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Back-From-Purgatory
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 16:24:22 Reply

At 1/7/13 04:16 PM, AeroMusic wrote: I can't see any new posts wahhh - is this just me?? last I can see is step from 3 hours ago :(

Because I deleted a couple posts and the last post thing doesn't update when I do that.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 16:28:33 Reply

At 1/7/13 04:24 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote:
At 1/7/13 04:16 PM, AeroMusic wrote: I can't see any new posts wahhh - is this just me?? last I can see is step from 3 hours ago :(
Because I deleted a couple posts and the last post thing doesn't update when I do that.

how dar u u censorship lovin btard fuckin fag


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 16:30:20 Reply

At 1/7/13 04:28 PM, Sequenced wrote: how dar u u censorship lovin btard fuckin fag

I censored nothing, 1 was a link to some foreign download site, and the other was the reply to it... of which he wanted deleted anyways.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 16:53:23 Reply

Does anybody here like metal? More specifically brutal death metal or "slam" death metal? I feel I might be wasting time posting any of my new stuff here as nobody will like it :*(

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 17:05:06 Reply

At 1/7/13 12:55 PM, Step wrote: Ooh, an Internet discussion on religion. I've never seen that one before.

At 1/7/13 11:48 AM, Mich wrote: I respect people's right to believe whatever they want. I don't necessarily respect the beliefs. And I do not condemn basing morality and actions to do with other people's rights and welfare on baseless beliefs.

You're free the believe as you will, but don't impede on others' happiness through it. If you do that you can fuck right off in my book.
This is pretty much my mindset too. What I also don't like is when people impose their religions on other people. I'm all for freedom of speech and whatnot but when you start almost forcing your religion on other people, then it gets irritating.

My reason for saying this stems most strongly from the fact that schools here force you to go to mass. Every Friday all the school is forced to go to mass regardless of their beliefs, and if we skip mass we risk getting a suspension. Some 'special occasion' masses take up to 2 and a half hours... and it was even worse back in secondary, we had to go to mass everyday!

I might be making a big deal over nothing but it's honestly boring listening to all that for someone who thinks it's all crap that cannot be scientifically proven, and nerve-wrecking to know that I could be doing so much more useful and fulfilling stuff for me than sit through those rituals and prayers that I know by heart now.

Yeah, that stuff annoys the hell (pun intended) out of me too. Children will believe anything an adult will tell them is fact, and do what they're told (basically). It's just how they work and what makes them survive. Adults then just abuse the mindless acceptance to feed them the religious dogma, rather than teaching the children how to think. Thereby completely misguiding and disadvantaging them. I'm fairly certain a lot less people would be theists if they didn't hear about any of those concepts before they were, say¸ 20 years old.

We should be teaching people how to critically analyze claims, require evidence, and dismiss any claims that can't be backed up whatsoever. We should be relaying the scientific facts that have been discovered, along with evidence and explanations on how the facts follow through from that evidence. This as opposed to teaching writings as fact from a millennia-old book that has been translated and modified countless times over that time.

I am totally okay with the bible an the quran and what have you being read in schools, so long as it is in a historical/cultural context. It would work as part of history classes on culture, that is, not using these books as actual accounts of history, but as a part of old culture.

Also, this is a little bit relevant, a video on open-mindedness, which discusses being critical of things.

asdf I could ramble about this stuff for ages
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 17:05:21 Reply

At 1/7/13 12:55 PM, Step wrote:
My reason for saying this stems most strongly from the fact that schools here force you to go to mass. Every Friday all the school is forced to go to mass regardless of their beliefs, and if we skip mass we risk getting a suspension. Some 'special occasion' masses take up to 2 and a half hours... and it was even worse back in secondary, we had to go to mass everyday!

I thought you were american for a second and was like, holy shit what is this is unconstitutionality.

Then i realized you were Maltese -__-

At 1/7/13 04:06 AM, Mich wrote:
At 1/7/13 12:34 AM, The-iMortal wrote: Oh yeah - tribal culture! The culture where thousands would be sacrificed per year to satisfy their "gods". Fascinating, right? YOU BAD, BAD CHRISTIANS. HOW DARE YOU RUIN OUR CULTURE!
Because christians never killed people. Burning pagans at the stake, crusades, ...

