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loansindi
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 17:39:03 Reply

Life

Life is shitty.

pr0ded
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 17:41:15 Reply

At 7/18/09 04:44 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote: What he forgot, in my opinion, is that mankind is part of nature as well.

he forgot your opinion which is most likely a fact?

and it's removed of human influence.

i love that one above and this one, and the spun quotes, i bet he influences stuff by moving his had, theres a change

"Through his study and experimentation, Cage came to the conclusion that there is no distinction between sound and silence, music and non-music, humanity and nature"

you probably wouldnt like oldschool industrial music

to sum up i basically appreciate good work that took skill and patience not artsy crap.

there are pieces of art that have all of those

philosophy i bet your firned would appreciate stuff if he was more in tune

and his piano music is more listenable compared

pr0ded
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 17:59:27 Reply

if you had 20/20 vision and your visual acuity were to increase, and now you notice more details, and now you are more aware, instead of airbrushing it out, if you want to talk delusional look at the photos you take of yourself

maybe read a book called 'food of the gods'

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 18:08:21 Reply

CRAMP IN MY NECK
somehow i have had this debilitating cramp in my neck from sleeping weird and i have had it for days. i cant really turn my head much and i have to roll out of bed since i cant sit up.. I would do just about anything for relief from this. i feel like every nerve in my neck and between my shoulder-blades is screaming in pain. i have tried massaging it and heat therapy and nothing works. its not getting any better either

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 18:38:58 Reply

At 7/18/09 05:41 PM, pr0ded wrote:
At 7/18/09 04:44 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote: vadvdbsbsb

Couldn't have said it better myself .

At 7/18/09 04:31 PM, SymbolCymbal wrote: like the photo of the urinal. Really yes i guess you can call it art. But does it take any skill?

Actually, it wasn't a photo of a urinal. It was a urinal... that is if your referring to Duchamp's "Fountain." He had some good work too. When it comes right down to it, opinions are based on ignorance. John Cage and Duchamp worked in their own mediums and received plenty of controversy in their days. Today, they might be regarded as heroes depending on what circles you follow.

At 7/18/09 03:47 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote: As well, my older brother is a Philosophy major, and finds Cage to be full of shit.

I'm a person and I find you to be full of shit. That wasn't a fact, it was an opinion but I stand by it. btw, you're talking to an art major looking towards education. I could end up fondling the minds of your children. Scary isn't it?


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 18:57:19 Reply

loltanks

anyone remembers them? they first emerged in the old AF-lounge, noone knows where they came from... IF YOU DO REMEMBER THEM, COME WITH ME - WE NEED YOUR EXPERTICE!

TEH LOLTANKS AER BACKH!!!


Join the Newgrounds Battlefield 3 Platoon (for PC)! DON'T ASK WHAT YOUR GAME CAN DO FOR YOU, ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR, UH, NEWGROUNDS! ON BATTLEFIELD 3. eh...

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 19:10:20 Reply

At 7/18/09 06:57 PM, Rucklo wrote: loltanks

anyone remembers them? they first emerged in the old AF-lounge, noone knows where they came from... IF YOU DO REMEMBER THEM, COME WITH ME - WE NEED YOUR EXPERTICE!

TEH LOLTANKS AER BACKH!!!

Lol tanks were the shit back in the day.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 19:16:36 Reply

...-------
//.......... 8======D
||... lol ..||
/------------\
\_o_o_o__/

PENORDICK TANK!!!!!!!!

EmperorCharlemagne
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 19:39:49 Reply

"Couldn't have said it better myself" Quari? I fear for your typing skills and articulation.

The Debate Continues?

At 7/18/09 05:41 PM, pr0ded wrote:
At 7/18/09 04:44 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote: What he forgot, in my opinion, is that mankind is part of nature as well.
he forgot your opinion which is most likely a fact?

My opinion is not 'humans are a part of nature' since that is a fact, but rather, my opinion is what I think Cage forgot about (or more accurately, did not even pay attention to) music and its relationship with humanity. Pointing out a misinterpretation of a sentence doesn't get people very much anywhere.

At 7/18/09 05:41 PM, pr0ded wrote:
and it's removed of human influence.
i love that one above and this one, and the spun quotes, i bet he influences stuff by moving his had, theres a change

"Through his study and experimentation, Cage came to the conclusion that there is no distinction between sound and silence, music and non-music, humanity and nature"

you probably wouldnt like oldschool industrial music

Maybe, maybe not. I pretty much tolerate most things, musically speaking
'Moving his had'? What? Huh? Kweh?
And I am of the mindset that there very much IS a distinction, and trying to act like there is no such distinction is folly.

