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At 1/6/09 04:21 AM, zoolrule wrote:

At 1/6/09 02:01 AM, bcdemon wrote:

ROFL, when zoolrule mentioned the price of rocket fuel I googled it and that was the first link I got. I was going to post it to see if he realized what it actually was. But considering I was warned about my post content (?), I figured I better keep it on the up and up.

Try Potassium nitrate, Urea nitrate, and TNT rocket heads, enough to drive an ambulance for few weeks.

Really? And I mean seriously really? Ambulances require diesel fuel, not explosives. And getting some of that rocket fuel into an ambulance would be pretty tough, see image below.

People talk about the media being bias against Israel. But I have been watching CNN regularly and they talk as though hundreds of Israelis die each day due to rocket attacks. Tonight Anderson Cooper showed where a rocket landed at a bus stop, the funny part was, there was only a 1.5 square foot hole in the ground, a bunch of small shrapnel holes in the concrete, but no sign of explosion. Then he says, this is the nightmare Israelis live with day to day. That's peanuts compared to the explosions they have been showing from Gaza. Explosions that light up the entire night sky, obliterating entire apartment buildings, that house ONLY Hamas members of course.

try few dozens of these, every day, for 8 years. Living in the shelters.
You are so stupid it's astonishing, i bet you wouldn't even be able to see what's fucked up in your message.

Actually I do, the word "funny" isn't bold in the quoted text as it is in my actual post. Silly BBS.

And another thing, how come when Hamas fires its Katyusha rockets, that have 0 guidance systems except the general direction and an approximate distance, they are accused of "targeting civilians".

It's actually accurate distance and direct direction. They are 100% able to target the cities, but cannot target which place in the city, that's called targeting civilians.

Actually, without a guidance system to hit a specific target, they are not targeting anything in particular, but the city. That's the ONLY thing they can count on hitting. And they usually can't even count on that.

It's funny that you talk from your nice house in Canada.

No, not really, I have lived here (Canada) the majority of my life, and I do talk, so it's a pretty common event.

Yet when Israel launches a GPS and Laser guided missile that takes out a family of innocent civilians, it's an accident?

They are hiding in civilians homes, shooting rockets from civilian homes, and our objective is to protect our civilians. If you actually think Hamas give a fuck about "their civilian" life you are are a retard.

You make it sound like every Palestinian civilian killed was standing next to a Hamas member.
I don't think Hamas gives a rip about your everyday Palestinian. No different than the Israelis in that regard.

Just me thinking out loud.

How could someone be so stupid, to actually think an army would shoot a missile costing more than 100,000$ just to kill a family. How stupid can you be to ignore again and again the fact that Gaza is very populated, and Hamas are using it's people as human shield. While Israelis are spending billions on finding ways to protect it's citizens. It's that simple.

The IDF possibly looks at it like, 'if we kill 4 Palestinian children, that's 4 less people to fear in the future'.
Again, you make it sound like every Palestinian civilian killed was standing next to a Hamas member.

At 1/6/09 08:59 AM, bcdemon wrote:
The IDF possibly looks at it like, 'if we kill 4 Palestinian children, that's 4 less people to fear in the future'.
Again, you make it sound like every Palestinian civilian killed was standing next to a Hamas member.

Now you're just making up shit, there is no way you believe Israel is trying to kill every single Arab.

At 1/6/09 09:43 AM, therealsylvos wrote:

At 1/6/09 08:59 AM, bcdemon wrote:
The IDF possibly looks at it like, 'if we kill 4 Palestinian children, that's 4 less people to fear in the future'.
Again, you make it sound like every Palestinian civilian killed was standing next to a Hamas member.

Now you're just making up shit, there is no way you believe Israel is trying to kill every single Arab.

As a matter of fact, whether or not the Israelies are trying to kill of every arab they can is sort of unimportant. Is it not so that it is more important how Israels actions in Gaza are perceived rather than what they are actually doing? "Vengeance" scream some, "Genocide" cry others.

At 1/6/09 09:43 AM, therealsylvos wrote:

At 1/6/09 08:59 AM, bcdemon wrote:
The IDF possibly looks at it like, 'if we kill 4 Palestinian children, that's 4 less people to fear in the future'.
Again, you make it sound like every Palestinian civilian killed was standing next to a Hamas member.

Now you're just making up shit, there is no way you believe Israel is trying to kill every single Arab.

Notice the word "possibly"? It was put there for a reason.
And I don't believe the Israelis want every Arab dead, nor do I believe that the Arabs want every Israeli dead. Hell, Ahmadinejad doesn't even want every Israeli/Jew dead. Out of the Middle East yes, but not dead.