Organized religion generally brings more grief than anything. It teaches ignorance and hate.

Except mayan and aztec cultures are praised while christianity has apologized countless times for their mindset a thousand years ago.

In elementary school in Texas we spent more time learning about native americans and their culture than all the other world cultures combined.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 17:05:27 Reply

At 1/7/13 04:53 PM, AJtheRipper wrote: Does anybody here like metal?

Do I?! I LOVE...

...More specifically brutal death metal or "slam" death metal?

... awww damn... of all the subgenres of metal you had to pick, it had to be the one I'm not at all fond of.

I feel I might be wasting time posting any of my new stuff here as nobody will like it :*(

There are plenty of metalheads on NG that like Death Metal, just check out the heavy metal section, tons of growly growls, screamitty screams and guitars tuned so low that it's nearly impossible to tell if they're chugging or just wailing their guitar against the PA.

Soz though... I'm more into the melodic kinds of metal.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 17:19:58 Reply

At 1/7/13 05:05 PM, Mich wrote:
Yeah, that stuff annoys the hell (pun intended) out of me too. Children will believe anything an adult will tell them is fact, and do what they're told (basically). It's just how they work and what makes them survive. Adults then just abuse the mindless acceptance to feed them the religious dogma, rather than teaching the children how to think. Thereby completely misguiding and disadvantaging them. I'm fairly certain a lot less people would be theists if they didn't hear about any of those concepts before they were, sayÃ'¸ 20 years old.

Italy has a ridiculously low church attendance rate yet has confirmation rates extremely high (a catholic ritual about age 15 in italy)

Probably about 1 in 50 people at age 18 still attend mass. (at most)

Proof that teaching things at a young age does not come close to brainwashing.

We should be teaching people how to critically analyze claims, require evidence, and dismiss any claims that can't be backed up whatsoever. We should be relaying the scientific facts that have been discovered, along with evidence and explanations on how the facts follow through from that evidence. This as opposed to teaching writings as fact from a millennia-old book that has been translated and modified countless times over that time.

When has the bible been used as fact or a history textbook in the past 30 years lol

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 17:22:22 Reply

At 1/7/13 04:53 PM, AJtheRipper wrote: Does anybody here like metal? More specifically brutal death metal or "slam" death metal? I feel I might be wasting time posting any of my new stuff here as nobody will like it :*(

I do, go post it, I'll even try to review it. ;)

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 17:23:31 Reply

At 1/7/13 05:05 PM, Mich wrote: We should be teaching people how to critically analyze claims, require evidence, and dismiss any claims that can't be backed up whatsoever. We should be relaying the scientific facts that have been discovered, along with evidence and explanations on how the facts follow through from that evidence. This as opposed to teaching writings as fact from a millennia-old book that has been translated and modified countless times over that time.

You honestly couldn't have said anything that made more sense than that paragraph right there. I have made arrangements for a sizeable shipment of delicious home-made cookies to be sent your way.

At 1/7/13 04:53 PM, AJtheRipper wrote: Does anybody here like metal?

*raises hand*

More specifically brutal death metal or "slam" death metal?

*lowers hand*


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 17:42:22 Reply

At 1/7/13 05:19 PM, jpbear wrote: Italy has a ridiculously low church attendance rate yet has confirmation rates extremely high (a catholic ritual about age 15 in italy)

Probably about 1 in 50 people at age 18 still attend mass. (at most)

Proof that teaching things at a young age does not come close to brainwashing.

The Maltese side of my family (not the English side) is strongly Christian, my grandparents especially, so I was taught exclusively Christianity when I was young. Like everyone else I also had to go to catechism classes, get baptised, confirmed, go to mass every Sunday, learn Christianity at school from a young age, and all that. At one point in secondary school our religion teacher flat-out said that he thinks atheists are idiots.

But then as I grew older I started disregarding all that I learnt, so clearly the "brainwashing" didn't work on me. Same story for a number of people I know too. I think that thankfully our generation, being exposed to the internet, allows for more open-mindedness (in fact here in Malta, the percentage of elderly people who believe in God is muuuuch larger than the percentage of teenagers who don't).