At 7/18/09 05:41 PM, pr0ded wrote: philosophy i bet your firned would appreciate stuff if he was more in tune

and his piano music is more listenable compared

I could totally understand you better if you didn't write in fragments, and if ya followed the whole subject-verb-object kinda format.

And a wiki link is not quite 'philosophy'. Kierkegaard's Either/Or is a bit closer to that ideal.

John Cage works off of, philosophically speaking, the Parmenian Paradox, which states that if something is not changing then it is not alive and it is stagnant. That is the core foundation of all of his music and philosophies thereof. If you accept that, then things fall into place quite nicely for him.

However, he ignores quite completely the Heraclecian Paradox, which states that if everything is changing, then nothing really exists, because there is no set basis or standard for perception of reality to go off of.

Both of these are paradoxes because they simply don't work in the real-world we live in, yet theoretically, they make sense. John Cage took one idea and stuck with it adamantly, ignoring the other side of reality. He did what worked for him, but on philosophical grounds, it was not very sound. He did not take very well to answering questions about his methods, incidentally.

Quari, if you think the idea of you teaching any potential children of mine (even putting aside the distance and improbability of it all) is frightening then... Well, it's not. My bro has a reason for thinking Cage's ideasare full of shit, as opposed to just blindly saying "this sucks". Of course, he totally hates the music too, which I tend to differ slightly (some of the sonatas and interludes are not that bad and have merit).

pr0ded, you seem to think I'm delusional (that's what I gleaned from your second post, which is really hard to decipher for grammatical reasons, and spelling reasons), but if I'm delusional, then you're kinda acting self-righteous. Yes yes, John Cage is totally like the giants in Food of the Gods: So misunderstood, so misunderstood, wah wah. I understand him fine, and I disagree with him greatly. And 'think he's full of shit'.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 20:07:34 Reply

At 7/18/09 07:39 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote:
What he forgot, in my opinion, is that mankind is part of nature as well.
My opinion is not 'humans are a part of nature' since that is a fact, but rather, my opinion is what I think Cage forgot about (or more accurately, did not even pay attention to) music and its relationship with humanity. Pointing out a misinterpretation of a sentence doesn't get people very much anywhere.

At 7/18/09 05:41 PM, pr0ded wrote:
and it's removed of human influence.
i love that one above and this one, and the spun quotes, i bet he influences stuff by moving his had, theres a change

"Through his study and experimentation, Cage came to the conclusion that there is no distinction between sound and silence, music and non-music, humanity and nature"

you probably wouldnt like oldschool industrial music
And I am of the mindset that there very much IS a distinction, and trying to act like there is no such distinction is folly.

silence doesnt exist, there are always sounds, sounds that you cant even hear, this is the audio portal, audio being sounds humans can hear




And a wiki link is not quite 'philosophy'. Kierkegaard's Either/Or is a bit closer to that ideal.

an outdated book vs a subject?
look at how they merge
you could have poor sensory perception and have a degree in whatever, thus his opinion isnt worth anything

John Cage works off of, philosophically speaking, the Parmenian Paradox, which states that if something is not changing then it is not alive and it is stagnant. That is the core foundation of all of his music and philosophies thereof. If you accept that, then things fall into place quite nicely for him.

However, he ignores quite completely the Heraclecian Paradox,

spell it right, or does it even exist


He did what worked for him, but on philosophical grounds, it was not very sound. He did not take very well to answering questions about his methods, incidentally.

except those two ideas of changing arent related
he influenced industrial musicians, which did the same thing but it was post freedom of speech movment/social revolution


Yes yes, John Cage is totally like the giants in Food of the Gods:

wrong book

also i read he practiced a macrobiotic diet, a term invented by some philosopher

drink some more coke, its good for you

EmperorCharlemagne
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 20:26:58 Reply

You're the one who said " read 'food of the gods' "

Remember that post? Last page?

The two ideas of change ARE related, in one states that if something doesn't change, then it isn't alive or doesn't exist, and the other states the opposite, that if something changes constantly, then it doesn't really exist since it is never in one concrete form.

