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At 12/14/08 11:07 PM, Al6200 wrote:

At 12/14/08 10:26 PM, marchohare wrote:

At 12/14/08 10:03 PM, Shylian wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7 782422.stm

It's stories like this that make me laugh at the ignorant fools who, in another thread in this forum, insisted that the President of the United States is too well-protected to assassinate.

Huh? You have to go through a whole slew of checkpoints to get into any sort of proximity with the president, and they would've caught anyone with any sort of real weapons. Of course they wouldn't confiscate shoes, because that would be completely ridiculous.

The president is not always giving speeches inside a room...but his job often requires him to speechify outdoors. This is what March could be referring to...a lone nut with a deer rifle (the basis for the vast majority of sniper rifles) if determined (and smart enough) could take-out the president.

At 12/15/08 04:24 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: ...that joke of a journalist would've been executed five minutes later under Saddam.

Only when Saddam was still our friend... maybe... which he was when I was your age.

In fact, in 1983 the Reagan administration even sent a special envoy to Baghdad to show our support for Saddam gassing his own people. That special envoy, incidentally, was Donald Rumsfeld.

If any of y'all have memories as long as mine, you'll be grabbing your heads and screaming by the time you're 50. It's frustrating, watching as history gets rewritten. It's even more frustrating when you realize that the public not only has a short memory, it exists in a dream world of almost perfect amnesia.

At 12/15/08 04:32 PM, TheMason wrote: The president is not always giving speeches inside a room...but his job often requires him to speechify outdoors. This is what March could be referring to...

I was. It only takes one mistake, and less than a split-second.

Does anyone really think our methods are any better now than they were when Reagan was shot in 1981?

They're not, and until Presidents are never permitted to go outside without being sealed up in bulletproof Lexan containers, they can't be.

What i'm surprised at is that the secret service didn't shoot the guy who threw the shoe. For all they knew he could have hidden a block of C4 in the shoe or something. However, if they did shoot it would create a whole diplomatic nightmare.

Bush deserved the shoe thrown at him. His entire speech was basically a giant insult to the crowd.

At 12/15/08 04:59 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: What i'm surprised at is that the secret service didn't shoot the guy who threw the shoe. For all they knew he could have hidden a block of C4 in the shoe or something.

In Iraq culture, the shoe might as well have been C4 or a bullet.

At 12/14/08 10:26 PM, marchohare wrote:

At 12/14/08 10:03 PM, Shylian wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7 782422.stm

It's stories like this that make me laugh at the ignorant fools who, in another thread in this forum, insisted that the President of the United States is too well-protected to assassinate.

Bullets travel much faster than thrown shoes--beyond the speed of sound, there isn't enough warning to duck. You'll never hear the one that gets you.

Shoes are just funny. What they symbolize in this instance is not.

Getting the shoe past the secret service into a press conference is easy.

Getting a loaded gun past the secret service into a press conference is much harder.

At 12/15/08 05:03 PM, MultiCanimefan wrote:

At 12/15/08 04:59 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: What i'm surprised at is that the secret service didn't shoot the guy who threw the shoe. For all they knew he could have hidden a block of C4 in the shoe or something.

In Iraq culture, the shoe might as well have been C4 or a bullet.

It's still just an insult and not an attack. It's like flicking him off or mooning him, maybe burning an effigy of him. I seriously want to compliment that reporter. He kicks fucking ass.

At 12/15/08 05:05 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: Getting a loaded gun past the secret service into a press conference is much harder.

Obviously, however, not hard enough. A few years ago, PBS ran a series on "spy tech," and some of the inventions they demonstrated would blow the minds of most of the folks here on Newgrounds. I think my favorite (not that it would work in the scenario we're talking about) was an umbrella that injected a tiny metal ball coated with ricin. The assassin only had to pretend to stumble and touch his umbrella tip to the back of his victim's calf. The victim didn't even know he'd been injected. Because ricin takes awhile to kill, the assassin was long gone before the victim exhibited the first symptoms of being poisoned, and ricin has no antidote. You get stuck, you're dead, it's as simple as that.

Clever methods of killing are being invented all the time, and in a culture where many people have been known to kill by blowing themselves up, the sky is no limit.

Think it's inconceivable that a deadly little one-shot pistol could be devised that's virtually impossible to detect? Think the Secret Service could find a non-metallic bomb surgically implanted in some guy's gut? Think again.

At 12/15/08 05:25 PM, marchohare wrote:

At 12/15/08 05:05 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: Getting a loaded gun past the secret service into a press conference is much harder.