Still, I think this "brainwashing" does still happen. There's a reason why, taking the example of Malta again, most of it is Christian. As far as I know, when we're kids, we believe what our parents tell us and it gets imprinted into our minds a lot more easily than when we grow up, and I bet that if all the devout Christian teenagers and adults here had been brought up somewhere with different religions, most if not all of them would not be Christian.

...And it's almost needless to say, and it's because parents don't teach their kids to be open-minded about religion, they teach their kids their own religion. So all of a sudden, out of the hundreds of religions out there, your religion or lack thereof would rely very heavily on your upbringing, and not on your own self-conscious decisions.

Yeah I type too much.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 18:09:35 Reply

At 1/7/13 05:05 PM, Back-From-Purgatory wrote:
At 1/7/13 04:53 PM, AJtheRipper wrote: Does anybody here like metal?

...More specifically brutal death metal or "slam" death metal?

I love melodeath but not brutal death if that counts.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 18:24:05 Reply

At 1/7/13 04:53 PM, AJtheRipper wrote: Does anybody here like metal? More specifically brutal death metal or "slam" death metal? I feel I might be wasting time posting any of my new stuff here as nobody will like it :*(

I have a particular and odd taste for stuff like Dimmu Borgir, Cradle of Filth, although that's closer to "black metal". Stuff with really growly vocals yeah. Children of Bodom is sorta growly too, but more melodic.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 18:39:20 Reply

At 1/7/13 05:42 PM, Step wrote:
At 1/7/13 05:19 PM, jpbear wrote: Italy has a ridiculously low church attendance rate yet has confirmation rates extremely high (a catholic ritual about age 15 in italy)

Probably about 1 in 50 people at age 18 still attend mass. (at most)

Proof that teaching things at a young age does not come close to brainwashing.
The Maltese side of my family (not the English side) is strongly Christian, my grandparents especially, so I was taught exclusively Christianity when I was young. Like everyone else I also had to go to catechism classes, get baptised, confirmed, go to mass every Sunday, learn Christianity at school from a young age, and all that. At one point in secondary school our religion teacher flat-out said that he thinks atheists are idiots.

But then as I grew older I started disregarding all that I learnt, so clearly the "brainwashing" didn't work on me. Same story for a number of people I know too. I think that thankfully our generation, being exposed to the internet, allows for more open-mindedness (in fact here in Malta, the percentage of elderly people who believe in God is muuuuch larger than the percentage of teenagers who don't).

Still, I think this "brainwashing" does still happen. There's a reason why, taking the example of Malta again, most of it is Christian. As far as I know, when we're kids, we believe what our parents tell us and it gets imprinted into our minds a lot more easily than when we grow up, and I bet that if all the devout Christian teenagers and adults here had been brought up somewhere with different religions, most if not all of them would not be Christian.

...And it's almost needless to say, and it's because parents don't teach their kids to be open-minded about religion, they teach their kids their own religion. So all of a sudden, out of the hundreds of religions out there, your religion or lack thereof would rely very heavily on your upbringing, and not on your own self-conscious decisions.

Yeah I type too much.

If you actually believe in something, why wouldn't you want to share it with others, especially your children? I was raised with a certain set of beliefs, but I would by no means consider myself brainwashed. Everything can and should be questioned, but that doesn't mean that we should toss out the idea of the existence of God in the process. It is quite possible to believe in God and still be rational.

In fact, I would argue Christianity is entirely rational, if viewed correctly. The problem is most people have no idea what Christianity is. For most, Christianity is "that annoying thing my parents used to make me do. "

The only reason we have the great works of ancient philosophy today is because of Christianity, Catholicism in particular. Even the modern and post-modern philosophers must give credit to the importance Christian thought throughout the history of philosophy. Descartes studied Aristotle and Plato as well as St. Aquinas and St. Augustine (who came up with "I think therefore I am" a thousand years before Descartes).

Rational thought is imperative to true Christianity. I have no problem with people choosing one belief system over another, but ultimately we all have to believe something. Dismissing the Bible as a load of rubbish because it was written thousands of years ago is a weak approach to dismantling Christian belief. Aristotle also wrote thousands of years ago, and people put great worth into his words.

