Forum Topic: Binaural beats

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Thinking

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Posted at: 1/20/09 03:20 PM

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A phenomenon I discovered here and found more info about here. Lemme copypaste a post I made earlier:

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When signals of two different frequencies are presented, one to each ear, the brain detects phase differences between these signals. "Under natural circumstances a detected phase difference would provide directional information. The brain processes this anomalous information differently when these phase differences are heard with stereo headphones or speakers. A perceptual integration of the two signals takes place, producing the sensation of a third "beat" frequency. The difference between the signals waxes and wanes as the two different input frequencies mesh in and out of phase. As a result of these constantly increasing and decreasing differences, an amplitude-modulated standing wave -the binaural beat- is heard.

The brain interacts with sound waves in a peculiar way - the neurons fire at the exact frequencies you hear. Meaning that if you were listening to a song and someone stuck an electrode in your brain in the right place and hooked it up to a speaker, they'd hear the song coming out through the speaker.

Each hemisphere of the brain has its own hearing processor section, and the two compare notes, so to speak, to interpret the auditory input and figure out where in the outside world the sound is coming from. When they get two slightly different signals, the binaural beat is heard as the two hearing sections vibrate in sync with their respective signals.

It's possible to tune the beats to match the frequencies of certain brainwaves, strengthening them. If a brainwave is strong enough, it imparts a physical effect on the body, such as sleep or pleasure. Not everyone is susceptible to them.

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What do you guys think? Maybe we could have a binaural beat collab and send people on murderous rampages.


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MaestroRage

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Posted at: 1/20/09 03:29 PM

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THAT, is an interesting read.

So in theory, the purer the signal, the more effective the beat right? Is a sine wave pure enough? How can we make the purest frequency? I definitely want to try this stuff out.


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Rig

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Posted at: 1/20/09 03:34 PM

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At 1/20/09 03:29 PM, MaestroRage wrote: THAT, is an interesting read.

Indeed it is.

So in theory, the purer the signal, the more effective the beat right? Is a sine wave pure enough?

You can't get purer than that.

How can we make the purest frequency? I definitely want to try this stuff out.

Well, if you know the frequency of a type of brainwave, you can put two different sine wave in your two ears that beat at the brainwave freq. Check out http://www.i-doser.com/ to give it a whirl.


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Nav

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Posted at: 1/20/09 03:35 PM

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The problem with them that I've found is that it's hard to keep listening... The music makes you somewhat paranoid because of how creepy it sounds. If you could overcome that, I'm sure it would work to an extent.

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Winking

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Posted at: 1/20/09 03:41 PM

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At 1/20/09 03:35 PM, Nav wrote: The problem with them that I've found is that it's hard to keep listening... The music makes you somewhat paranoid because of how creepy it sounds. If you could overcome that, I'm sure it would work to an extent.

It's different, yes, but remember that they're only sine waves.


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Hades

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Posted at: 1/20/09 04:01 PM

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This is most probably the most intriguing sound-related subject I've seen since I first heard about that "brown noise" bull. However, I'm not sure I understand 100%, as my knowledge of the physical traits of sound doesn't really amount to... well, pretty much anything. :P

So, basically, if you hit the right interval between the left and right speaker, this phenomenon occurs? I mean, frequency difference = note interval in the case of sound, right?

In Defiance of Fate - Epic Battle Theme!!!

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Rig

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Posted at: 1/20/09 04:17 PM

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At 1/20/09 04:01 PM, Hades0013 wrote: So, basically, if you hit the right interval between the left and right speaker, this phenomenon occurs? I mean, frequency difference = note interval in the case of sound, right?

That's right. The difference between the frequencies is the binaural beat you'll get.
Take note that in order for this to work, you need to be wearing good headphones. Speakers won't cut it - your ears need to get completely different signals.


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Sir-Davey

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Posted at: 1/20/09 04:17 PM

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Fucking SHIT!

I was trying out the orgasm one, and as I felt my boner rising for no reason at all, my fucking dad comes into my room saying he's hearing a weird sound.

Geeze, thanks dad, you asshole

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la-yinn

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Posted at: 1/20/09 04:20 PM

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Hmm... mmm, yeah. WOW.

That's wicked! I'm definately going to try this out.

If anybody else is going to try this aswell, gimme a PM. I'd like to hear what it's like for myself!

A new chill-out WIP:
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/lis ten/280798
Check it out, leave a review. :D


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Skela

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Posted at: 1/20/09 04:25 PM

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Old stuff, most of it is plasebo.


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EchozAurora

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Posted at: 1/20/09 04:33 PM

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Binaural training is indeed possible, and some people are more attuned to it than others...

