Death Penalty

[TheZach]

Lately, human life has been portrayed as a very wonderful thing. Back in the day, we had no problem killing someone simply because someone else randomly called them a "witch" Now days, most states in America like to give out the "Life in prison" sentence rather than the death penalty.

Modern society seems to think human life is something special and somehow significant. IMO I think that if people can't use their gift of life in a progressive manner, then we should have no problem taking it away. If a person can't work towards the betterment of human civilization as a whole, then we should have no problem executing them. I think our society should be more pen to the idea executing of dangerous criminals.

I mean, if a person is detrimental to the advancement of our society and our technology, then why the hell should we keep them here? They are holding humanity back and are giving nothing in compensation. They are simply dead weight and the world would be better off without them.

Thoughts?

[Conspiracy3]

As much of a paradox as this sounds the world needs useless people. They need unskilled workers and consumers, otherwise the good people would have no one to exploit.

[InsertFunnyUserName]

Homeless and the poor take money from the government and other organizations and hardly give anything back. They don't contribute to the betterment of society, so does that mean we have the right to kill them all?

Besides, keeping them for life in prison is a much harsher consequence than death.

[poxpower]

The main thing against the death penalty, for me, are:

- You don't want to get any innocents.
- You don't want to give the powers that be the chance to silence individuals permanently.

Death penalty is too easy to abuse and too dangerous. No one should have that power.

And I don't give a shit about the criminal's lives quite frankly. Tough shit for them.

[LazyDrunk]

At 12/18/08 08:42 PM, poxpower wrote: Death penalty is too easy to abuse and too dangerous. No one should have that power.

It's too easy to abuse, both economically with frivolous appeals and morally through wrongful convictions. I think the state should have the power to execute, if not its own citizens then at least its qualifying foreign enemies.

I'll say it now, but I'm pretty sure I'd rather be executed and found not guilty than spend 15-20 years in a federal prison and be found not guilty after my life was already stripped bare.

I think that speaks more about the quality of the justice system compared to the quality of death offered in execution-worthy scenarios.

And I don't give a shit about the criminal's lives quite frankly. Tough shit for them.

If everyone had a gun, nobody would have to worry about incarcerating the crooks.

[Korriken]

I've recently become an opponent of the death penalty. I find that execution is a wasteful punishment. you just killed a person who could be serving a greater cause. what kind of cause could this be? many.

Labor camps. we could always place them into labor camps and work them until the day they die. What kind of labor? *shrug* anything I suppose.

Gladiator fighting. This would kill them off AND make the government a pile of money. For the condemned that do not wish to spend the rest of their lives in labor camps, they can instead choose to become a gladiator. suit em up, give em a knife, put em in the ring with another person and only 1 can walk away. If they both die, then all the more entertaining.

Experimental research. Why experiment on monkeys when we have plenty of humans we're going to dispose of anyway?

Military training. Yeah, live fire baby, live targets too! Only problem is, we don't get enough people on death row to really do this one.

So anyway, forget the needle, forget the rope, there are better ways to deal with the bottom feeding scum. the murderers, the rapists, the drug dealers. drug dealers think they're tough? let's see how long they last in the ring with a REAL hardened killer.

[AapoJoki]

At 12/18/08 09:28 PM, Korriken wrote: Experimental research. Why experiment on monkeys when we have plenty of humans we're going to dispose of anyway?

Prisoners would make better subjects for psychological than physiological/medical experiments. There's so much we could learn from the criminal mind. We could find the things that trigger their kind of behavior, helping us prevent it on future generations.

[Musician]

At 12/18/08 09:35 PM, AapoJoki wrote: Prisoners would make better subjects for psychological than physiological/medical experiments. There's so much we could learn from the criminal mind. We could find the things that trigger their kind of behavior, helping us prevent it on future generations.

He's not interested in that kind of research because it's not sadistic enough.

[Tivadar44]

The death penalty is archaic and ineffective simply because life without the possibility of parole is proven to be a better deterrent. The average person is much more afraid of rotting away in captivity than dying. Incarceration, especially with the current prison systems (even in 1st world countries) in the poor state it's in, is nothing short of life long torture. Captive Honor, ain't no honor.

[heroicspatula]

At 12/18/08 08:42 PM, poxpower wrote: The main thing against the death penalty, for me, are:

- You don't want to get any innocents.
- You don't want to give the powers that be the chance to silence individuals permanently.