I won't fault anyone for choosing to believe what they will, nor will I fault parents for passing their beliefs off to their children (even if I disagree with them). That's part of what makes us human. It doesn't mean we are bound to believe what our parents believe, but religious belief (or lack thereof) is deeply embedded in the human experience.

tl;dr - Evolution/sciency things and Jesusy things are not mutually exclusive.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 19:11:33 Reply

At 1/7/13 06:39 PM, bassfiddlejones wrote: In fact, I would argue Christianity is entirely rational, if viewed correctly. The problem is most people have no idea what Christianity is. For most, Christianity is "that annoying thing my parents used to make me do. "

The only reason we have the great works of ancient philosophy today is because of Christianity, Catholicism in particular. Even the modern and post-modern philosophers must give credit to the importance Christian thought throughout the history of philosophy. Descartes studied Aristotle and Plato as well as St. Aquinas and St. Augustine (who came up with "I think therefore I am" a thousand years before Descartes).

Rational thought is imperative to true Christianity. I have no problem with people choosing one belief system over another, but ultimately we all have to believe something. Dismissing the Bible as a load of rubbish because it was written thousands of years ago is a weak approach to dismantling Christian belief. Aristotle also wrote thousands of years ago, and people put great worth into his words.

I won't fault anyone for choosing to believe what they will, nor will I fault parents for passing their beliefs off to their children (even if I disagree with them). That's part of what makes us human. It doesn't mean we are bound to believe what our parents believe, but religious belief (or lack thereof) is deeply embedded in the human experience.

tl;dr - Evolution/sciency things and Jesusy things are not mutually exclusive.

Nah I totally get what you're saying. I never said that parents shouldn't share their beliefs with children. In fact, like I said, I'm all for freedom of speech. But forcing your child to go to catechism classes, mass every day at school (with punishments if you don't go), obligatory religion lessons at school, etc... is taking it too far. If religion is so important in human culture, then at least treat it as such, and not treat it as a way of life imposed upon children.

Also yes, there is some rational foundation for certain religions. There's proof that Jesus existed, and that he made a hell of an impact in his time. But you can't base religion entirely on science. There's no actual scientific proof that God exists, nor undeniable proof that Jesus turned water into wine.

The stuff implied in the Bible is waaaaay beyond anything science can possibly explain. You can't prove it nor can you disprove it (ever heard of the dragon in my garage?). You need faith to make that extra step to believing in Christianity, and that's something that's entirely personal, and it depends on how much you value science as the only way of understanding the universe or not.

And also, taking your example of Aristotle... people blindly believing in what he said ended up bringing us back many years of progress. Don't get me wrong, Aristotle was a brilliant guy, but he made some mistakes, such as his infamous mistake of believing in the Pre-Socratic notion that everything is made up out of the four elements, when the Atomists had already figured out everything was made of atoms ages before his time. Putting great worth into something and believing that something is true are two entirely different things!


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 20:20:56 Reply

Soz though... I'm more into the melodic kinds of metal.

(I don't know how to multiquote - i r forumnewb)
But to all who said basically this:

It's all good! I like melodeath too but the problem is my guitar playing is right in between amateur and intermediate... wait no just amateur. I just like the chug chug guitar sounds and broooootal growls haha. But I posted some horse shit, it was my first song I ever made so feel free to rip me a new one if you check it out.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 21:00:58 Reply

At 1/7/13 07:11 PM, Step wrote: stuff

you're jumping around to so many related topics it would be impossible to properly say anything to this man.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 21:32:48 Reply

Bootlegs, Remixes, Reduxes, Reworks, etc.

I've never know what term means what. But if I like a song thats unreleased and I decide to piece together/repeat parts ripped from youtube etc. to remove a DJ talking over the top- is that called a bootleg? It's all the same original song, I've just kinda rearranged it

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 22:11:18 Reply

I got me a Wii U yaaay.

This thing better get the good games in the future.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 22:12:32 Reply

At 1/7/13 09:32 PM, AeroMusic wrote: Bootlegs, Remixes, Reduxes, Reworks, etc.

