theory.

midimachine
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2011-08-19 21:18:16 Reply

At 8/19/11 08:53 PM, LogicalDefiance wrote: We already can. Weather forecasts, astronomical events, life expectancy. The more we know the more we can know, basic technological advancement theory.

These things, to me, are more like "estimating the future". We can do a lot with extrapolation of data and speculation but it's no crystal ball!


p.s. i am gay