patriotic video games

[RussianGiant]

ive seen many video games showing off US spies and special forces in every video game store ive been in but ive never seen a British special forces game or any kind of game like that about a different country why is this so? I just think this is partly politically involved so thats why im putting it here.

[JeremieCompNerd]

Because games like that aren't patriotic, they're recruitment tactics. Hook young minds on the glory of winning all the time, teach them that getting shot makes them see red for a few seconds while they hide and then keep going, teach them how to aim and find cover and identify targets, make it real enough that they become good soldiers but fake enough that they don't realize the horror of what war really is. Then wait for them to come to you and ask for a gun and a passport. The reason no other country makes games about war is because only America is so callous that they can make war a game.

[poxpower]

At 12/17/08 07:06 PM, JeremieCompNerd wrote: The reason no other country makes games about war is because only America is so callous that they can make war a game.

Yeah that must be the only reason why Togo doesn't make war games for the PS3.

[JeremieCompNerd]

At 12/17/08 07:33 PM, poxpower wrote:

Yeah that must be the only reason why Togo doesn't make war games for the PS3.

I will assume you mean Togo the small country? I have difficulty reading sarcasm so if you're making a joke you may need to explain it a little better... Togo the country can't afford the tech to make games like that, but there are several countries that can afford to do so. By and large though, most of the war games I've heard of or encountered were American made games where you played as an American. Perhaps, though, this is because I'm currently in America. I don't have much knowlege of foreign games.

[poxpower]

At 12/17/08 07:53 PM, JeremieCompNerd wrote: By and large though, most of the war games I've heard of or encountered were American made games where you played as an American. Perhaps, though, this is because I'm currently in America. I don't have much knowlege of foreign games.

Yes of course

[Conspiracy3]

I live in America, and I think that if they sell a game from an American perspective it helps them sell games in American stores. Whether or not it helps them overseas I am not sure. However, many of the founders of popular war game series (such as Tom Clancy who founded Call of Duty, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, and many others) are American, and are thus likely to make games from an American perspective.

[Conspiracy3]

At 12/17/08 08:03 PM, poxpower wrote:

At 12/17/08 07:53 PM, JeremieCompNerd wrote: By and large though, most of the war games I've heard of or encountered were American made games where you played as an American. Perhaps, though, this is because I'm currently in America. I don't have much knowlege of foreign games.

Yes of course

I think I love you. You went with the classics. N64 is the greatest console ever made.

[Tancrisism]

At 12/17/08 09:34 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: I live in America, and I think that if they sell a game from an American perspective it helps them sell games in American stores. Whether or not it helps them overseas I am not sure. However, many of the founders of popular war game series (such as Tom Clancy who founded Call of Duty, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, and many others) are American, and are thus likely to make games from an American perspective.

The Medal of Honor games are ridiculously and almost sickeningly patriotic, especially the relatively recent game Airborne. I think of one mission where the plane gets shot or hit by flak or something and one of the guys gets hit, and everyone on the plane is like oh fuck are you okay? One guy says, look, sit back down, you're going home. Then the guy says (as patriotic music begins to play subtly in the background) "No. I'm coming to fight with you guys!"

But Call of Duty 4 wasn't too patriotic towards Americans; the American you played as died in a nuclear accident in the first 1/3 of the game. It was truly the British who saved the day; the Americans were fighting a pointless war against an undetermined enemy, while the British went behind their lines and actually took care of the root. It still wasn't too patriotic towards the British, though, as it portrayed them as somewhat cruel and unmerciful to captured enemies.

[ReiperX]

Battlefield 2 you got to play as many different special forces.

James Bond games, British spy.

But a majority of war games are sold in the US, so a majority of the War Games made will probably involve the country that is going to be having the most games sold in. It isn't that it is patriotic and stuff, it's that it is giving it's primary player base something to relate to.

[zephiran]

I would just like to point out that american patriotism is not the only form patriotism - look the word up in a philosophical dictionary.