According to an Israeli police officer, 500 rockets have been fired into Israel, and only 2 or 3 people have died. Man, if Hamas is actually targeting civilians, they suck balls at it.

So far, 6 Israeli soldiers have died, Israel killed 4 of them, Hamas killed the other 2.

As a side note, I have been reading the Koran, and I just found this:

"...commit not suicide - of a truth God is merciful to you." - Sura 4.34

The suicide bombers are obviously being manipulated by politicians who are using the idea of the jihad and the "cause of Allah" for their own doings. The Koran explicitly says not to kill yourself, and it says that the Koran is the direct word of god, so wouldn't it be feasible that suicide bombing in the name of Allah is actually going directly against him, even if it is to supposedly help what you think his plans are?

At 1/6/09 11:10 AM, Tancrisism wrote: As a side note, I have been reading the Koran, and I just found this:

"...commit not suicide - of a truth God is merciful to you." - Sura 4.34

I just did a quick google of Sura 4.34 and it refers to Muslim men beating their wives.

But I did find this: http://www.faridi.net/quran/?chapter=4
4:29 : O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!

4:30 If any do that in rancour [hate] and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for Allah.

So yeah, basically the Quran says not to kill yourself. I think the misconception on the part of some Muslims (the radical ones) is that, the idea of throwing oneself onto Allah to protect him from an attack would be seen as suicidal, surely if someone were to attack Allah, they are attacking to kill him. So suicide in the name of (protecting) Allah is just fine, according to some.

But I have never read one line of the Quran until just now, so what do I know.

The Koran completely implies that he does not need protection, though. It constantly stresses that you "believe in him and in the last day", that there will be a day of judgment when those who believe will reach Paradise and those who don't or who don't follow his word will be cast into the fire.

It appears to me like the radicals dismember it and manipulate according to what they decide will be "the will of Allah", which almost undoubtedly is their own agenda. Hamas seems to be no exception, nor does Hezbollah or the Taliban.

Every radical is the same, whether they be Muslim or not. Twisting and misconstruing the words of your Scripture to fit your needs and fufill your agendas is a staple among them all. There are people who will read "Thou shalt not kill" and misinterpret that to an end never thought possible by the author by adding a variety of exceptions never found nor implied in the book anywhere. It's absolutely insane, just like the conflict.

I don't think the situation is any longer a question of purely religion. It's a political issue and the focus should be on establishing a ceasefire. While I absolutely understand Israels position, Hamas has been pretty brutal with their rockets, terrorizing citizens, Israel is dealing with this problem the wrong way. It is in no way a "bad guy, good guy" situation, and they are both to blame. 40 people were killed in the bombing of a school in Gaza today. There is no justification for that, and the reaction to Hamas from Israel is bonefied collective punishment.

But I think it's important to look at why Hamas harrasing Israel with rockets, and it is due to an overwhelming cluster of checkpoints and blockades amongst other things. I don't support Hamas, nor do I support Israel but I feel Israel needs to be the adult here, they are more developed and are more able.

At 1/6/09 02:45 PM, Jizzlebang wrote: I don't support Hamas, nor do I support Israel but I feel Israel needs to be the adult here, they are more developed and are more able.

I agree completely with your position, I think.

At 1/6/09 12:54 PM, bcdemon wrote: 4:29 : O ye who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves in vanities: But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily Allah hath been to you Most Merciful!

What do the parentheses signify? A possible different translation or is that part of the original text?
Because kill and destroy create a few problems here......

It seems out of the blue to talk about suicide when the the surrounding text talks about not being a miser.

It seems to me the passage isn't talking about killing yourself, but a warning that being a stingy bastard is a path of self-destruction, and an unnecessary one at that because "Allah hath been to you most merciful" (ie, life is pretty rich and plentiful).

At 1/6/09 02:45 PM, Jizzlebang wrote: But I think it's important to look at why Hamas harrasing Israel with rockets, and it is due to an overwhelming cluster of checkpoints and blockades amongst other things. I don't support Hamas, nor do I support Israel but I feel Israel needs to be the adult here, they are more developed and are more able.

I am amazed on how people don't realize what Hamas are.

The reason they shoot rockets is because they are at terror organization. Irrational terror organization, the reason they KEEP on shooting rockets is because people back them up and sympathize with them, so why would they stop? They only earn from it. Killing Israelis + worldwide supported terror organization.

