WHAT IF World War 2 was actually started or was started as a result of the United States?
I had this thought the other day, which while it may not make much sense, i still found it quite an interesting idea...
After WW1, there were still many great powers in existence, the US, the British Empire, France and a quickly emerging Soviet Union.
Well, what if in a clever strategy the United States thought to eliminate its rivals in Europe by covertly funding the future Fuhrer of Germany.
Because despite the economic climate in Germany at the time, its still difficult to believe that the German peoples would have been so deluded into willingly voting in what was before a minor political party, with extremely radical ideas.
How did the Nazi party manage to gain such support among the German populace? Perhaps Hitler really was just extremely charismatic and knew how to sway people to his way of thinking, but that only goes so far. He needed resources and money to expand the Nazis operations nationwide across Germany, and where did these resources come from? America!
Think, going by his early speeches before he was even elected, it was terribly obvious that his goals were the conquest of Europe and by funding his regime, the United States could ensure that Nazi Germany would become strong enough to physically exhaust Europe by the wars end (which it almost accomplished).
As the initial shots were fired in Europe, America had managed to avoid physically entering the war, with claim of 'isolationism' and only gave supplies to Nations under threat in Europe. Sure American ships were lost here and there, but what wouldn't be willing to risk a few naval vessels and the crew within for the prize of becoming the world's sole Super power?
In the east, the Americans also had there eyes set on prizes in the east. Japan was in the middle of invading China, and where receiving the bulk of these supplies needed for the war effort from the US, after cutting the Japanese off, the Americans knew an attack was imminent and by 'dropping' information, ensured that the Japanese would attack pearl harbour at exactly the right time, to cause enough damage to sway the American minds in favour of war.
With America now at war with Japan, and with a mighty fleet of ships, the Americans began to island hop all the way across the pacific towards Japan.
Meanwhile in Europe, France was lost, Nazi Germany was pushing eastwards, fighting a bloody but successful war against the soviets. And The British had ultimately failed in there attempt to liberate France at the battle Dunkirk.
As all seemed lost for the allied nations of Europe, the British had managed to, against all odds, Win the battle of Britain and maintain control over British skies, thus denying the Germans an easy conquest of Britain. However Britain was left in ruins after this attack and wouldn't truly recover for many years after the war.
While in the good ol' US of A. The American scientists were hard at work building the Atom Bomb, which when completed, would provide an unsurpassed military advantage that would prove fundamental in realising Americas dreams...
However things were going badly in Europe, Due to public outcry in America, the US government was forced to send troops to aid the British in retaking France, and against all odds, they succeeded in the D-Day landings, and with many American Military commanders keen to push towards Berlin, the American government had to alter its plans for Europe.
On the other side of Europe, The Soviet Union had managed to win a decisive victory at Stalingrad, and was now slowly pushing westwards and reclaiming and 'liberating' any territories it passed through. Something the Americans most definitely didn't have in mind.
With the war in the Pacific nearly all but won, all the Americans needed to do were force an unconditional surrender of Japanese forces and occupy Japan. As Japan refused to allow American troops free reign on Japanese soil, the decision was made to show the true power of American military might. The Atom bomb, which promptly caused to the Japanese to raise there arms in defeat.
Meanwhile in Europe, it was now a race between America aided by British and Canadian forces to reach Berlin before the Soviets.
In the end, the war was won, the soviets may have reached Berlin first but Germany was still divided.
The war was won. But the US plans were thwarted.
While the British Empire had collapsed and all other European countries that could have been a threat were in rubble, from the ashes another Superpower emerged that would challenge United States supremacy for another 40 years.
Had everything gone to plan With America has the sole superpower, it could have easily have simply annexed Japan into a US territory, with no one to challenge its claims to the area. And with no one to fight in Europe, who's to say that it wouldn't have annexed territories in Europe with the promise of rebuilding them once the American flag was being flown over there buildings?