But since all americans are SO patriotic I guess it is fair to generalise :P

... To get back on topic, I guess you find american patriotism in games if you look ONLY in american, patriotistic games. Sure, this happens to be almost every FPS on the market, but hey, if you just lurk around a little I bet you will find other patriotistic games too!

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/17/08 07:06 PM, JeremieCompNerd wrote: The reason no other country makes games about war is because only America is so callous that they can make war a game.

Wait, what?
Have you heard of a little game called Battlefield 1942? It gives 3.7 million hits on google, so you should probably have heard of it.
It was very much not american-made in any way.
And wait... Counterstrike was created by two people: One was american, the other viatnamese/canadian.
And Far Cry is german.

[JeremieCompNerd]

I should point out now that I never said all war games were American or patriotic I just stated that to the best of my some-what limited knowlege of the subject, America churns out more of them. I also find the number of American war games with military advisors on staff to be a disturbing coincidence. It could be that the companies really did pay the military to ensure that they got everything as accurate as possible, but I personaly find it more likely the military payed them to manufacture these interactive ads.

[shikasis]

i think there is a special forces game that i set with britains SAS specialists, i dont remeber the name, but my buddy has the game so ill ask him and post again tonight. i do know that it has one of the most annoying missions ever comprised by man, its in an airlane with terrorists, nuff said

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/18/08 08:44 AM, JeremieCompNerd wrote: I should point out now that I never said all war games were American

Yes you did. I quote:

The reason no other country makes games about war

[Tancrisism]

At 12/17/08 08:03 PM, poxpower wrote: Yes of course

True, all of Rare's games were British-made, as they are a British company. Perfect Dark included.

And what about games like Assassin's Creed? Just because it doesn't involve guns doesn't really mean much, as it is still quite violent. And French Canadian.

Or how about the Dynasty Warrior games? They aren't completely American in many ways.

Actually, some of the best games that take place in America are Japanese-made, like the Metal Gear series and Silent Hill series.

[Tancrisism]

At 12/18/08 01:13 PM, Tancrisism wrote: Actually, some of the best games that take place in America are Japanese-made, like the Metal Gear series and Silent Hill series.

Ah, also how about the Half Life series? I haven't played the episodes, but if they take place in the same area as Half Life 1-2 they are mostly in Central-Eastern Europe and are American-made. Gordon Freeman has an oddly Anglicized name, it's true, but I think it goes to show that you don't actually completely know what you are talking about.

[CBP]

At 12/17/08 06:56 PM, RussianGiant wrote: ive seen many video games showing off US spies and special forces in every video game store ive been in but ive never seen a British special forces game or any kind of game like that about a different country why is this so? I just think this is partly politically involved so thats why im putting it here.

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare has mostly British special forces. It did have the Marines, but it was mostly the -insert name I can't remember here-.

[heroicspatula]

At 12/17/08 09:34 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote:

such as Tom Clancy who founded Call of Duty

Sorry to nerd out, but Tom Clancy has nothing to do with Call of Duty.

[heroicspatula]

At 12/17/08 07:06 PM, JeremieCompNerd wrote: Because games like that aren't patriotic, they're recruitment tactics. Hook young minds on the glory of winning all the time,

everyone dies in Cod4, how is that glory?

teach them that getting shot makes them see red for a few seconds while they hide and then keep going, teach them how to aim and find cover and identify targets,

aiming with controller is not equal to aiming with a rifle

make it real enough that they become good soldiers but fake enough that they don't realize the horror of what war really is. Then wait for them to come to you and ask for a gun and a passport.

The fake war comes from the televised media and hollywood, not video games.

The reason no other country makes games about war is because only America is so callous that they can make war a game.

really? let me introduce you to
Eidos, DICE and Ubisoft.
Really, do you even know what you say?

[RussianGiant]

I also notice how most games make the terrorists/civilians talk Russian or some middle east language.
i think they do that because, well they hate Russians, Middle east i get it but Russian i dont get it how can Russian soldiers be the guys fighting there and i mean games dont make a veriety of languages they only make a few different kinds. Middle east and Russian so what do you think?