An 'outdated book'? You are speaking out of your ass, as that is an ignorant statement. That's like saying "Thus Spake Zarathustra" is an outdated book. Both have had and continue to have a profound impact on modern thought, so to say that one is 'outdated' shows that you probably didn't even read the book. Studying philosophy doesn't make you a smarter or more valid critic, but if someone says something, you can scrutinize it more closely than just say weakly "It's his opinion, so it can't really be wrong."

Since you keep on bringing up industrial music, I can only suppose that that is your favorite genre, and that I am attacking your 'hero' or 'pseudo-founder of the genre' or something like that. Because your responses are bitter and childish in tone. Why would it matter to me what the industrial musicians did? I am not talking about them, so it doesn't matter. I am talking about the American composer John Cage and what I feel about him, not about the 60s early Industrial composers. Why you keep on bringing them up is beyond me, because it's not like bringing them up is proving a point.

I am proud that he followed Ohsawa's philosophy of health; good for him! But you're talking about different things entirely. Do you think Atkins is a philosopher too? I guess so is Sara Lee as well.

I am quite aware that technically speaking 'silence' does not exist. Why should that matter in a piece of music? Silence, in terms of music, can be synonymous with 'rests' or 'where the instrument isn't playing." That's not the gripe I have with him. The gripe is more of his attitude to all of the music that wasn't aleatory, aka 'chance music'. He treated it as if it were beneath his concern and of no merit (because they were human inventions).

Also, it's not like Cage was the first to write a silent piece:
http://solomonsmusic.net/Allais_silence.
gif


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 20:41:38 Reply

industrial started in the 70's

related? even though this theory doesnt seem to exist, or you spelt it terribly wrong

You're the one who said " read 'food of the gods' "

yea, i said you're probably thinking of a different book with the same title, think

profound impact on modern thought,

the social revolution has done more, spearheaded by perception enhancing drugs

am proud that he followed Ohsawa's philosophy of health; good for him! But you're talking about different things entirely. Do you think Atkins is a philosopher too? I guess so is Sara Lee as well.

i said the person who created the term, Hippocrates, look below

Why should that matter in a piece of music

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric _music#Origins

music and sounds or noise are the same, if you look to there for information on macrobiotics, look at that link

this isnt the 1800's in regards to music, rules have changed as people starting hearing things clearer about 50 years ago

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 21:03:13 Reply

Yes the social revolution and those types of thought movements have their roots in the ideas put forth in the post-Enlightment era, the Existentialist movement (started by Kierkegaard). and the other late-19th century philosophers. Marijuana, LSD and ecstasy didn't shape modern thought, despite your insistence of the contrary. I know you might supposedly love your drugs, but they are hardly thatrevolutionary.

I was wondering myself whether you were referring to Hippocrates or Ohsawa. Hippocrates was not so much a philosopher as he was a surgeon and a doctor. Since you said yourself that 'the term was invented by a philosopher', I assumed that you could ONLY mean Ohsawa, who fit the bill.

I never denied that the 'rules have stayed the same' or that music should remain in the 1800's. Where have I said that? The answer: I haven't.

I personally feel that while a move away towards diversity is a good thing in music, the avant-garde has become as choking and constrictive as the types of music it was trying to break free of. It's a common story. People may 'hear things clearer', but then you have contemporaries of John Cage, like the famous composer Pierre Boulez, who essentially said thus:
"If you do not write avant garde music, you are worthless"

These two trying to turn music into nothing but math formulas and chance operations does not seem to do the art-form any justice.

Cage found perfection in silence, and thought that it was the perfect type of 'natural' music. Yet people continue to write music after Cage. So obviously, it was not the perfect music.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 21:21:18 Reply

Cage

At 7/18/09 08:07 PM, pr0ded wrote: silence doesnt exist, there are always sounds, sounds that you cant even hear

Silence doesn't exist? Have you ever been in between mountains and hills? In a dead point where there's nothing but pure grass and dead trees? You can't see the sky, you can't tell where is north and south, and you hear nothing. Only your own footsteps, but you hear nothing if you stay still.
There was probably an animal that moved somewhere that caused noise, but if I couldn't hear that then it was silence for me.

About Cage, I agree completely with SymbolCymbal. It's not that I don't like him for pointing out the obvious, I don't like the people who consider his music or words to be innovative.
But hey, each to its own.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 21:22:45 Reply

At 7/18/09 09:03 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote: thatrevolutionary.

compare the 40's to the 60's, the music, the fashion, and society

:I assumed that you could ONLY mean Ohsawa, who fit the bill.
so being considered the father of medicine and turning it into its own branch which has its on philosophy isnt philosophical?