I've never know what term means what. But if I like a song thats unreleased and I decide to piece together/repeat parts ripped from youtube etc. to remove a DJ talking over the top- is that called a bootleg? It's all the same original song, I've just kinda rearranged it

no because theres no original content.

Its just an edit of the song.

You can write:
Song artist - song title ([your name] edit)

but i would just put (Edit) since its a bit dickey to put yourself in something so menial

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 22:14:12 Reply

At 1/7/13 10:11 PM, Braiton wrote: I got me a Wii U yaaay.

This thing better get the good games in the future.

In the mean time you can stock up on the good games of today. Mario Galaxy, sonic colors, and you can look forward to Rayman legends. Mm Rayman legends. Im hyped as hell for that game.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 22:21:01 Reply

edit! of course, i'll do that :)

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 22:22:48 Reply

At 1/7/13 10:14 PM, sweet21 wrote:
At 1/7/13 10:11 PM, Braiton wrote: I got me a Wii U yaaay.

This thing better get the good games in the future.
In the mean time you can stock up on the good games of today. Mario Galaxy, sonic colors, and you can look forward to Rayman legends. Mm Rayman legends. Im hyped as hell for that game.

Yeah I already had a wii so I played half of them good games.
Not a fan of Rayman so I don't think I'm getting that.

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 22:37:46 Reply

At 1/7/13 10:22 PM, Braiton wrote:
At 1/7/13 10:14 PM, sweet21 wrote:
At 1/7/13 10:11 PM, Braiton wrote: I got me a Wii U yaaay.

This thing better get the good games in the future.
In the mean time you can stock up on the good games of today. Mario Galaxy, sonic colors, and you can look forward to Rayman legends. Mm Rayman legends. Im hyped as hell for that game.
Yeah I already had a wii so I played half of them good games.
Not a fan of Rayman so I don't think I'm getting that.

Have you PLAYED origins? Its so beautifully drawn and stylized and the music is just amazingly catchy. They've refined the character and look since the PS1 which I assume is they Rayman you're going off of. Unless your thinking about the rabbids which we can all say 'It NEVER happened'
The Wii version of Rayman origins is cheap so you can try that out. It gives Mario a run for his money in my opinion.


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-07 23:05:09 Reply

At 1/7/13 10:11 PM, Braiton wrote: I got me a Wii U yaaay.

This thing better get the good games in the future.

ESS ESS BEE FOUR


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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-08 04:17:44 Reply

#cutforbieber is trending on Twitter.
What the fuck is wrong with people these days?

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-08 04:50:06 Reply

At 1/7/13 06:39 PM, bassfiddlejones wrote: If you actually believe in something, why wouldn't you want to share it with others, especially your children? I was raised with a certain set of beliefs, but I would by no means consider myself brainwashed. Everything can and should be questioned, but that doesn't mean that we should toss out the idea of the existence of God in the process. It is quite possible to believe in God and still be rational.

Would anyone who has been brainwashed realize they have been brainwashed. Or more relevantly, can it be considered "brain washing" if you stuff things as hard facts in a child's mind before they've learned to question things?

In fact, I would argue Christianity is entirely rational, if viewed correctly. The problem is most people have no idea what Christianity is. For most, Christianity is "that annoying thing my parents used to make me do. "

I fail to see how believing (not "it might well be true", but "I actually believe this is true") in things that have no substantial evidence to back them up is anywhere near rational.

The only reason we have the great works of ancient philosophy today is because of Christianity, Catholicism in particular. Even the modern and post-modern philosophers must give credit to the importance Christian thought throughout the history of philosophy. Descartes studied Aristotle and Plato as well as St. Aquinas and St. Augustine (who came up with "I think therefore I am" a thousand years before Descartes).

Yes, those philosophers may have been inspired by christianity/catholicism. I wouldn't go as far as saying "the only reason" though. I don't have the energy to dig into that. The thing is, though, what do things like "I think, therefore I am" contribute to anything? The bible basically teaches "be good to each other and respect eachother" (which it in other places completely contradicts by ridiculous, inhumane bullshit), as well as "believe in an entity that is all-powerful, ever-forgiving, yet requires you to worship it, all the while not giving any indication it actually exists and basically punishing anyone who challenges the belief"

Rational thought is imperative to true Christianity. I have no problem with people choosing one belief system over another, but ultimately we all have to believe something. Dismissing the Bible as a load of rubbish because it was written thousands of years ago is a weak approach to dismantling Christian belief. Aristotle also wrote thousands of years ago, and people put great worth into his words.