(i have a bad feeling about this topic).....

[LazyDrunk]

At 12/18/08 08:10 PM, RussianGiant wrote: I also notice how most games make the terrorists/civilians talk Russian or some middle east language.

I don't want to come off as angry as some of the other posters, but I will say that since the advent of television (and it's video entertainment system spawn), acts of war and warfare against English-speaking countries have traditionally stemmed from conflicts with Eastern Europe, South Asian and especially Russian protectorates. The Cold War wasn't fought on either Soviet or American turf, yet proxy battles and economic warfare spread like the next new thing.

It's more a matter of history than anything else.... I think.

i think they do that because, well they hate Russians, Middle east i get it but Russian i dont get it how can Russian soldiers be the guys fighting there and i mean games dont make a veriety of languages they only make a few different kinds. Middle east and Russian so what do you think?

I think you may be reading too deep, personally. There is no hate that I see.

Could you be more specific, or is language the only context (besides the obvous bloodshed/killing represented in games)?

(i have a bad feeling about this topic).....

I think this thread is pretty decent myself... not because of the replies, but the topic itself.

[poxpower]

And let's not forget the unrealistic expectations that were created for kids in regards to plumbing.

[LazyDrunk]

At 12/18/08 09:23 PM, poxpower wrote: And let's not forget the unrealistic expectations that were created for kids in regards to plumbing.

Ever strike you that Mario wore "red" and ran around eating shrooms gaining "star" invincibility while tearing down a peace flag at the end of every level to erect a fucking red star one?

There are parallels, if only a little less obvious than most games on the NES.

[heroicspatula]

At 12/18/08 09:23 PM, poxpower wrote: And let's not forget the unrealistic expectations that were created for kids in regards to plumbing.

Lol, just think, somewhere, some poor dude is screaming into a pillowcase

"ARRRRGH! WHY DID I CHOSE THIS AS MY PROFESSION? I CAN'T SHOOT FIREBALLS, AND IT IS LOOKED DOWN ON WHEN I JUMP ON TURTLES!!!!!
WHERE IS MY PRINCESS????"

[n64kid]

At 12/18/08 09:23 PM, poxpower wrote: And let's not forget the unrealistic expectations that were created for kids in regards to plumbing.

You fool, it's a soviet recruitment deploy.

[Tancrisism]

You know, let me revert back to the Goldeneye cover for a minute. Is it just me, or does Pierce Brosnan have an oddly wide-stretched mouth? I have always wondered about this.

[RussianGiant]

At 12/18/08 09:13 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 12/18/08 08:10 PM, RussianGiant wrote: I also notice how most games make the terrorists/civilians talk Russian or some middle east language.

I don't want to come off as angry as some of the other posters, but I will say that since the advent of television (and it's video entertainment system spawn), acts of war and warfare against English-speaking countries have traditionally stemmed from conflicts with Eastern Europe, South Asian and especially Russian protectorates. The Cold War wasn't fought on either Soviet or American turf, yet proxy battles and economic warfare spread like the next new thing.

Well this is kinda like the cold war #2. I mean ive seen like 100 putin turned into Hitler videos on youtube but the media starts getting all riled up just because 1 shalsvlitsky turned into Hitler video.
I still kinda believe my cause Ive seen how stupid many people can be (especially in youtube) that post all kinds of videos there about how awesome America is and how Russia sucks.

It's more a matter of history than anything else.... I think.

I agree with you now that you told me...

I think you may be reading too deep, personally. There is no hate that I see.

Could you be more specific, or is language the only context (besides the obvous bloodshed/killing represented in games)?

Well my friends say they've played games where the terrorist talks Iranian or Iraqi or something but so far Ive only seen games where they speak Russian especially the Socom series.

[LazyDrunk]

At 12/19/08 08:44 AM, RussianGiant wrote:

At 12/18/08 09:13 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

Well this is kinda like the cold war #2. I mean ive seen like 100 putin turned into Hitler videos on youtube but the media starts getting all riled up just because 1 shalsvlitsky turned into Hitler video.

