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At 1/7/09 06:31 PM, homor wrote:

At 1/7/09 06:23 PM, Brick-top wrote: What i'm saying is if the excuse to cut off the forskin for hygene reasons is equally ridiculous.

i'm not saying it should cut off for hygene reasons.

I know but I was using the toes as a rebuttle for the hygene excuse to get the snip.

At 1/7/09 03:05 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 1/7/09 01:05 PM, thedo12 wrote: thats a complete strawman if I ever heard one.

And? I showed the flaws in your logic based on the evidence you presented. So sue me.

when you assume you make an ass out of u and me.

I think that parents have the right to to raise their children how they want to as long as dont step on the childs rights.

You just said that the children's rights are greater than that of the parents, which shows either that you (a) truly don't respect the rights of the parents or (b) you hold conflicting viewpoints you have as yet to rationalize.

I guess I dont truly respect the rights of the parents then.

All straightedge means is you don't smoke, drink, or do drugs, you can still be emo and straight edge at the same time.

well im not emo either,
I hate people with negative outlooks toward life.

At 1/7/09 06:42 PM, reviewer-general wrote:

At 1/7/09 06:38 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote:

At 1/7/09 06:10 PM, reviewer-general wrote: The question I wanted answered was what the political relevance of this was.

It's a political issue just as much as abortion, gay marriage, the economy, or the Iraq war.

Explain how.

Abortion is an issue because of religion and preserving life, blah blah blah.
Gay marriage deals with equality and legal rights.
The economy affects all of us and the quality of our lives, sometimes drastically.
The war in Iraq is a WAR ('nuff said).

Explain to me, please, how this merits mentioning among these other issues.

Abortion: A part of the mother's body is cut out
Gay marriage: Semen is removed from the male body (when they start having sex)
The war in Iraq: Limbs are commonly removed from the bodies of people involved

My point: They all have to do with human body parts being cut out

Circumcision: The foreskin is cut off.

I'm glad i'm not circumcised.

if we can abort we can circumcise. Argument over.

At 1/8/09 09:44 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: if we can abort we can circumcise. Argument over.

That's like saying if we can punish people with death, we can punish them with severe beatings. Argument severely flawed and fails to appeal to both the pro-life and pro-choice audiences.

At 1/8/09 09:44 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: if we can abort we can circumcise. Argument over.

If you can figure out a way to circumcise during the first trimester, I'd like to hear about it.

At 1/8/09 09:53 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 1/8/09 09:44 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: if we can abort we can circumcise. Argument over.

If you can figure out a way to circumcise during the first trimester, I'd like to hear about it.

Cesarian circumcision.

Hey guys, it's optional, and infections are much easier to catch when you don't wash parts of your dick as much.

I mean, you call this mutilation? What is the accepted definition of mutilation? Someone against circumcision would say that it's changing the body, I suppose. Plastic surgery, is it mutilation? If you want to see real body mutilation, look at any person with ears gauged bigger than his fist or twelve pounds of piercings on his face.

If it's mutilation, it's mutilation with a reasonable purpose. In other words, medicine.

At 1/8/09 10:09 PM, Christopherr wrote: Hey guys, it's optional, and infections are much easier to catch when you don't wash parts of your dick as much.

You people without foreskin just don't seem to get how it works. You just pull it back, and all of the skin, including the underside of the foreskin, is completely accessible.

In fact, in an emergency situation, you could theoretically pinch shut the tip of the foreskin as you start to urinate, trapping urine (which, like it or not, is sterile and kills bacteria/fungus) between the foreskin and head, then release it to flush the area, making it cleaner than circumcision.

The only people who would suffer from poor hygiene as a result of foreskin are too lazy to own a penis, let alone the rest of a human body.

At 1/6/09 09:43 PM, thedo12 wrote: The thing is I think it should be illegal to mutilate your child,s genitals

mutil-

How the hell is male circumcision mutilation? It causes minimal functional and aesthetic differences. If anything, it's a silly thing to get it done because it's so expensive for what you get.