But due to the rise of the Soviet Union, the USA needed to play the good guys, install an independent, pro American democratic government in Japan and West Germany and spend Billions of dollars to rebuild Western Europe in an effort to gain support in order to maintain its position above the Union. Militaraly, economically and technologically.
And so we have an American conspiracy that while it didn't quite go as planned, in the end America still became to the sole dominant power in the world. Even without territories in Asia or Europe.
Though due to the recent economic crisis, is America's position threatened?
If any of you read that, bear in mind that it was just thought that passed through my head while I was going to bed the other night. I still found it an interesting thought though
If the guy named conspiracy says that theory is insane, you know it is insane.
Though your theory is certainly beyond belief, its true in a way. While the US didn't exactly plan WWII, I believe Roosevelt allowed the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor(we recieved warnings before and on that day) to give us the greatest excuse for entering and saving our economy because he saw the potential WWII had in restoring our power. Call it crazy, call it cruel, I wouldn't put it past any President to do such a thing when millions of people's futures are at stake.
At 12/28/08 02:35 PM, zoolrule wrote: Dude.. no.
Why no? Its just as legitimate a theory as some others i've heard over the years
At 12/28/08 02:39 PM, SonicSheep wrote:At 12/28/08 02:35 PM, zoolrule wrote: Dude.. no.Why no? Its just as legitimate a theory as some others i've heard over the years
Just what others are you looking at? I've heard theories from people who've had their brains destroyed by crack and Rosie O'Donnelle that make more sense this shit!
If life gives you lemons, read the fine print; chances are, there's a monthly fee attached.
At 12/28/08 12:22 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: If the guy named conspiracy says that theory is insane, you know it is insane.
I loved this.
I have to agree with Conspiracy.
It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both.
At 12/28/08 04:09 PM, Patton3 wrote:
Just what others are you looking at? I've heard theories from people who've had their brains destroyed by crack and Rosie O'Donnelle that make more sense this shit!
Well for starts, I said I dont believe the theory I posted, I was just curious as to what others thought of it.
However, im curious to what part of what I wrote was more insane that your 'theories from people who've had their brains destroyed by crack and Rosie O'Donnelle'.
Considering the US actually did use methods similar to what I posted to start a war in the late 19th century to take lands owned by the spanish, known as the 'Spanish-American' war.
At 12/28/08 04:41 PM, SonicSheep wrote: Considering the US actually did use methods similar to what I posted to start a war in the late 19th century to take lands owned by the spanish, known as the 'Spanish-American' war.
The US government did exploit the explosion of the USS Maine but it did not cause the explosion.
Siggy
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At 12/28/08 04:44 PM, aninjaman wrote:
The US government did exploit the explosion of the USS Maine but it did not cause the explosion.
I thought there were no proven facts on the USS Maine? Ideas perhaps but nothing for certain.
And that opens the door ways to a wide range of other equally radical and seemingly bizarre Conspiracy theories.
At 12/28/08 04:58 PM, SonicSheep wrote:At 12/28/08 04:44 PM, aninjaman wrote:The US government did exploit the explosion of the USS Maine but it did not cause the explosion.I thought there were no proven facts on the USS Maine? Ideas perhaps but nothing for certain.
And that opens the door ways to a wide range of other equally radical and seemingly bizarre Conspiracy theories.
I guess thats true but then again nothing is really for certain so you can make conpioracy theories for anything. I think the US government probably wouldnt have had to kill a whole shipful of soldiers if they wanted to invade Cuba.
Siggy
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At 12/28/08 02:09 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: to give us the greatest excuse for entering and saving our economy because he saw the potential WWII had in restoring our power. Call it crazy, call it cruel, I wouldn't put it past any President to do such a thing when millions of people's futures are at stake.
but the US already had justification, many of its allies were already involved.
Wow, yeah that is crap.