I don't use youtube, but I'm sure there exists a good number of people propheteering* how Putin has installed himself (permanently?) into modern Russian politiks. Can you see how that can parallel the path of Hitler in the 30's? I could see some people making that stretch... just look at the enthusiasm 9/11 conspiracy theorists tout on the web.

I still kinda believe my cause Ive seen how stupid many people can be (especially in youtube) that post all kinds of videos there about how awesome America is and how Russia sucks.

If the people who post youtube videos about stupid nationalism are idiots, what does that make the people who choose to watch them? Informed, or just as insignificant and petty? You gotta rise above the shitpiles if you don't want any on your shoes, but you can't get rid of the smell regardless.

It's more a matter of history than anything else.... I think.

I agree with you now that you told me...

It would seem kinda ackward having a war game where some sort of troops invade Australia or Greenland, but I think the video game industry should also exercise their artistic freedom and come up with something more original than resurrected wars of the past 50 years. Part of what makes vids awesome are the limitless ideas for plots, characters and missions... but even the video game industry is based on the idea that they should give the people what they want.

The playability of the warfare games, I think, is what has made the latest wave of Western army-type games as big a hit as what they are.. along with actual military applications incorperated into some current armed forces job positions. The set-up of some war games stresses the power and necessity to command a team of trained men on a mission. No substitute for running through the jungle, but better than merely shooting bananas or breaking blocks for coin.

There is a market for almost every type of game. Now, the markets have been encouraged by the successes of earlier war-type games. Where there's money to be made, MANY people will try their hand at putting forth a product that has already enjoyed some success.

The best games sell the most while the shitty games just trying to push one aspect of it's product (OUR troops are the BEST) while ignoring the dozens of other attributes that make games great will fail and suck and be laughed at for sucking.

I think you may be reading too deep, personally. There is no hate that I see.

Could you be more specific, or is language the only context (besides the obvous bloodshed/killing represented in games)?

Well my friends say they've played games where the terrorist talks Iranian or Iraqi or something but so far Ive only seen games where they speak Russian especially the Socom series.

I think it's neat when games put foreign languages in their games, even if only as targets (though I'm sure the goal isn't to kill every non-english speaker, just the hostiles). It gives me a chance to actually hear the accents instead of merely reading the glyphs and ciphers. I speak fairly fluent German, so it's also kinda neat to be able to understand a bilingual video game aurally as well as visually (by their garb and habitat).

Until someone decides that a game where overthrowing the American government is worth creating, I don't see there being a ready market for such a game. However, companies like Rockstar who relish in creating edgy video games, like the GTA series, would probably jump at a designer's plan to manufacture such a game.

I think such a game would probably sell a shit-ton copies.. but I wouldn't accredit it so much to the plot as to the actual programming and design.

Know what I mean? SOCOM isn't awesome because you get to virtually shoot the people of the world, but because the game has been produced in such a way that killing the people of the world seems entertaining.

I hope the biggest problems facing aren't this, but it would be nice if it were.

[Conspiracy3]

At 12/18/08 12:30 AM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 12/17/08 09:34 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: I live in America, and I think that if they sell a game from an American perspective it helps them sell games in American stores. Whether or not it helps them overseas I am not sure. However, many of the founders of popular war game series (such as Tom Clancy who founded Call of Duty, Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon, and many others) are American, and are thus likely to make games from an American perspective.

The Medal of Honor games are ridiculously and almost sickeningly patriotic, especially the relatively recent game Airborne. I think of one mission where the plane gets shot or hit by flak or something and one of the guys gets hit, and everyone on the plane is like oh fuck are you okay? One guy says, look, sit back down, you're going home. Then the guy says (as patriotic music begins to play subtly in the background) "No. I'm coming to fight with you guys!"