At 1/8/09 09:47 PM, AntiangelicAngel wrote:

At 1/8/09 09:44 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: if we can abort we can circumcise. Argument over.

That's like saying if we can punish people with death, we can punish them with severe beatings. Argument severely flawed and fails to appeal to both the pro-life and pro-choice audiences.

If we can circumcise....we can mutilate.

If we can circumcise....we can suicide.

If we can circumcise....we can kill baby bunnies.

I think his argument is kind've flawed but I've got the giggles.

At 1/8/09 10:20 PM, Elfer wrote: The only people who would suffer from poor hygiene as a result of foreskin are too lazy to own a penis, let alone the rest of a human body.

Well... as disgusting it is, smegma is actually nature's soap and sexual lubricant much like how a scab is nature's band-aid.

That doesn't excuse guys from cleaning themselves with a proper shower-- but we can't also say that smegma is dangerous. It has a purpose of keeping the gland moist and traps bacteria from going up the eurethra.

Maybe someone already brought this up, but didn't we evolve foreskin down there for a reason?

Circumcision is only a religious thing now, it's not a medical advantage for men.

circumcision sucks if its done to a baby, something like that shouldnt be decided by anyone but the person involved.

if you are for circumcision then how far would you go? say i have a 4000 year old religion that demands my babys middle toes be cut off, you dont need them, and itll be easier to clean between the big an little toe now. would you be for that?

if you wanna get circumcised thats cool, only cause YOU want to though, not your parents or anyone else, that is a serious breach in free will. just cause they dont remember the pain doesnt mean something wrong didnt happen, ill go beat my newborn cause he'll never remember it.

PS. why do people keep saying circumcised dicks are easier to clean? seriously ive never once looked at my foreskin in desperation cursing how filthy it makes my penis

At 1/9/09 01:13 AM, TheGuyAtYourWindow wrote: PS. why do people keep saying circumcised dicks are easier to clean? seriously ive never once looked at my foreskin in desperation cursing how filthy it makes my penis

Because it is - at least, insofar as there isn't a little flap to pull back.

I have a couple of questions to all of those in favor of infant circumcisions:

1: If it is for religious reasons, shouldn't the child have the ability to make the decision for himself? If he was a true believer of his faith, and circumcision was a requirement, wouldn't he do it without objection on his own?

2: If it is for clinical reasons (stopping of future infections arguement), shouldn't the operation be performed after the infection is treated, similar to the case of a tonsilectomy? We aren't talking about crippling infections that can kill or destroy genitalia in a matter of days. Not to mention it's something that can be prevented with minimal hygiene practices.

3: If the removal of genital skin at birth is humane, why is the same treatment performed on women in many countries considered torture?

Just some things to think about before your child goes under the knife.

At 1/9/09 04:32 AM, SonOfCeno wrote: I have a couple of questions to all of those in favor of infant circumcisions:

1: If it is for religious reasons, shouldn't the child have the ability to make the decision for himself? If he was a true believer of his faith, and circumcision was a requirement, wouldn't he do it without objection on his own?

Like baptism? Oh... right.

2: If it is for clinical reasons (stopping of future infections arguement), shouldn't the operation be performed after the infection is treated, similar to the case of a tonsilectomy? We aren't talking about crippling infections that can kill or destroy genitalia in a matter of days. Not to mention it's something that can be prevented with minimal hygiene practices.

The STD's that foreskins increase the chance of (which condoms eliminate difference between circumcisions ans non circumcisions) are the kind like herpes and HPV that don't really go away.

3: If the removal of genital skin at birth is humane, why is the same treatment performed on women in many countries considered torture?

Because they chop off the clitoris and sew the vagina shut?

At 1/9/09 04:44 AM, AntiangelicAngel wrote:

At 1/9/09 04:32 AM, SonOfCeno wrote: I have a couple of questions to all of those in favor of infant circumcisions:

1: If it is for religious reasons, shouldn't the child have the ability to make the decision for himself? If he was a true believer of his faith, and circumcision was a requirement, wouldn't he do it without objection on his own?