I agree with you. I want 100% DNA evidence, video/audio, and a Nun as a witness before someone gets the chair.

Death penalty is too easy to abuse and too dangerous. No one should have that power.

How do you mean?

And I don't give a shit about the criminal's lives quite frankly. Tough shit for them.

Depends on what they did, and if they are truly. guilty or not

[heroicspatula]

At 12/18/08 09:28 PM, Korriken wrote: I've recently become an opponent of the death penalty. I find that execution is a wasteful punishment. you just killed a person who could be serving a greater cause. what kind of cause could this be? many.

Labor camps. we could always place them into labor camps and work them until the day they die. What kind of labor? *shrug* anything I suppose.

Building the fence seperating us from mexico and Canada.

Gladiator fighting. This would kill them off AND make the government a pile of money. For the condemned that do not wish to spend the rest of their lives in labor camps, they can instead choose to become a gladiator. suit em up, give em a knife, put em in the ring with another person and only 1 can walk away. If they both die, then all the more entertaining.

Can there be lions? and fire pits as well? This should be PPV!

Experimental research. Why experiment on monkeys when we have plenty of humans we're going to dispose of anyway?

Portal technology

Military training. Yeah, live fire baby, live targets too! Only problem is, we don't get enough people on death row to really do this one.

I don't think for training, should be weapons testing. "Whats that new .50cal round gonna do? Lets find out!" They could also be used as cannon fodder.

So anyway, forget the needle, forget the rope, there are better ways to deal with the bottom feeding scum. the murderers, the rapists, the drug dealers. drug dealers think they're tough? let's see how long they last in the ring with a REAL hardened killer.

By hardened killer, do you mean O.J? lol

[Conspiracy3]

Personally I don't think prison is an effective form of punishment for long sentances. Psychologically it has been proven that unless a punishment is performed immediately it is useless as a means of rehabilitation. As a means of retribution there are more effective punishments that are short term such as corporal punishments (by that I mean inflicting pain, not necessarily causing injury), as a means of a deterant corporal punishments are well known as being more effective than long prison sentances, and just to keep people off the streets there can be slavery and death. Not only that, but keeping someone alive in prison is extremely expensive compared to other methods of dealing with criminals. If prisons are to be used the convicts should be used as a form of labor. They should have to work for the food and shelter the taxpayers pay for.

A prison sentance longer than a month or two is useless. For misdemeanors there should be a combination of short prison sentences, community service, fines, and mild corporal punishments. For worse crimes there could be a life of forced labor, being used as a gladiator (as someone here has suggested), harsher forms of torture, larger fines, and other sentences.

[heroicspatula]

At 12/18/08 09:59 PM, Tivadar44 wrote: The death penalty is archaic and ineffective simply because life without the possibility of parole is proven to be a better deterrent. The average person is much more afraid of rotting away in captivity than dying. Incarceration, especially with the current prison systems (even in 1st world countries) in the poor state it's in, is nothing short of life long torture. Captive Honor, ain't no honor.

Sorry, triple post.
the death penalty is not seen as bad as life because it is a great way to go. If i die from a shot, and all i feel is a pinprick, what is there to be worried about? Hell, i'd like to die like that.

However, if i know that I rape/murder a child, and the death penalty is death by anal fisting, I not going to Pedobear it up.

[poxpower]

At 12/18/08 10:04 PM, heroicspatula wrote:

Death penalty is too easy to abuse and too dangerous. No one should have that power.

How do you mean?

Well obviously in the USA it's pretty hard to abuse but it's been used pretty generously in the past in other places.
We should never put it into anyone's head that they have the right to execute people they arrest for ANY reason. Mainly because I have an irrational fear of being framed/arrested and then executed.

AS EVERYONE SHOULD
>:o
Obviously I don't really care about people who get executed but that's one step closer to executing me. Can't have that.

[LazyDrunk]

At 12/18/08 10:16 PM, poxpower wrote: Mainly because I have an irrational fear of being framed/arrested and then executed.

AS EVERYONE SHOULD
>:o

Martyrs don't.

[MrHero17]

I very much like the idea of labor camps, I mean why not, I'm sure there's plenty of people in all of our prisons who would rather be contributing to society then just being in jail.