Medal of Honor is one of the Tom Clancy games. Ergo American. Americans tend to be patriotic (by one survey they are the second most patriotic nation in the world, next to Venezuela, but patriotism is difficult to measure so I question that survey's validity)

But Call of Duty 4 wasn't too patriotic towards Americans; the American you played as died in a nuclear accident in the first 1/3 of the game. It was truly the British who saved the day; the Americans were fighting a pointless war against an undetermined enemy, while the British went behind their lines and actually took care of the root. It still wasn't too patriotic towards the British, though, as it portrayed them as somewhat cruel and unmerciful to captured enemies.

Regardless, it was still biased for the allied powers.

At 12/18/08 02:55 PM, heroicspatula wrote:

At 12/17/08 09:34 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote:

such as Tom Clancy who founded Call of Duty

Sorry to nerd out, but Tom Clancy has nothing to do with Call of Duty.

Sorry about that not really thinking today. However, Call of Duty definately fits Tom Clancy's genre. And it is made by Activision, which is an American company.

At 12/18/08 08:10 PM, RussianGiant wrote: I also notice how most games make the terrorists/civilians talk Russian or some middle east language.
i think they do that because, well they hate Russians, Middle east i get it but Russian i dont get it how can Russian soldiers be the guys fighting there and i mean games dont make a veriety of languages they only make a few different kinds. Middle east and Russian so what do you think?

(i have a bad feeling about this topic).....

Your profile says that you are thirteen ergo born after the end of the cold war.

Most game designers are old enough to remember the cold war. The time when the US was trying to persecute the USSR for their economic philosophy and vice versa. The time when two powers, each trying to destroy eachother in an attempt to gain more power, turned small conflicts around the world into big conflicts just to suit their political agenda. The time when Joe the McCarthy went completely insane and said everyone in Hollywood was a communist. The time when people said communism was the epitome of all evil without even knowing what communism was (actually the majority of the US population still dislikes communism and thinks that communism and socialism are the same thing)

At 12/19/08 08:44 AM, RussianGiant wrote:

At 12/18/08 09:13 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 12/18/08 08:10 PM, RussianGiant wrote: I also notice how most games make the terrorists/civilians talk Russian or some middle east language.

I don't want to come off as angry as some of the other posters, but I will say that since the advent of television (and it's video entertainment system spawn), acts of war and warfare against English-speaking countries have traditionally stemmed from conflicts with Eastern Europe, South Asian and especially Russian protectorates. The Cold War wasn't fought on either Soviet or American turf, yet proxy battles and economic warfare spread like the next new thing.

Well this is kinda like the cold war #2. I mean ive seen like 100 putin turned into Hitler videos on youtube but the media starts getting all riled up just because 1 shalsvlitsky turned into Hitler video.

How are Putin and Hitler anything at all alike?

I still kinda believe my cause Ive seen how stupid many people can be (especially in youtube) that post all kinds of videos there about how awesome America is and how Russia sucks.

The average person is an idiot. The exact reason why democracy doesn't work.

It's more a matter of history than anything else.... I think.

I agree with you now that you told me...

I think you may be reading too deep, personally. There is no hate that I see.

Could you be more specific, or is language the only context (besides the obvous bloodshed/killing represented in games)?

Well my friends say they've played games where the terrorist talks Iranian or Iraqi or something but so far Ive only seen games where they speak Russian especially the Socom series.

Iranian isn't a language. Iraqi isn't a language. In Iran they usually speak Farci or Arabic. In Iraq they usually speak Arabic.

[Conspiracy3]

At 12/19/08 04:36 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

At 12/19/08 08:44 AM, RussianGiant wrote:

At 12/18/08 09:13 PM, LazyDrunk wrote:

It's more a matter of history than anything else.... I think.

I agree with you now that you told me...

The playability of the warfare games, I think, is what has made the latest wave of Western army-type games as big a hit as what they are.. along with actual military applications incorperated into some current armed forces job positions. The set-up of some war games stresses the power and necessity to command a team of trained men on a mission. No substitute for running through the jungle, but better than merely shooting bananas or breaking blocks for coin.

In military training they do use video game like simulations. They don't call them games because they want soldiers to take them seriously, but computer training simulations are in essence video games.