Like baptism? Oh... right.

Some sects don't practice "juvenile baptism" in these sects you typically have to be at least 13 to be baptized.

2: If it is for clinical reasons (stopping of future infections arguement), shouldn't the operation be performed after the infection is treated, similar to the case of a tonsilectomy? We aren't talking about crippling infections that can kill or destroy genitalia in a matter of days. Not to mention it's something that can be prevented with minimal hygiene practices.

The STD's that foreskins increase the chance of (which condoms eliminate difference between circumcisions ans non circumcisions) are the kind like herpes and HPV that don't really go away.

There are some infections men can rarely get if they still have their foreskin that are not sexually transmitted however these can be prevented with simple hygiene & cured with antibiotics.
Also there is little evidence that circumcision prevents the spread of HIV.
And how would circumcision prevent HPV? Seriously How is that even possible?

I am surprised no one has mentioned the real reason circumcision continues,

The reason it became fashionable in the U.S. is because of "moralists" who thought that it would prevent infants & children from touching themselves, the reason it continues is simple no one wants to answer this question
"Dad , why does my penis look different than yours?".

There seriously is no reason to preform a circumcision other than tradition.

At 1/9/09 05:30 AM, kraor024 wrote: And how would circumcision prevent HPV? Seriously How is that even possible?

Having unsafe sex with someone with genital warts doesn't always mean getting HPV. The foreskin allows the virus to fester, hidden in a safe, warm, moist environment. Plus there's just more surface area.
But yeah, I think there's no connection to HIV contraction rates.

I've done a littl e research & it looks like you might be right there is (some) research that shows that circumcision may be a prophylactic for HPV (& only low risk HPV actually produces genital warts) but considering the odds of getting cancer or visible symptoms & the fact that most of the time a strain of HPV will be eliminated by the bodies immune system within a few years & that the results of said studies are still questionable (all the studies I read had been published in the last year) it is in my untrained opinion that is not a significant reason to have a child circumcised.

At 1/6/09 10:59 PM, Proteas wrote:

the number of parents is getting smaller and smaller and thus the mommy and daddy voting block dose as well.

Going by your logic, that would mean the number of children would be getting smaller as well, thus keeping the ratio the same.

Not necessarily, if each parent gained an increasing number of kids.

At 1/9/09 03:16 AM, dySWN wrote:

At 1/9/09 01:13 AM, TheGuyAtYourWindow wrote: PS. why do people keep saying circumcised dicks are easier to clean? seriously ive never once looked at my foreskin in desperation cursing how filthy it makes my penis

Because it is - at least, insofar as there isn't a little flap to pull back.

Much like how cutting your lips off makes it easier to brush your teeth.

At 1/9/09 01:13 AM, TheGuyAtYourWindow wrote: circumcision sucks if its done to a baby, something like that shouldnt be decided by anyone but the person involved.

So what you're saying, is you want to be 13 or 15 years old when your dad comes to you and says "hey son, your mom and I were talking, and we were wondering if you would like to snip some skin off your penis, what do you think?" That and we (wife and I) were told by a couple Dr and a few nurses that the pain is more intense the longer you wait for the procedure.

if you are for circumcision then how far would you go? say i have a 4000 year old religion that demands my babys middle toes be cut off, you dont need them, and itll be easier to clean between the big an little toe now. would you be for that?

For one, you do need your middle toes, you would fall over without them. Now your pinky toe, he is actually useless and probably next to go in our evolutionary cycle. Secondly, I don't think any religion should overpower the legal system. If cutting off your babies toes is legally unacceptable, then it should be illegal everytime. Religious people use their religion to get around traditional laws.

Polygamy for instance, here in BC Canada, the RCMP just arrested Winston Blackmore for polygamy, he had like 19 wives. Now he is saying that it goes against Canadas charter of rights and freedoms to be persecuted for his religious beliefs. Even his beliefs go against his countries legal system.

ill go beat my newborn cause he'll never remember it.

Better chance of negative lasting effects from beating your child than there is for circumcising him.