I mean I know the US started the shit w/ the "japs" but what you said is all crap.
it's arguable whether the united states knew about the attacks on pearl harbor, but even if they did know about the attacks they could not have possibly managed to convince japan into attacking the united states... if you're going to argue that it was the united states that first industrialized japan in the 1800's you should remember that that was nearly a century before, [1854-1941] so you're telling me that the united states would have had plans that were thought out that many years before. There's a difference between letting an attack happen and actually starting the fight.
with germany, it's even more farfetched. Nazism took rise as a result of the treaty of Versailles... so the united states would have had to have planned both wwI and wwII, also, it would have required that the united states have secretly convinced the european nations to punish germany with the treaty SOMEHOW knowing that germany would get pissed and hitler would come to power [who was only a soldier at the time]
So yeh... the chances are really low.
On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.
At 12/28/08 09:42 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote: it's arguable whether the united states knew about the attacks on pearl harbor, but even if they did know about the attacks they could not have possibly managed to convince japan into attacking the united states...
the prevoked the attacks by using US pilots to bomb japan in allied planes.
America's involvement in WWII started after the war had already begun. It sent equipment, weapons, supplies and personell to its allies in europe. When the US heard about what is known as "The Rape of Nanking" the president (FDR) ordered that all US oil shipments to Japan be stopped. Imperial Japan responded by planning and carrying out the attack on pearl harbor. In response to this attack the US declared war on Japan. Germany, an ally of Japan, declared war on the US.
Saying we knew about pearl harbor and let it happen is specious at best. True, there were reports that Japan was planning to retaliate for our cutting off their oil, but as far as I know, none of those reports specifically mentioned pearl harbor. True they had radar installations on the island at the time, but it was a very new technology that few fully understood. Also they were expecting two US carriers (U.S.S. Enterprise and U.S.S. Lexington) to arrive that morning. They didn't know the two ships had been delayed by a storm at sea and wouldn't arrive until later in the day.
Find your own answers and you'll stop beliving the propoganda
hmmmmm. interesting view. i think its possible but you never know for sure. lIke in the JFK assassination. It could be some big government cover up. and yea. the US could have supplied germany with resources in order to wear down the economies of britan, france, italy, and russia. and then the US comes in to save the day and look like a big hero.... makes sense...
The Only Thing Greater Than My Ego Is My Greatness
yea.. i was wondering too about how Germany could possibly rebuild its economy in such a short period
and even more, to conquer a really big part of Europe with its blitzkrieg in such a short time
where they could get so many air plains and armor if their economy was totally destroyed a few years back
At 12/30/08 05:52 PM, Snicp wrote: yea.. i was wondering too about how Germany could possibly rebuild its economy in such a short period
and even more, to conquer a really big part of Europe with its blitzkrieg in such a short time
where they could get so many air plains and armor if their economy was totally destroyed a few years back
They didnt rebuild their economy. Hitler just took already existing factories and made them weapons factories. Then after taking over countries Hitler took money from their governments to pay for things in Germany. Also many things were stolen from holocaust victims.
Siggy
Feeling angsty?
At 12/30/08 06:12 PM, aninjaman wrote: They didnt rebuild their economy. Hitler just took already existing factories and made them weapons factories. Then after taking over countries Hitler took money from their governments to pay for things in Germany. Also many things were stolen from holocaust victims.
so till they conquered some countries to get money they fought with sticks and stones?
At 12/30/08 06:12 PM, aninjaman wrote: They didnt rebuild their economy. Hitler just took already existing factories and made them weapons factories.
Not true. Under Hitler lots and lots of new factories were built, new infrastructure programs... etc. etc. Hitler wasn't purely focused on weapons at the beginning, he actually did quite a bit to help the economy. Unemployment went from being some ridiculous figure to being almost 0%. Inflation which rendered the Deutschmark almost worthless (people burned it in fires to keep warm during the worst years of the Weimar Republic) had decreased.
Then after taking over countries Hitler took money from their governments to pay for things in Germany.
Of course. But the economy was already better.
Also many things were stolen from holocaust victims.
Yes, including their hair. It's fucked, but it has nothing to do with the topic.