Obviously, however, not hard enough. A few years ago, PBS ran a series on "spy tech," and some of the inventions they demonstrated would blow the minds of most of the folks here on Newgrounds. I think my favorite (not that it would work in the scenario we're talking about) was an umbrella that injected a tiny metal ball coated with ricin. The assassin only had to pretend to stumble and touch his umbrella tip to the back of his victim's calf. The victim didn't even know he'd been injected. Because ricin takes awhile to kill, the assassin was long gone before the victim exhibited the first symptoms of being poisoned, and ricin has no antidote. You get stuck, you're dead, it's as simple as that.

The same could be done with the tip of a shoe. All you have to do is accidentally step too far while walking behind them, and hit the tip of your shoe just above their shoe. Another way is to use food. Don't put all the poison in one thing though, feed them "a" in potatoes and "b" in steak and when the two interact it becomes a toxin. Many cool ways to kill someone.

He should have thrown a condom filled with purple paint at him, like they did with Blair at the House of Commons.

At 12/15/08 04:35 PM, marchohare wrote:

At 12/15/08 04:24 PM, LazyDrunk wrote: ...that joke of a journalist would've been executed five minutes later under Saddam.

Only when Saddam was still our friend... maybe... which he was when I was your age.

Well, it has been and still is a capital crime to even suggest throwing shoes at leaders. But hey, it's just Bush, it's just shoes, and it just goes to show that progress has casualities.

The kook who threw the shoes has been a staunch opponent of continued American presence in Iraq (and the middle east, as popular sentiment goes), and has gone so far as to say he "has grown to hate American troops."

I think it's great press for the war. Throwing shoes at the president and having him laugh it off and dismiss you is fucking priceless in my eyes.

In fact, in 1983 the Reagan administration even sent a special envoy to Baghdad to show our support for Saddam gassing his own people. That special envoy, incidentally, was Donald Rumsfeld.

Yeah, Saddam was our Negro In Da Hood for awhile. Then interests clashed, Kuwait squealed, and we stepped in to "mitigate" for the appropriate price. Or something like that.. my history with Iraq gets sketchy after considering the Iran Contra and CIA efforts at undermining everything they touch.

If any of y'all have memories as long as mine, you'll be grabbing your heads and screaming by the time you're 50. It's frustrating, watching as history gets rewritten. It's even more frustrating when you realize that the public not only has a short memory, it exists in a dream world of almost perfect amnesia.

Money talks, always has, always will.

I've already stocked up on bullets.

At 12/14/08 10:26 PM, marchohare wrote: Shoes are just funny. What they symbolize in this instance is not.

It doesn't matter what the hidden meaning is; it's just some guy throwing a shoe at some other guy.
Besides, I think that the Iraqi people have the right to express their frustration at America. This proves that Iraq has become a democracy... This shoe been thrown is at him is perhaps George Bush's biggest accomplishment - it proves that he has in fact given this nation freedom of speech - people are no longer scared to express their views.

i think most of america has wanted to do that to him. lol.

I'm not going to quote the many posts on it, but this is more or less a response to how Bush misunderstood the gesture of feet.

It's worse than the middile finger... Muslim insults in general are so strong they evoke the kind of hatred associated only with the N-word, and possibly 'chink'.

I like to consult Guru Nanak here:

Mecca Hotel Owner: "Sir, please do not sleep with your feet pointed at the holy shrine!"
Nanak: "Alright, point me where god is not."

At 12/15/08 10:28 PM, Alphabit wrote:

:This shoe been thrown is at him is perhaps George Bush's biggest accomplishment - it proves that he has in fact given this nation freedom of speech - people are no longer scared to express their views.

Reposted for great justice. Ironically, in trying to express frustration with Bush, the man only served to prove that the mission Bush espouses has largely been a success.

At 12/15/08 11:03 PM, RWT wrote: Mecca Hotel Owner: "Sir, please do not sleep with your feet pointed at the holy shrine!"
Nanak: "Alright, point me where god is not."

I love that quote.

And the guy lived 500 years ago: proof that we haven't come very far in terms of profound spiritual development over the last half-millennium.

In fact, maybe we're backsliding. I'm trying to think of a contemporary quote, from someone now living, that impresses me as much--not only in its wisdom, but in its gentleness. I'm not coming up with any.

At 12/15/08 11:03 PM, RWT wrote: I like to consult Guru Nanak here:

Mecca Hotel Owner: "Sir, please do not sleep with your feet pointed at the holy shrine!"
Nanak: "Alright, point me where god is not."

Then if he is truly devout he must cut off his feet.

At 12/15/08 11:35 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote:

At 12/15/08 11:03 PM, RWT wrote: I like to consult Guru Nanak here:

Mecca Hotel Owner: "Sir, please do not sleep with your feet pointed at the holy shrine!"
Nanak: "Alright, point me where god is not."

Then if he is truly devout he must cut off his feet.