How can you say it has anything to do with checkpoints and blockades? In 2005 we completely disengaged from Gaza, everything, we didn't have 1 soldier or person in Gaza. While we evacuated they shot rockets at us, after we evacuated they shot rocket at us, and while they violently took over Gaza with the fights against Fatah (Killing few hundred of civilians with them), they shot rocket at us.
It has nothing to do with us. They shoot rockets because it's what they are.

I believe that the fact we did basically nothing for the last 8 years, after the peace process was declined and refused by them. We gave them weapons to control their citizens, gave them 91% of the lands they claimed, and they have blown the whole thing up, since that agreemnt when we were compassionate, the rockets started.
So a decent intelligent person would conclude that the rockets were shot because we tried to do peace with them, but never mind that.

They shoot rockets from civilians homes, schools, mosques etc.
Hamas are kidnapping children in the streets to escort their units, so they wont be attacked by the IDF.
They put civilians on the roofs of Hamas buildings, so they wouldn't be bombed.
They burst into civilian houses (their own, of course), lock them in, and start fighting the IDF from there. the hundreds of injured civilians? That's why.
The leaders of Hamas are hiding in a bunker under Shifa hospital. I bet that location is NOT IN PURPOSE AT ALL.

Stop justifying them, they are evil. We were adults for the last 8 years, enough is enough.

At 1/6/09 03:42 PM, Doonie wrote: Stop justifying them, they are evil. We were adults for the last 8 years, enough is enough.

I don't think he was criticizing the current Israeli handling of the situation in the broad way you are thinking. He is criticising the mentality of Israelis that causes things like a UN school to be bombed by a precision airstrike, or the 13 year old girl to be killed by the soldier.

I personally hope that Israel destroys Hamas. But occurrences like these are not going to help Israel's cause in the long run.

At 1/6/09 04:20 PM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 1/6/09 03:42 PM, Doonie wrote: Stop justifying them, they are evil. We were adults for the last 8 years, enough is enough.

I don't think he was criticizing the current Israeli handling of the situation in the broad way you are thinking. He is criticising the mentality of Israelis that causes things like a UN school to be bombed by a precision airstrike, or the 13 year old girl to be killed by the soldier.

Mentality? Mentality would be if we would destroy School every day, mentality would be if we killed a 13 year old girl every day. It's a war, and it's a war zone. Things like this happen.

The UN school was not bombed by a precision Airstike, the Israeli forces absorbed heavy fire from that building, and called artillery backup to attack the location, some claim they didn't even know it was school, but i doubt that. Anyway, the Israeli intelligence estimates more than 10 high Hamas officers were killed, and two top Hamas commanders killed.
So it's not so simple. El Jazeera' sneaked photographers keep on editing the videos that show civilians blaming Hamas, few of them leaked to the internet.
It's a war zone, it's a war zone that Hamas are using civilians and children as human shields, it's impossible to avoid it, and it will end when Hamas are taken down, or when we are guaranteed that smuggling weapons, and rockets shooting will be stopped.

I personally hope that Israel destroys Hamas. But occurrences like these are not going to help Israel's cause in the long run.

occurrences like this are unavoidable and they happen, and they are Hamas's fault. (Hamas's goal would be even more accurate)

At 1/6/09 04:32 PM, Doonie wrote: It's a war zone, it's a war zone that Hamas are using civilians and children as human shields, it's impossible to avoid it, and it will end when Hamas are taken down, or when we are guaranteed that smuggling weapons, and rockets shooting will be stopped.

Why are you being so defensive? I said that was right. That doesn't mean that Israel has the right to kill anybody it wants, though. The Palestinians are still human. But yes, the goal here is to destroy Hamas, and I hope this happens.

occurrences like this are unavoidable and they happen, and they are Hamas's fault. (Hamas's goal would be even more accurate)

An Israeli killing a 13 year old girl is Hamas' fault? Christ man.

Isreal invading Gaza is totally legit. Hell, I'd even support them, but only if they do no go further and take over Egypt. That would be not legit and uncalled for.

About the 13 yr old being killed 'is' Hamas' fault. Think about this for a bit: They use human shields, like what Donnie said. Now, first off, a thirteen year old girl is not about to give her life up for anything. Unless she is one of those religius fanatics that you stereotypicly hear yelling 'Allah akbar!', then she would most likely have been kidnapped. Having said that, being kidnapped means that those who took her to be used as a human shields are kidnappers, and kidnappers usually take people w/o consent. That puts the blame of the death of that girl on the kidnapper.