However, claiming to reproduce drugs and such is silly. The things aren't that exact. It works by producing a beat in the mind that matches the frequency of a brain wave. Many of these recordings reproduce Theta waves, which occurs during dreaming and meditation, although it is possible to attempt to train any type (Gamma, Beta, Alpha, Theta, and Delta).

I made a lil project file a while back trying to reproduce it. One of the problems with implementing this in music is that you have to constantly adjust the detuning.. calculating the necessary offset for each note as you go along composing.

Anywho, fun stuff. Best of luck to anyone that tries to mess with this. I definitely recommend having a note frequency chart handy to help you while you work on this.


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Rig

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Posted at: 1/20/09 04:58 PM

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At 1/20/09 04:25 PM, Skela wrote: Old stuff, most of it is plasebo.

Maybe you should read the original post someday. You know, click some links.

At 1/20/09 04:33 PM, EchozAurora wrote: However, claiming to reproduce drugs and such is silly.

Agreed, although things like sleeping pills or caffeine shouldn't be hard to recreate.


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EchozAurora

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Posted at: 1/20/09 05:09 PM

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At 1/20/09 04:58 PM, Rig wrote:
Agreed, although things like sleeping pills or caffeine shouldn't be hard to recreate.

Yeps. Respectively, training someone down to low theta/high delta (sleeping pills) or mid-beta (caffeine) would do that.


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la-yinn

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Posted at: 1/20/09 05:14 PM

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Oh wait, I don't think I got it when I previously posted.

I thought it was about something else, but now I see what you mean. I've heard about this many times before, it's discussed quite often in the general forum actually. Reproducing bineural frequencies to let someone believe they're on drugs, for example. Or well, not somebody; their brain.

I've googled it before, there are lots of sites which sell cds with multiple tracks which supposedly make you feel as if you're on certain drugs. Somebody even posted a YouTube link earlier today about sexual stimulation. *grabs link...*

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SiW066dNXu 4&feature=channel_page

There, 'orgasm stimulation'. It appears to make you believe you're having an orgasm. (A 10 minute long one, looking at the clip length!)

I'm curious though, if we knew the frequencies of emotions, or even interactions, would we be able to hypnotise people?

A new chill-out WIP:
http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/lis ten/280798
Check it out, leave a review. :D


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RedHatCore

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Posted at: 1/20/09 05:22 PM

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Indeed this topic is very interesting. It truly is amazing that this "third" beat is created through the use of headphones. I've always enjoyed playing with raw tones... istening to how they fall in and out of sync as you move up a scale.

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/lis ten/239580 - WGI Percussion style! What's that? Take a listen!

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Psychophan7

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Posted at: 1/20/09 05:26 PM

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There's a program called idoze or something that utilises these. Having given it a go last year, I said the same thing Skela did. It's all placebo. Some people on IRC claimed it worked for them, some others claimed it didn't.

I suppose it could work. Resonating with a certain brainwave frequency sounds plausible, if a little bit out of science fiction. Emulating the effects of a drug however, doesn't; Drugs are substances that introduce chemicals to the brain (unless I'm terribly misinformed), and said substances are not brainwaves. Therefore, emulating the effects of said substances should be impossible.

Try putting these in music, trigger a certain reaction.


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EchozAurora

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Posted at: 1/20/09 05:31 PM

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The substances do trigger processes in the brain that create brainwaves though.

The idea behind I-Doser, and similar things is that if you monitor the brainwaves produced by a drug, you can emulate those waves via binaural beat to get similar effects in people. The flaw in this.. is that the human mind is incredibly complex, and even if you do manage to completely train a person's mind in the same pattern produced by a drug, it's not necessarily going to produce the same effects in that person. In most cases, especially with complex chemicals.. it's not going to. There are too many processes in the mind to try to dumb it down to one thing and expect it to work.


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MaestroRage

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Posted at: 1/20/09 05:35 PM

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I've listened to several now and i've just gotten bored and sleepy.

I guess it doesn't work for me :(

Too bad lads, I was looking forward to experiencing monster long rage-ections ;D!!!

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Mrmilkcarton

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Posted at: 1/20/09 05:58 PM

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Is this technique also used to help people "Lucid Dream"? Reminds me of a sound file I had a while back with white noise and sine waves modulating their levels to induce it.

Awe chicken nuggets and pancakes what did you do this time?
www.myspace.com/mrmilkcartonmusic


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Quarl

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Posted at: 1/20/09 06:10 PM

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I just listened to the youtube video with the volume way up. My suite mate walked in, threw up on himself and started crying.

Well, not really. but he did find it amusing :p

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