Do you believe in fate?

[Proottalfain]

The title isn't meant to be misleading, I am really asking you, do you believe in fate?
Do you think we REALLY have the choice?
Do you think things COULD have happened differently?

These questions mean basically the same thing, but I'm reformulating so that you see what I mean by fate.

[evil-clown-12]

Of course I don't believe in fate. There is no higher purpose or meaning, nothing is predetermined.

[Lost-Chances]

I believe in "if shit can happen, shit will happen".

[AwfulAwful]

At 12/19/08 08:27 PM, evil-clown-12 wrote: Of course I don't believe in fate. There is no higher purpose or meaning, nothing is predetermined.

You have no higher purpose or meaning.
That is your fate.

[InsertFunnyUserName]

Fate is bullshit.

It's an excuse for people to blame all the bad things that happen to them on a higher power and refuse to take responsibility for the fact that a whole crapload of those bad things are consequences to stupid choices they made in the past.

Everything is a consequence of something. There is no divine intervention in our lives that decides what happens.

[evil-clown-12]

At 12/19/08 08:28 PM, AwfulAwful wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:27 PM, evil-clown-12 wrote: Of course I don't believe in fate. There is no higher purpose or meaning, nothing is predetermined.

You have no higher purpose or meaning.
That is your fate.

Fate doesn't exist. If you believe in anything, you're a moron.

[THESNOOPESGUY]

Fate doesn't exist. If you believe in anything, you're a moron.

that's not necessarily true.

[Proottalfain]

At 12/19/08 08:28 PM, InsertFunnyUserName wrote: Fate is bullshit.

It's an excuse for people to blame all the bad things that happen to them on a higher power and refuse to take responsibility for the fact that a whole crapload of those bad things are consequences to stupid choices they made in the past.

Everything is a consequence of something. There is no divine intervention in our lives that decides what happens.

You exactly think like I do, except for one detail : I BELIEVE in fate. Not in a spiritual or religious fate. I believe in a scientific fate. When an object collides with another object, their speeds change, and all that is pre-determined, predictable. Same with chemistry. Mix potassium with water, and you know what's gonna happen.

Now where is choice? Choice is a set of chemical reactions and shit happening in our brain. Our reaction to an event depends on our personality (which is in the DNA), our experience in life and our mood (the mood is determined by our (daily) experience, our personality and some hormones).

My point is that every single thing people do is predictable. We aren't yet able to predict everything, but psychology can predict a whole lot of things.

[SEABEAR]

At 12/19/08 08:29 PM, evil-clown-12 wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:28 PM, AwfulAwful wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:27 PM, evil-clown-12 wrote: Of course I don't believe in fate. There is no higher purpose or meaning, nothing is predetermined.

You have no higher purpose or meaning.
That is your fate.

Fate doesn't exist. If you believe in anything, you're a moron.

Says Evil-clown-12.

[Lost-Chances]

At 12/19/08 08:36 PM, Proottalfain wrote: but psychology can predict a whole lot of things.

You couldn't be further from the truth.

[Proottalfain]

At 12/19/08 08:37 PM, Fyndir wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:36 PM, Proottalfain wrote: My point is that every single thing people do is predictable.

Prove it.

Who does the weirdest things? Such as shouting non-sense gibberish and running around Time square nude. Is it some normal serious businessman? Is it the person people would never have thought he would have done it? No, it's either a mad guy, or a serious businessman that lost his wife, his kids and his job in 1 hour.

Every time a catastrophe happens that is caused by a human, we later find out it could have been predicted (Osama Ben Laden was pretty angry against the USA before 9/11). Columbine's shooting was made by 2 boys who were very depressed. A lot of things that are unusual have been done by unusual people or normal people in an unusual state of mind.

[evil-clown-12]

At 12/19/08 08:37 PM, SEABEAR wrote: Says Evil-clown-12.

I feel honoured to be the focus of your first post.

[Proottalfain]

At 12/19/08 08:44 PM, Fyndir wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:42 PM, Proottalfain wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:37 PM, Fyndir wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:36 PM, Proottalfain wrote: My point is that every single thing people do is predictable.

Prove it.

Who does the weirdest things?

None of that was proof of your previous statement.

I deeply appreciate how I try to make it clear and I write paragraphs of arguments and explanations, and you just come up with one-liners with absolutely no argument.

[igott]

Fate is for fairy tales.

[InsertFunnyUserName]

At 12/19/08 08:36 PM, Proottalfain wrote: You exactly think like I do, except for one detail : I BELIEVE in fate. Not in a spiritual or religious fate. I believe in a scientific fate. When an object collides with another object, their speeds change, and all that is pre-determined, predictable. Same with chemistry. Mix potassium with water, and you know what's gonna happen.

Fate isn't not knowing what's going to happen. Those chemical reactions are consequences of other things happening. I'm not talking about just consequences of human action.

Just like I know that the consequence of me punching a wall will be pain. It's not my destiny to be in pain, pain is the consequence of me choosing to punch that wall.