I never denied that the 'rules have stayed the same' or that music should remain in the 1800's. Where have I said that? The answer: I haven't.
"If you do not write avant garde music, you are worthless"

maybe because its novel?

These two trying to turn music into nothing but math formulas and chance operations does not seem to do the art-form any justice.

ehh

Cage found perfection in silence, and thought that it was the perfect type of 'natural' music. Yet people continue to write music after Cage. So obviously, it was not the perfect music.

they continue to write music after "natural music", do you think perfect is the best and nothing else can be considered perfect

ehh i dont really care john cage, and he still composed 'regular' music along side that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheap_Imita tion

you also dont reply to anytihng so the discussion gets smaller and smaller, narrowing it down in an effort to get 'the last word'

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 21:38:24 Reply

Just because I don't use the quote button doesn't mean I'm not replying to everything. In fact, I am, without quoting you. But since you seem to think I'm not.

At 7/18/09 09:22 PM, pr0ded wrote:
At 7/18/09 09:03 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote: thatrevolutionary.
compare the 40's to the 60's, the music, the fashion, and society

Ok, I did. Thanks for that mental exercise. Totally helped the discussion. Totally related to the discussion at hand too. You're pretty good!

My turn!

I want you to compare the colors red, orange, and blue. Annnnd go!


I assumed that you could ONLY mean Ohsawa, who fit the bill.
so being considered the father of medicine and turning it into its own branch which has its on philosophy isnt philosophical?

Do you compare the works of Plato to the works of Hippocrates? Hippocrates has a philosophy of methodology, a philosophy behind his practice, whereas Plato is a philosophy of metaphysics, which is different.


I never denied that the 'rules have stayed the same' or that music should remain in the 1800's. Where have I said that? The answer: I haven't.
"If you do not write avant garde music, you are worthless"
maybe because its novel?

Are you high? What is that even supposed to mean? Should we be obsessed with doing something because it's novel? Is that the sole motivation for our actions.

These two trying to turn music into nothing but math formulas and chance operations does not seem to do the art-form any justice.
ehh

Have you ever heard of a tone-row before?

Cage found perfection in silence, and thought that it was the perfect type of 'natural' music. Yet people continue to write music after Cage. So obviously, it was not the perfect music.
they continue to write music after "natural music", do you think perfect is the best and nothing else can be considered perfect

Did I say so? I didn't.

ehh i dont really care john cage, and he still composed 'regular' music along side that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheap_Imita tion

Can you please spell and use correct grammar, because you make frustratingly little sense with the way you type. Is English your first language?

The problem is that you have yet to substantiate any of your points whatsoever, and all you do is respond to mine with poorly-constructed sentences, non-sequiturs, and wikipedia links. Great job, you can use google. I'm proud of you.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 21:44:14 Reply

Ok, I did. Thanks for that mental exercise. Totally helped the discussion. Totally related to the discussion at hand too. You're pretty good!

if you compare its obvious drugs have influenced all 3 of those

What is that even supposed to mean? Should we be obsessed with doing something because it's novel? Is that the sole motivation for our actions.

try making something that hasnt been done before

Did I say so? I didn't.

Yet people continue to write music after Cage. So obviously, it was not the perfect music.

Great job, you can use google. I'm proud of you.

you can too with regards to macrobiotics and the search term "perception enhancing" which yielded results lsd and ecstasy

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 21:57:43 Reply

You also seem to forget the obvious hypocrisy of Boulex' statement, then.

"If you do not write music like us, you are worthless"

They are not saying "be novel", he is saying "be like us."
Which is exactly the opposite.

Did you catch that? I am positive you didn't.

The world does not need musicians insanely trying to be 'novel'. It needs musicians trying to be thoughtful. And that doesn't come from adhering to statements like Boulez's or Cage's.

If you think that drugs are the only major influence on society, you are a bigger idiot than I thought. How can someone think that, honestly? You obviously are a gigantic stoner, or something, because anyone with half a brain can see that other things besides drugs account for societal changes. My god, that statement just screamsignorance. You are only seeing the shadows on the cave with that perception.