[heroicspatula]

At 12/18/08 10:16 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 12/18/08 10:04 PM, heroicspatula wrote:

Death penalty is too easy to abuse and too dangerous. No one should have that power.

How do you mean?

Well obviously in the USA it's pretty hard to abuse but it's been used pretty generously in the past in other places.

See, thats why I was confused. I thought you were saying it was easy to abuse it in the U.S.A

We should never put it into anyone's head that they have the right to execute people they arrest for ANY reason. Mainly because I have an irrational fear of being framed/arrested and then executed.

AS EVERYONE SHOULD
>:o

Dude, I should be in Gitmo, the things i discuss on the phone. trust me, i know how you feel.
has that van outside been there for a while? i think so. Shit, they might be here to get me after all

Obviously I don't really care about people who get executed but that's one step closer to executing me. Can't have that.

What, afraid of needles?

[poxpower]

At 12/18/08 10:25 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

Martyrs don't.

They don't have a fear to be killed.
They have a fear of NOT being killed.

THEY'RE CRAZY

[RaharuHaruha]

Also... the reason it's not widely used is because it's more expensive. Prisoners are allowed to appeal as much as they want - at the state's expense. It's cheaper to feed them crap and house them, maybe you even get some work out of them.

[MultiCanimefan]

The Death Penalty should only be used when it is shwn that the criminal is incapable of feeling any genuine remorse or guilt and will firmly stand by his/her choice to not undergo treatment or be put to work. People whose last words are something like "Kiss my ass," as said by John Wayne Gayce, are beyond help and I see no problem in executing them. I do have a problem with people thinking that every rapist or murderer is bottom of the barrel scum and cannot be helped or put to work. I also have a problem with executing someone when they are partially not responsible for their crimes due to a brain deformity or brain damage, as was the case with Gary L. Ridgeway.

[RawOysterAddict]

At 12/18/08 06:27 PM, TheZach wrote:

If a person can't work towards the betterment of human civilization as a whole, then we should have no problem executing them. I think our society should be more pen to the idea executing of dangerous criminals.

I mean, if a person is detrimental to the advancement of our society and our technology, then why the hell should we keep them here? They are holding humanity back and are giving nothing in compensation. They are simply dead weight and the world would be better off without them.

Thoughts?

.....and a Hitler salute right back to you, sir. Tell me something, who will decide which citizens are "detrimental" and which citizens are "advancing"? Shouldn't we allow nature to determine who is unfit to survive through starvation and disease, rather than some goose stepping fascist like yourself? Don't get me wrong, If I were to go out and muder 20 or 30 people and get caught, I would fully expect to be executed, hell, I'd even embrace it! However, the government does not have the right to arbitrarily exterminate a minority of the population simply because they are not "contributing to the advancement of human civilization". I believe that sort of thing is refered to as genocide

Something else I find really ironic about this whole death penalty discussion.............

Can you tell me why phoney assholes like Bill O' Reilly and Nancy Grace, who probably have stacks of child porn in their bedrooms that reach the ceiling, are so quick to condemn older men who have sex with teenage girls? I mean, the general idea here is that the men are "predators" and the "innocent" little teenage whores have no idea what they are doing when they have sex with older men, right?

However, when these same little teen cunts turn around and murder their own kids in cold blood, the Bill O' Reilly's and the Nancy Grace's of the world want these teens tried and convicted as adults. I thought these little innocent children didn't know what they were doing?

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/19/08 12:42 PM, RawOysterAddict wrote: Can you tell me why phoney assholes like Bill O' Reilly and Nancy Grace, who probably have stacks of child porn in their bedrooms that reach the ceiling, are so quick to condemn older men who have sex with teenage girls? I mean, the general idea here is that the men are "predators" and the "innocent" little teenage whores have no idea what they are doing when they have sex with older men, right?

However, when these same little teen cunts turn around and murder their own kids in cold blood, the Bill O' Reilly's and the Nancy Grace's of the world want these teens tried and convicted as adults. I thought these little innocent children didn't know what they were doing?

Damn good point. Over here, the legal age to have sex is 15, and the age from which you can get a sentence in court is 15 (if you're below 15 and commit crimes, you're still in for a lot of trouble, though you can't be felled (fall, fell, felled? I dunno) by a court). If a 75-year old have sex with a 15-year old, it's sure seen as strange, but you can't get a sentence for it. Unless there is some other circumstances, like rape or abusing the kid's situation.

