Forum Topic: Want to learn a new Language

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BillysProgrammer

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Posted at: 1/1/09 07:21 PM

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Ok, so over the past few years, ive been exausting my time learning different programming languages. And I have actually been getting pretty good at each and every one. So I was wondering if any else had any different programming languages that were interesting to themselves and presented a challenge, if maybe you could tell me and I can learn them.

So, im going to give a simple list of all languages I know so it can tell you what I already know. Thanks

Basics:
C++
C#
Java

Every Day Programming:
Almost every web development programming language except ASP and Coldfusion.
Visual Basics 6.0


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BillysProgrammer

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Posted at: 1/1/09 07:22 PM

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Sorry, i forgot to add a few

MS-Dos
Batch Programming
ClearEyes
botScript


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Cinjection

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Posted at: 1/1/09 07:37 PM

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At 1/1/09 07:21 PM, BillysProgrammer wrote: Basics:
C++
C#
Java

You might want to choose to learn one of these languages really well. I would recommend C#.

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DearonElensar

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Posted at: 1/1/09 07:38 PM

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I want you to write a window manager in Haskell please.

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BillysProgrammer

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Posted at: 1/1/09 07:42 PM

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At 1/1/09 07:38 PM, DearonElensar wrote: I want you to write a window manager in Haskell please.

What do you mean?

And what things can you do in C# that can be good for future references (meaning whats the point of the languages, pro's\con's, abilities)


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BillysProgrammer

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Posted at: 1/1/09 08:00 PM

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Hey, thanks. Processing looks different, maybe I might try that. But about AS3, its to confusing for me, just the amount of things to make 1 thing happen, when I can do 2 words in as2 to do the same thing. Ya, as3 is stronger, but I dislike it.

Thanks a lot.


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DougyTheFreshmaker

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Posted at: 1/1/09 08:09 PM

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I'm also going to suggest learning one of the languages you "already know" really well and then possibly working on learning about architecture or design, etc. Moving your skill set from one language to another is generally pretty trivial within the same paradigm, so the focus should really be on improving vertically, not just knowing how to write 'hello world' in 50 languages (as an example).

Having said that, a paradigm switch (ex to a functional-based or possibly procedural-only language) could be beneficial if you REALLY wanted to learn a new language.

As for focusing on a particular language for learning purposes, I would actually suggest C++. Java is kind of "meh" in my own personal opinion--C# would be a better alternative to that. C++'s is frequently railed for its difficulty, in particular because you have to be mindful of things that 'easy to use' languages like C# and Java hide away from the user. This is what makes it valuable to someone who's interested in learning versus 'getting something done, fast'.

The biggest, most common example of this would have to be the necessary attention to ownership and lifetime for heap allocations. A language like C# will allow a programmer to ignore the issue of ownership in lieu of more progressive tasks, but by the same token, the programmer will know nothing about ownership when he/she enters into a threaded environment and will, thus, suffer greatly because of it. This is one of many examples.

But I would put more importance on picking a language and learning it (along with more broad, language-agnostic topics) well over which particular language you choose, and would suggest doing that many times over just scratching the surface of yet another language.

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DFox

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Posted at: 1/1/09 08:14 PM

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At 1/1/09 07:57 PM, KemCab wrote: which doesn't measure up to Java

Um, that would be a big fat FALSE. Show me 1 innovative web-based Java app that came out on the net this year, and I'll show you 100 innovative ActionScript 3/Flex apps. Not to mention tons of huge companies are literally going away from Java for their web-based solutions and switching directly to Flex.


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BillysProgrammer

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Posted at: 1/1/09 08:37 PM

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At 1/1/09 08:09 PM, DougyTheFreshmaker wrote: But I would put more importance on picking a language and learning it (along with more broad, language-agnostic topics) well over which particular language you choose, and would suggest doing that many times over just scratching the surface of yet another language.

Nice answer btw, but I know all these programs a lot more then what you said. What I mean of basics is everything or almost that you learn how to do on websites, etc, but not knowing enough for example Coolio-Niato, he is a good example of a place im not at. But im more advanced then just "hello" world.

But thanks a lot for the input.


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DearonElensar

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Posted at: 1/1/09 09:03 PM

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Here is a radical idea, learn good programming practice before you do anything else.