And anyone with half a brain and a rudimentary knowledge of drugs KNOWS that LSD and ecstasy are perception-enhancing, dumb-ass. I don't have to throw out wiki links for some things I KNOW. As far as the Ohsawa is concerned, I wanted to be sure that you weren't speaking out your ass, which in some ways you weren't, but in others, you were.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 22:10:00 Reply

you said "avant garde or nothing"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-garde _music

cant be the same when that 'genre' music isnt similiar from one another

If you think that drugs are the only major influence on society

never said that?

"More generally, the term "social revolution" may be used to refer to a massive change in society, for instance the French Revolution, the American Civil Rights Movement and the 1960 hippie or counterculture reformation on religious belief, personal identity, freedom of speech, music and arts, fashion, alternative technology or environmentalism and decentralised medi"

boo hoo

no you dont, you never knew intially, other you wouldnt have brought up mdma, because that hardly is one that does that. either way that information isn't anywhere, especially in those words

i intially say have a brain the you have to copy me while being a hypocrite about google

no more

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 23:42:32 Reply

Can you please type when you are not high? Or stupid? Or both?

People might understand what you are trying to say, because it stands, try reading the words you type out loud. No one can understand them.

But enough of your shit. Moving on.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 23:43:46 Reply

I am making this crystal fucking clear to all of yall.

I make back ground music for flash games. Not fucking masterpieces. Stop regulating music as if I were a serious musician I'm just here to make loops for hentai! lol.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 23:45:16 Reply

At 7/18/09 11:43 PM, Syntrus wrote: I am making this crystal fucking clear to all of yall.

I make back ground music for flash games. Not fucking masterpieces. Stop regulating music as if I were a serious musician I'm just here to make loops for hentai! lol.

But there's no such thing as serious music. There's good music and bad music. Nothing else.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 23:46:47 Reply

At 7/18/09 11:45 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote:
At 7/18/09 11:43 PM, Syntrus wrote: I am making this crystal fucking clear to all of yall.

I make back ground music for flash games. Not fucking masterpieces. Stop regulating music as if I were a serious musician I'm just here to make loops for hentai! lol.
But there's no such thing as serious music. There's good music and bad music. Nothing else.

Well stop calling my good music bad music without a decent explanation. Insert hentai comment here.

I'm not referring to you kind emperor.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 23:47:50 Reply

I'm too tired to argue anymore.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 23:52:19 Reply

At 7/18/09 11:47 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote: I'm too tired to argue anymore.

What is there to argue about?


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-18 23:55:02 Reply

Arguing

At 7/18/09 11:52 PM, Syntrus wrote:
At 7/18/09 11:47 PM, EmperorCharlemagne wrote: I'm too tired to argue anymore.
What is there to argue about?

I am just talking about in general, since I just spent myself on an argument with someone very incoherent.

In this specific case, nothing to argue about. But in the general sense, I feel compelled to argue with someone when they something especially ignorant. Usually I can be pretty laid-back, that is, until someone says something really dumb and defends it as truth without backing it up. That's when I get a little angry.

That's about the only time I like to argue, as I usually tend to avoid conflict the other times.


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Syntrus
Syntrus
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-19 00:02:05 Reply

Thats another thing stop acting like elitists your on a second rate hentai site.


Syntrus keeping it real with fake computer music since 2006
The Madness of Kid Triangle

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Envy
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-19 00:05:05 Reply

The only thing that bugs me is when people try to tell you what the genre of your song is... Sure it FITS the categories of a specific genre, but doesn't that just put more boundaries on music? Art is supposed to reflect your freedoms on how you can take something from your mind and put it somewhere so its audible or visible to other people. I think the last thing that needs to happen is for us to taken that art and say no, YOUR work is wrong, it should be like THIS.

>8(


At 3/27/11 10:22 PM, sugarsimon wrote:
the brilliant songs who create a production for music
Wat

EmperorCharlemagne
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-19 00:16:04 Reply

At 7/19/09 12:02 AM, Syntrus wrote: Thats another thing stop acting like elitists your on a second rate hentai site.

Can't argue with that!

The Audio Forum Lounge


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Envy
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2009-07-19 00:25:42 Reply

At 7/18/09 03:48 AM, cornandbeans wrote: I REALLY cannot get over how much I despise lady gaga. Her her songs are garbage and her lyrics are atrocious. Not to mention she looks like an astro-slut.

Is anyone else scared about the future of music?

Oh, I see she wore her small eyelashes.


At 3/27/11 10:22 PM, sugarsimon wrote:
the brilliant songs who create a production for music
Wat