PS. why do people keep saying circumcised dicks are easier to clean? seriously ive never once looked at my foreskin in desperation cursing how filthy it makes my penis

I would say it's easier by about 2.5 seconds. Religion likes circumcision because it stops you from handling your dick. Cuz it's common knowledge that handling your dick leads to masturbation, which leads to homosexuality (yes that was sarcasm). The cack is one of natures most important creations, I can't see nature fucking that up.

So what you're saying, is you want to be 13 or 15 years old when your dad comes to you and says "hey son, your mom and I were talking, and we were wondering if you would like to snip some skin off your penis, what do you think?" That and we (wife and I) were told by a couple Dr and a few nurses that the pain is more intense the longer you wait for the procedure.

yeah thats what im saying, itd be the same as getting a vasectomy, localized pain killer, you wouldnt feel a thing, the anesthetic wouldnt be harmful cause you wouldnt be a baby!

For one, you do need your middle toes, you would fall over without them. Now your pinky toe, he is actually useless and probably next to go in our evolutionary cycle. Secondly, I don't think any religion should overpower the legal system. If cutting off your babies toes is legally unacceptable, then it should be illegal everytime. Religious people use their religion to get around traditional laws.

except youre wrong, i was in the ambulance when my cousin chopped his middle toes off, and the medic guy told him he was lucky it wasnt the big or little one, caus ethose are the main toes for balance, and next to go evolutionary is our tail bone. that last bit we are agreed on.

Better chance of negative lasting effects from beating your child than there is for circumcising him.

not if i just smack him once

I would say it's easier by about 2.5 seconds. Religion likes circumcision because it stops you from handling your dick. Cuz it's common knowledge that handling your dick leads to masturbation, which leads to homosexuality (yes that was sarcasm). The cack is one of natures most important creations, I can't see nature fucking that up.

if youre not a dirty scuzzbag then you got nothin to worry about.

At 1/8/09 11:22 PM, fli wrote: Well... as disgusting it is, smegma is

;;;;;
So i not only lost my foreskin (actually I didn't lose it they cut it of >snip, Snip<) I also lost the ability to produce ...the disgusting sounding stuff I can't pronounce...is the 'e' a long or short vowel?
Heck with it pronunciation isn't important since I don't get it. YAYYYYY

The pinky toe is useless.

To the posters who believe you can just cut off a pinky toe no problem.
WRONG ! !! !
I have a friend who removed his pinky toe in a motorcycle accident about 3 years ago...he had to relearn to walk.
Your ability to balance yourself while walking depends on that little wizzened Mofo. Just try breaking it & then walking...hurts don't it. Imagine having it gone now.

At 1/9/09 08:51 AM, bcdemon wrote: That and we (wife and I) were told by a couple Dr and a few nurses that the pain is more intense the longer you wait for the procedure.

All other arguments aside, this is important to note. An adult male who has this procedure will have an extremely long and painful recovery period, during which time it will likely be excruciating to get an erection. And the average adult male has several erections every night while he is asleep.

Now that we've had the requisite back and forth discussion about smegma, may I bring up something else? Yes, gentleman, I am referring to all the circumcised men out there who take the fact that they don't get cheesy buildup in their rods to mean that they don't have to wash down there. Let me tell you, whoo boy, it's awesome to get down there and realize the whole area reeks like a men's locker room.

Keep 'em clean, fellas. Us lady-types really appreciate it.

I will say that while I find the uncircumcised penis to be unspeakably ugly, especially when flaccid, the circumcised one isn't much prettier. Genitals are gross, no two ways about it. The argument that you should have your sons circumcised because American women find foreskins disgusting is ridiculous. A lot of women may never have seen one, but most aren't going to freak out and run from the room. The important thing is to teach boys to be confident in their bodies so that when they whip it out, circumcised or not, they project the image of "This is how I am, and I like it."

Circumcision = Rape

Keep 'em clean, fellas. Us lady-types really appreciate it.

no offense there, but lady types should keep outta penis policy lol, i wont jump in your vagina, dont jump on my rod haha