If the girl was a person willing to give up her life, then fine, whatever. Now, what do you think is more cowardly, hiding behind a thirteen year old girl, or hiding behind a wall?

At 1/6/09 10:01 PM, Phox2 wrote: Isreal invading Gaza is totally legit. Hell, I'd even support them, but only if they do no go further and take over Egypt. That would be not legit and uncalled for.

About the 13 yr old being killed 'is' Hamas' fault. Think about this for a bit: They use human shields, like what Donnie said. Now, first off, a thirteen year old girl is not about to give her life up for anything. Unless she is one of those religius fanatics that you stereotypicly hear yelling 'Allah akbar!', then she would most likely have been kidnapped. Having said that, being kidnapped means that those who took her to be used as a human shields are kidnappers, and kidnappers usually take people w/o consent. That puts the blame of the death of that girl on the kidnapper.

If the girl was a person willing to give up her life, then fine, whatever. Now, what do you think is more cowardly, hiding behind a thirteen year old girl, or hiding behind a wall?

You should have read the story about little Imam before commenting on the subject. She was shot by an Israeli soldier while she crossed a field. There WERE NO HAMAS MEMBERS PRESENT. One Israeli soldier identified her as "scared to death". Captain R as the IDF identifies him emptied his clip into this little girl for no reason other than she was a Palestinian. The IDF immediately denied any wrongdoing, but an audio tape of the military chatter proved otherwise. Captain R was not jailed or punished.

Israel uses Human Shields as well. Except the IDF holds their human shield at gun point, or handcuffs him to the hood of their jeep. Hell, it wasn't until 2005 that the IDF made using human shields illegal, the Geneva Conventions made it a war crime in 1949. I know what you're going to say, "but hamas uses them too", but remember, Israel is supposed to be the NON-radical group right, the civilized group, for them to use similar tactics as a terrorist group says a lot about them.

At 1/7/09 07:19 AM, bcdemon wrote:

You should have read the story about little Imam before commenting on the subject. She was shot by an Israeli soldier while she crossed a field. There WERE NO HAMAS MEMBERS PRESENT. One Israeli soldier identified her as "scared to death". Captain R as the IDF identifies him emptied his clip into this little girl for no reason other than she was a Palestinian. The IDF immediately denied any wrongdoing, but an audio tape of the military chatter proved otherwise. Captain R was not jailed or punished.

Israel uses Human Shields as well. Except the IDF holds their human shield at gun point, or handcuffs him to the hood of their jeep. Hell, it wasn't until 2005 that the IDF made using human shields illegal, the Geneva Conventions made it a war crime in 1949. I know what you're going to say, "but hamas uses them too", but remember, Israel is supposed to be the NON-radical group right, the civilized group, for them to use similar tactics as a terrorist group says a lot about them.

I love it how you keep showing the same old story, and that same old picture, for so many times. I must have seen this for 1000 times already, there are crazy people. And that kid tied on the jeep could be for so many reasons.
Hell, do you compare a kid tied to a jeep, that is put there because stones are being thrown at them, after the kid probably thrown stones himself? Once a .. year? And it's not even in combat, just a kid tied to a parked jeep, it's not like they are driving it in combat with the kid on the car.

And again, are you even comparing it to systematical and tactical method of using your own population of children and women as human shields.
Actually, how can you even use the argument of "children" dead when these are your children

Can you even compare these incident few doubtful incident to these: ?

Innocent Palestinian children

The girl Who lost her 4 brothers and sisters? Even she is blaming Hamas. I mean, fuck, what more do you want?.

And that's some video of some decent Arab living in Saudi Arabia made. Please. PLEASE watch it and all of it. Thank you. Tell me what did you think of it as well.

Part 1
Part 2

Al-Qaida is now blaming Obama for not trying to stop the conflict, I guess they don't realize that he hasn't taken office yet.

At 1/7/09 07:41 AM, zoolrule wrote: I love it how you keep showing the same old story, and that same old picture, for so many times.

If people keep assuming she was killed because a Hamas member was using her as a human shield, then I will keep posting the truth in order to correct them.

And that's some video of some decent Arab living in Saudi Arabia made. Please. PLEASE watch it and all of it. Thank you. Tell me what did you think of it as well.

Sorry man, but I don't have time to watch 35 minutes of youtube videos. Get me some actual news stories from credible news agencies and I will spend a moment reading them.

Update:

Rockets have been fired from Lebanon into Israel. They have downplayed the occurrence, but I personally doubt that these will stop and that they won't be dealt with seriously. Peace is not going to happen any time soon.