Nanak went on to found Sihkism. Poetic justice. Oh, and another of his quotes:

After being offered cannabis candy (guess) by Tamerlane for composing a great poem, Nanak's response was "No thank you, Sahhir, I'm high on life." He was truely inspired...

At 12/15/08 10:28 PM, Alphabit wrote: This proves that Iraq has become a democracy... This shoe been thrown is at him is perhaps George Bush's biggest accomplishment - it proves that he has in fact given this nation freedom of speech - people are no longer scared to express their views.

Too bad the "Arab world" is so oblivious to it, though. This guy has become a hero in the Middle East. It's stupefying to read the supporting comments from people interviewed in Syria, Egypt, parts of Iraq. I've always believed that there are an equivalent number of ignorant morons everywhere you go, regardless of the country, but this stuff makes me wonder...

It was a serious insult, whether or not you believe the insult was rightly deserved is up to the individuals.

My main issue with this is that he had enough time to throw the second shoe before the secret service got to him on the ground. I do foresee a lot of the secret service going through some additional training.

At 12/16/08 05:51 AM, ReiperX wrote: My main issue with this is that he had enough time to throw the second shoe before the secret service got to him on the ground. I do foresee a lot of the secret service going through some additional training.

I had thought so, too, for awhile. The lead agent was about 8-12 feet away, and made his way to the president after about two and a half seconds.. the total time it took the guy to toss his shoes.

Was the president in any real threat? Maybe. More training couldn't hurt, but I don't think it would've changed their response.

At 12/16/08 05:51 AM, ReiperX wrote: My main issue with this is that he had enough time to throw the second shoe before the secret service got to him on the ground. I do foresee a lot of the secret service going through some additional training.

I had thought so, too, for awhile. The lead agent was about 8-12 feet away, and made his way to the president after about two and a half seconds.. the total time it took the guy to toss his shoes.

Was the president in any real threat? Maybe. More training couldn't hurt, but I don't think it would've changed their response.

At 12/15/08 05:25 PM, marchohare wrote:

At 12/15/08 05:05 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: Getting a loaded gun past the secret service into a press conference is much harder.

... "spy tech," .. umbrella that injected a tiny metal ball coated with ricin. ... You get stuck, you're dead, it's as simple as that.

Clever methods of killing are being invented all the time, and in a culture where many people have been known to kill by blowing themselves up, the sky is no limit.

In 2000 a guy name Tom Mangold wrote a book Plague Wars. It was assigned as a text book in a Master's course I was taking (the prof was an analyst for the DIA). It was pretty good and I think you'd like it Hare-man. Another good book is Biohazard by Ken Alibek. The first book describes the biowarfare programs of several countries. The Soviet Block and S. Africa have some of the most interesting (in a sick sort of way) spy tech.

But it is funny how people aren't getting it.

* A Romanian derivative of the USSR's Dragunov sniper rifle, the PSL sells for $700-800.

* The Premeir US sniper rifles, the USMC's M40A1 and M40A3 are essentially modified Remington 700 hunting rifles. While many may think that these "modifications" make the gun more "military" or "police"...this does NOT make them more lethal! Modifications include: upgraded scope, fiberglass stock (wood warps in different environments) and trigger pull. There is nothing special about these modifications and are available to any civilian. The military does use special "military/police-only" sniper ammo; however any hand loader (a person who makes their own ammo) has the skills to make equivalent ammo. MSRP for a Remington 700 (w/o scope): $620. A scope can be bought for as little as $50 to as much as a $1,000.

One day I was telling a MSgt (when I was a new A1C in the USAF) that I did not like putting my rank on my helmet in huge letters...because it gives a sniper too much intel. His response: do you know how much a sniper set-up costs? This is indicative of how ignorant people are of sniper rifles. Most laypersons think of the Barrett .50 cal that costs several thousand dollars and shoots very expensive ammo (you see these in movies and the sniper rifle in Halo reminds me of them). This is not the case. Traditional deer hunting rifles make the best sniper rifles. And unless the secret service has checkpoints and total control of every tree and window within a mile...

At 12/14/08 10:18 PM, KeithHybrid wrote: XD

Does anyone get the cultural implication this goes with?

Yes, it is the Muslim equivalent of taking a dump on someone. Also, on a scale of one to ten, how much did Bush deserve this? I vote ten.

At 12/16/08 04:29 PM, CBP wrote:

At 12/14/08 10:18 PM, KeithHybrid wrote: XD

Does anyone get the cultural implication this goes with?

Yes, it is the Muslim equivalent of taking a dump on someone. Also, on a scale of one to ten, how much did Bush deserve this? I vote ten.

10

If only I could vote higher. Actually I will vote higher. I vote 11 because I am a maverick.