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At 12/30/08 06:18 PM, Tancrisism wrote:Also many things were stolen from holocaust victims.Yes, including their hair. It's fucked, but it has nothing to do with the topic.
wait didn't the holocaust happen in WW2? which means after they rebuilt the economy
At 12/30/08 06:23 PM, Snicp wrote:At 12/30/08 06:18 PM, Tancrisism wrote:wait didn't the holocaust happen in WW2? which means after they rebuilt the economyAlso many things were stolen from holocaust victims.Yes, including their hair. It's fucked, but it has nothing to do with the topic.
Right, but it wasn't instrumental in rebuilding the economy, like aninjaman seems to imply.
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At 12/30/08 06:15 PM, Snicp wrote: so till they conquered some countries to get money they fought with sticks and stones?
* They had a war economy. Hitler turned his country into a war factory.
* Sticks and stones? They weren't stupid, they had the great engineers and scientists at the time.
* They already had the billions of billions they took from the German Jews, before WW2 = A lot of money
* Millions in forced labor. Says anything to you?
I just pulled these facts quickly, there are many subject i forgot.
Plus, instead of asking random dumb question, you should read and educated yourself. Thank you
At 12/30/08 06:24 PM, Tancrisism wrote:At 12/30/08 06:23 PM, Snicp wrote:Right, but it wasn't instrumental in rebuilding the economy, like aninjaman seems to imply.At 12/30/08 06:18 PM, Tancrisism wrote:wait didn't the holocaust happen in WW2? which means after they rebuilt the economyAlso many things were stolen from holocaust victims.Yes, including their hair. It's fucked, but it has nothing to do with the topic.
I was saying it was part of helping their economy. Not the main part but still a part.
Siggy
Feeling angsty?
At 12/30/08 06:25 PM, zoolrule wrote:At 12/30/08 06:15 PM, Snicp wrote: so till they conquered some countries to get money they fought with sticks and stones?* They had a war economy. Hitler turned his country into a war factory.
Not purely. Hitler focused a lot on helping the workers in his country as well. It became a highly efficient country as well as a war factory.
This is when Volkswagen started, so that every German citizen could have an affordable car. A Wagen für die Völker.
* Sticks and stones? They weren't stupid, they had the great engineers and scientists at the time.
* They already had the billions of billions they took from the German Jews, before WW2 = A lot of money
Hardly a year before WW2.
* Millions in forced labor. Says anything to you?
Still, this didn't happen very much until WW2.
Don't let your bias about how ridiculously horrible Hitler and his administration were let you cloud what he actually did achieve before WW2.
Fancy Signature
ok, in a way you make sense, this has given me a lot to think about.....
At 12/28/08 02:09 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote: Though your theory is certainly beyond belief, its true in a way. While the US didn't exactly plan WWII, I believe Roosevelt allowed the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor(we recieved warnings before and on that day) to give us the greatest excuse for entering and saving our economy because he saw the potential WWII had in restoring our power.
I've heard that theory before. Yet if it were true, we would not have had all of our Battleships at anchor. See up until this point, US Naval Doctrine was that the Battleship was at the core of Naval Power. FDR was the Navy Secretary at one point and as such was part of the apparatus that devised this thinkings. This is important because the Pearl Harbor "Truthers" point to the fact that no carriers were bombed as proof that there is a conspiracy. They point to the fact that carriers proved to be vital to the US victory. This is not the result of forward thinking on the part of the government and military...but rather having to go to war with the military you have instead of the military you want.
Therefore, if he had allowed Pearl Harbor to happen he would have had our carriers (at the time support ships to the Battleship-centric Battle Group) at anchor...while our Battleships were on manuevers.
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maybe the Japanese and USA had a ake war but in the end they betrayed the Japanese?
At 12/28/08 10:20 PM, djbdr248 wrote:
the prevoked the attacks by using US pilots to bomb japan in allied planes.
Can anybody translate this?
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