[Greycut40]

Personally, I believe that capital punishment is the most efficent method of dealing with dangerous criminals for the following reasons:
1. It eliminates any chance of the criminal re-offending when released.
2. It eliminates the cost of keeping the criminal incarcarated, often costing tens of thousands per year.
3. Keeping dangerous criminals imprisoned in sub-standard living conditions for years is unlikely to reform them into inoffensive and respectable members of society.
4.In the cases where innocent people were executed, the manner in which their cases were handled were often botched and poorly investigated, today however policing and investigation methods are greatly improved and these incidants are highly unlikely to occur.

[platypuspwn]

I agree totally with you. Also If we keep giving life sentences it will cause higher taxes to keep prisons under control. I think if you can't do good with your life then end your life.

[Korriken]

At 12/18/08 09:49 PM, Musician wrote:

He's not interested in that kind of research because it's not sadistic enough.

on the contrary, all medical research is welcome.

[TheWolfe]

This is very similar to how Hitler thought. Exterminate the weak. And, in a sense, it's a good idea...except then the definition of "weak" and "progressive" come into question. What makes a person deserve to die? Sure, you can point and say "he murdered someone, kill him!". But then there's who did they kill, and why, and was it self defense?
It's very complicated, and hard to make proper judgment. Although, I feel rapists deserve the DP, simply because they've ruined a person's life, will continue to ruin others, and there's so many of them. Fear Factor.

[Conspiracy3]

At 12/20/08 04:25 PM, TheWolfe wrote: This is very similar to how Hitler thought. Exterminate the weak. And, in a sense, it's a good idea...except then the definition of "weak" and "progressive" come into question. What makes a person deserve to die? Sure, you can point and say "he murdered someone, kill him!". But then there's who did they kill, and why, and was it self defense?

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea of eliminated the worthless people from the gene pool (however I would do so by castration and not murder) however, Hitler's criteria was rediculous.

It's very complicated, and hard to make proper judgment. Although, I feel rapists deserve the DP, simply because they've ruined a person's life, will continue to ruin others, and there's so many of them. Fear Factor.

Rape law is very difficult to abuse. There have been cases of women having sex with a man and then intentionally bruising and injuring herself after the man left to make people belive it is rape. When people see a crying woman covered in bruises and a DNA match to the semen inside of her the man stands no chance in court. I agree that rape is a horrible crime that should be prosecuted, however, it is easy to frame someone.

[SmilezRoyale]

At 12/18/08 08:42 PM, poxpower wrote: The main thing against the death penalty, for me, are:

- You don't want to get any innocents.

if making sure that innocent people aren't killed by government policy... Studies have shown that that more liberal use of the death penalty saves lives. [and by liberal i mean open, not leftist]

- You don't want to give the powers that be the chance to silence individuals permanently.

Death penalty is too easy to abuse and too dangerous. No one should have that power.

Why exactly? The government having the power to execute someone is not very much different than being able to imprison them for life... if you are talking about silencing dissidence. to consolidate political power.

And to be honest, the actual legal processes that the government changes are more important to the individual liberties of citizens than the ability that they can punish them with. I would rather live in a society where executions were used more freely by the government, but with strict controls on the legal system, than a system where the government could, say, only imprison someone for 20 years, but on the flip side, that government could suspend the writ of habeus corpus or something like that.

My opinion is, that it isn't the way that a government can punish people that gives them more so much as the power they have to 'investigate' crimes.

[Brick-top]

You're arguing the subjectivity of morality and what is considered evil and acceptable.

That's like arguing your favorite rainbow color.

[Shaggytheclown17]

At 12/20/08 08:16 PM, Brick-top wrote: You're arguing the subjectivity of morality and what is considered evil and acceptable.

That's like arguing your favorite rainbow color.

Shut up dick-crop.

I'd say the whole not killing people n keeping them in prison for God know how long, maybe theyre testing weapons n shit on em you ever think of that? Maybe theyre being used for something, that may be why us citizens have to pay for them to stay alive since the governments too much of a pussy to get rid of em.

But wtf am I saying, if you guys want them dead so badly then go right ahead n go to a prison n just start killing ppl if you want to, not my problem, you guys are just lil bitches arguing about shit you have no effing control over, so thats really what this is all about. Having something to bullshit over n make up for the fact that you guys can do jack shit about the shit you disagree with.