Define "true Christianity". I'm not dismissing the bible just because it was old, I'm dismissing it because it is based on nothing but ancient stories, has been translated countless times (just imagine how much was lost in translation over all that time), and has been altered to the merit of who-ever's been in charge at different times throughout history. It is not by any means a credible source.


I won't fault anyone for choosing to believe what they will, nor will I fault parents for passing their beliefs off to their children (even if I disagree with them). That's part of what makes us human. It doesn't mean we are bound to believe what our parents believe, but religious belief (or lack thereof) is deeply embedded in the human experience.

I would definitely like to see what happens when you teach a child properly how to critically analyze claims, and only then try to convince them of theist beliefs.

(At times like these I wish I could preview posts on the BBS)

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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-08 07:47:04 Reply

Personally I like to send my prayers out to Odin. Maybe if I slaughter enough welps I'll find myself drinking mead with warriors of old while we sing tales about battles fought valiantly. Sometimes I consider the possibility that the universe is just a giant wheel of samsara where we constantly die and are reborn relevant to our karma from our passing life... mayhaps in the next life I'll reach nirvana.

I like to consider that while Jesus was born to a virgin, Buhdas mom was impregnated in her sleep by a white elephant. It's actually fun to note that a lot of scholars assert that the Buhdas birth story inspired christians virgin mary story... debatable :p

I like to consider how every religious nut I talk to completely over looks other religions as being false and dangerous. Just this morning a super jewish lady was trying to tell me how only through reading the old testament and worshiping god I'll be saved. I had no idea heaven was so exclusively Jewish. I hope she doesn't find out about my tattoos...

A friend of mine was a devout christian his whole life. I talk to him from time to time about his beliefs and they've swayed a good bit over the years. Perhaps one of the most enlightened things he ever said was "there are multiple paths to god." It's great to see some universalism free up a persons mind.

So if I'm on death row and I accept jesus into my heart; does this mean Jesus get's covered by dirt? Because according to Jainists, karma is literally a physical manifestation of particles in your soul.

Unrelated but fun story; back in college my brother had his own place. He was just getting out of the shower when he noticed a Jahovas Witness at the front door. Sure enough he dropped his towel and answered the door. They gave him a flyer and left without saying a word :D


Giants are too tall. We'll have to stand on top of each others shoulders to survive.

Quarl
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-08 08:24:37 Reply

Oh, I forgot a detail about that jewish lady (who I'll refer to as Mara from this point.)

I had taken up a canvasing job a while back and one of the doors I knocked on was a muslims. She invited me into her home to talk about faith. I left her house with an english translation of the Quran with the original Arabic. Apparently before touching the Arabic text I have to wash my left hand three times, my head three times, my feet three times... some branches assert that only certain kinds of water are viable to wash with... (wiki link, why not :p) According to her, this was my best chance of leading a life that will please Allah.

When I mentioned this to Mara she freaked out. She basically told me to ignore the Quran and that it's a false book that will damn my soul.

Many devout followers of Christ assert to taking a leap of faith. My opinion: if you're willfully ignoring other ideas and cultures in favor of preserving your own beliefs, that's a leap of ignorance. Look to the world around you and learn to think for yourself. If god gave you free will: use it...

... or was knowledge stolen by humans from a tree? Many casual christians assert to the idea that the bible shouldn't be taken literally. If that's the case then where does one draw the line? Why does one choose to believe in a god that created everything but they won't acknowledge the idea that their beliefs stemmed from a literal understanding of Genesis?

Gotta work for your faith.


Giants are too tall. We'll have to stand on top of each others shoulders to survive.

Lachi
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Response to The Audio Forum Lounge 2013-01-08 09:58:08 Reply

At 1/8/13 04:50 AM, Mich wrote: lot's of bullshit

wow, how much bullshit


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