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sasuke2910

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Posted at: 1/1/09 09:26 PM

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how about C++ is can do EVERY THING, except make websites, and flash

pro's:
make just about everything professional games and programs you name it

con's:
is extremely hard to learn

or flash action script

pro's:
extremely simple
well is makes flash games soooooo... yeah

con's:
really expensive, get a free trial first

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BillysProgrammer

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Posted at: 1/1/09 10:00 PM

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At 1/1/09 09:26 PM, sasuke2910 wrote: how about C++ is can do EVERY THING, except make websites, and flash

pro's:
make just about everything professional games and programs you name it

con's:
is extremely hard to learn

Kina Figured

or flash action script
con's:
really expensive, get a free trial first

Already got flash a LONG time ago lol


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Cinjection

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Posted at: 1/1/09 10:58 PM

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At 1/1/09 09:26 PM, sasuke2910 wrote: how about C++ is can do EVERY THING, except make websites, and flash

I have a feeling that C++ is going to start getting left behind in the next couple years. More and more programmers are starting to realize that it wastes their time. C is in a place where it won't go away. It's pretty unique like that. It's the language for low-level programming.

C++ doesn't really stand out like that. You really shouldn't be using C++ if you want to write low-level procedural code. Although it's possible, C++ is more tailored to OOP development. The thing with that is, there are a lot of other languages that let you do the same thing, but with less hassle (Like C#).

So learning C++ might not be as useful as learning something in the .NET area.

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DougyTheFreshmaker

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Posted at: 1/1/09 11:29 PM

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So learning C++ might not be as useful as learning something in the .NET area.

I had wanted to sidebar this out in my original post, but decided not to. If the definition of 'useful' here is taken to be how the knowledge of a language affects your chances in the job market, then C#, I would say, is much more 'useful' than C++ by a widening margin. In that sense, though, it's probably on par with Java and possibly even less 'useful' than PHP/VB (see a pattern?). It's really a matter of what the OP's goals are specifically. If they're to become a better programmer, I'd still suggest C++. C# is by no means a poor choice, though, if the OP wants to focus on something more practical in terms of employment going forward.

And to the OP, I was hoping my 'hello world' analogy would have been an obvious exaggeration. The point is that you don't know the language well enough to say that you 'know it', and the same is likely true of other languages you claim to know. You wouldn't have made this post if it weren't.

If you're hellbent on 'learning' a new language, and crossing the paradigm boundary proves too difficult (as I imagine it will be due to your AS3 reactions, which doesn't even cross said boundary), then C# would actually be an okay route to take, I guess.

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StarCleaver

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Posted at: 1/2/09 12:30 AM

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I'm going to make a plug for Scala. Scala incorporates most object-oriented paradigms found in Java (if not all of them), but also adds some functional programming paradigms as well. It is a strictly typed language but it also employs a type inference system that helps to reduce the amount of code needed as compared to a language such as Java. Many of its libraries are based on ideas and concepts in other languages, such as the Actors library being based on Erlang's concurrency model (i.e. asynchronous message passing).

Is Scala widely used in the market? I doubt it. Is it a good language for teaching yourself fundamentals of programming? Absolutely.

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CronoMan

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Posted at: 1/2/09 06:21 AM

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At 1/1/09 09:26 PM, sasuke2910 wrote: how about C++ is can do EVERY THING, except make websites, and flash

you can make websites with C++ with CGI, writing an ISAPI module or using ASP.NET

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BillysProgrammer

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Posted at: 1/2/09 10:39 AM

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At 1/1/09 11:29 PM, DougyTheFreshmaker wrote: If you're hellbent on 'learning' a new language, and crossing the paradigm boundary proves too difficult (as I imagine it will be due to your AS3 reactions, which doesn't even cross said boundary), then C# would actually be an okay route to take, I guess.

Ok, thanks a lot Dougy, very good posts btw. I will definititly have to look into C#

But so you know, over the past 5 years ive learnt them, so I know them pretty well I guess. But thanks again.


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littleMonsterGames

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Posted at: 1/2/09 02:10 PM

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At 1/1/09 09:03 PM, DearonElensar wrote: Here is a radical idea, learn good programming practice before you do anything else.

Yep. I'd suggest going with java or c++ and learn how to program really, really well.

The LittleMonsterGames website: http://www.littlemonstergames.com - super fun, I promise :)

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littleMonsterGames

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Posted at: 1/2/09 02:11 PM

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At 1/1/09 09:26 PM, sasuke2910 wrote: how about C++ is can do EVERY THING, except make websites, and flash
...
con's:
is extremely hard to learn

It's not that hard. It's a lot like actionscript.

The LittleMonsterGames website: http://www.littlemonstergames.com - super fun, I promise :)

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GustTheASGuy

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Posted at: 1/2/09 04:27 PM

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At 1/2/09 02:11 PM, littleMonsterGames wrote: It's not that hard. It's a lot like actionscript.

To quote, "But about AS3, its to confusing for me, just the amount of things to make 1 thing happen, "

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