Now where is choice? Choice is a set of chemical reactions and shit happening in our brain. Our reaction to an event depends on our personality (which is in the DNA), our experience in life and our mood (the mood is determined by our (daily) experience, our personality and some hormones).

You're right, there is some aspect of predictability, however, only from even to event. Like I said, the consequence to punching something is pain. Now, there are too many different things that could contribute to that occurrence to call it fate.

You could be angry, you could be in a fight, you could be defending yourself, you could be trying to break something, or you could be looking to hurt yourself. All of those things are choices, really, because regardless of our personalities, we can choose not to do those things. For example, the fact that a person has a masochistic personality doesn't mean that he has to hurt himself. It's a choice.

My point is that every single thing people do is predictable. We aren't yet able to predict everything, but psychology can predict a whole lot of things.

There's a difference between predictable consequences and fate.

Like I've said, most actions have a consequence we can predict, but fate is a set out course. The theory of fate is that your life is already laid out for you and there's nothing you can do to stop that.

[Zepwich]

At 12/19/08 08:25 PM, Proottalfain wrote: The title isn't meant to be misleading, I am really asking you, do you believe in fate?
Do you think we REALLY have the choice?
Do you think things COULD have happened differently?

Read
this i found it really good.

not an oprah book, i'm seriouse it is pretty damn good

[daves234]

well i belive if you belive in religon you have an afterlife if your an atheist you don't have an after life

[Proottalfain]

@InsertFunnyUserName
I like your explanations, and you make me reconsider my thinking, which is interesting. But what I'm saying goes far deeper than just superficial appearances. I'm saying the human brain is like a computer program and reactions go following how we are "programmed". I'm far from being an expert at neurology, but there sure are some kind of physical/chemical phenomenons happening in our brain dictating how we react. And I say as far as we are made only with atoms, a conscious choice should have to be initiated at some point, and that point is the atoms. Now atoms have absolutely no choice. They move right if they are attracted from the right or pushed from the left.

I'm going far and might have lost some of you, if so then I am sorry.

[Toasty3D]

I belive you can control your fate. However, I also believe that people never actually change, they just pretend to, even to themselves.

Kind of backwards, huh?

[InsertFunnyUserName]

At 12/19/08 08:57 PM, Proottalfain wrote: I'm going far and might have lost some of you, if so then I am sorry.

Yes, but that's not fate, that's consequential reactions.

People's personalities are altered by their life experiences and with those changes in their personality come changes in their psychology.

You can't predict life experiences. Life experiences are consequences of actions either made by us or by other people. The fact that some life experiences can be caused by other people automatically shatters the fate argument.

Life experiences can also be the fault of nature, which further argues my point. With every change that happens to a person, their reactions change as well.

And like I said before, people don't only think one way. Human beings have the capacity to make conscious choice. It's not all subconscious.

[LOLZILLA]

No, I do not believe in fate.

[CaptainQuartz]

No. I do not believe in my life being pre-dertermined by some higher being.
I do not believe in karma.

[Proottalfain]

At 12/19/08 09:03 PM, InsertFunnyUserName wrote: And like I said before, people don't only think one way. Human beings have the capacity to make conscious choice. It's not all subconscious.

This will be my last post about this, seeing this goes mostly nowhere. I fail to convince you and you fail to convince me.

I personally see life like a pool table (especially when then are many balls remaining). Let's just exclude what the players are thinking from my example, as it will only make it more complex. When the white ball is hit, it then hits another ball, which then hits another etc. This all ends with almost all the balls getting to move, and good pool players usually want to avoid it because it is very hard to predict. Now you may believe or not in fate, but you must agree that balls have no choice. And we can prove it with physics, because physics can predict where each ball will go. Where some people don't believe me that everything is predictable, is that things like that are just so complex that a tiny inaccuracy can lead to a totally different ending scenario happening. Hit the white ball a degree more to the left and you end up with 4 more balls in the leather pockets.

Considering every human was a pool ball, that would make 6 billion pool balls (VERY HARD TO PREDICT). And now considering that every human's mechanism is far more complex than a single pool ball makes it even harder to predict.

I obviously didn't prove that predictable = fate, but I am getting tired of all this.

[Shawn]

I kinda do but i don't like fate because i don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my own life.

[Proottalfain]

At 12/19/08 09:11 PM, Fyndir wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:57 PM, Proottalfain wrote: I'm going far and might have lost some of you, if so then I am sorry.

Hahaha, that's cute.

The pretentious tool who can't provide a decent proof of his claim thinks he's losing us.

That's just precious, it really is.

You won I got tired of explaining.

I will explain one last thing though : I have lost you not because you fail to understand, but because I fail to explain my point appropriately.

[James-Booner]

Fate is a load of crap. People who think it's real need to have theit head examined.

[Pure-Metal-UTA]

I believe that fate exists, but if you could find a way to know what your fate is, you can change it. If that makes any sense at all.