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At 12/7/08 02:00 PM, FernandoDrechsler wrote:

lots of stuff.

For a first post, you sure had a mouthful to say. I applaud you :D

At 12/7/08 02:05 PM, war-spawn wrote:

At 12/7/08 02:00 PM, FernandoDrechsler wrote:

lots of stuff.

For a first post, you sure had a mouthful to say. I applaud you :D

It just basic text. Here, where I live in Brazil, Music must be the last of things on the list of what music should be. Its more of a money receptacle, where only the ones that make people earn are allowed. I actually, if I want to play with a decent regularity, have to make some sucess outside (have a supported track, for instance) before being able to have your name called around these parts.

Party promoters have no idea of line-ups, I see DJs that don't know how to mix playing more then me, because they charge less. I know Mixing isn't hard (Learned for 5 years now, I really don't practise and I still am able to pullout quite good DJ sets when live, although I can't do many fancy things, so I won't fuck up the set, cause I hate to do the slightest of errors), but most people, ignorants, think that all you have to do is press start and let the party go.

It doesnt work that way. You have to know when to add some fuel, or throw some water to the fire accordingly. Most people are terrified to stand up on a DJ Booth and play for 2~3 hours non-stop. I like this stuff, but many things go wrong when is my turn to go up is unreal. But when everything is in order, its beatiful the sets that are made.

I might not have the best DJing skills, due to lack of practise and work, but I guarrantee I won't fuck things up when I'm playing. I have nothing against guitar players how make who go up a stage, and keep playing 5~6 notes during 4 minutes, which are many, and famous, why should they bother talking shit about DJs?

At 12/4/08 05:30 PM, Ambimetric wrote: As well as technical knowledge. More technical knowledge than your average joe guitar player guy.

This really hurt... Deep.

I quit reading the thread after I saw that...

Good stuff FernandoDrechlser.

At 12/7/08 02:17 PM, FernandoDrechsler wrote: cause I hate to do the slightest of errors

I do too! :(, I don't know why I feel that way, but I'll trash a mix if one thing goes wrong!

^^^^That's hardly surprising though. The whole aesthetic of mixing is based on complete smoothness.

I suffer from the same thing though D: Perfectionism sucks

I wouldn't say complete smoothness cause thats impossible (Different tonalities of songs, subgenres, different percussion). Id say the smoothest, the better. If you miss, we call it here "sambar", and missing the cue point does fuck up a night for me, cause I really like to feel that I did decently, and I know I will question myself of the "why" on missing that cue point.

I wish I had the means to record my live sets, I always like to hear what I mix in order to improve. Self criticism and some degree of perfection are essential, for DJs and Musicians in general...

At 12/7/08 03:06 PM, FernandoDrechsler wrote: I wish I had the means to record my live sets, I always like to hear what I mix in order to improve. Self criticism and some degree of perfection are essential, for DJs and Musicians in general...

All it really takes is a split cord from your mixer, send one to the mic port on your computer and record with audacity :>

The problem is having a PC at hands to do the Job xD

and I mean, when Im really playing, where's the real deal.

Well yeah, I suppose if you're talking about catching your actual gig sets. Still, if you find a laptop to borrow or something, it could definitely work

Yeah, well, I did that...once...

Recorded 6 hours of Set from a party I went, ended up freezing the PC during the conversion progress with Audicity =´[

At 12/7/08 01:50 PM, Nav wrote:

Perfect example would be Bassnectar.

Ohhhh the irony of this post! XD

WHA??? you ever seen bassnectar live?
Cmon nav .. it is a matter of taste after all.
Im sorry if i offended you being jewish hehehehhe

Look, some DJ's are like that but some like Ravine and Cotts (and me trying to stay modest here.) Do the work it requires everything from technical knowledge to having a good musical. Have you ever gone to a club or illegal rave where the DJ does not look stressed out and its trying to juggle keeping the crowd entertained to actually scratch and hold it all together. No you probably have not because if you have your looking at a DJ who has been doing for many year's (like the 80's or something?) and have you ever Tried scratching it takes a lot of work. so my friend that is my counter argument.

At 12/7/08 02:23 PM, Sialys wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:30 PM, Ambimetric wrote: As well as technical knowledge. More technical knowledge than your average joe guitar player guy.

This really hurt... Deep.

I quit reading the thread after I saw that...

Well actually it depends if your some 13 year old kid who thought it would raise your popularity to learn how to play guitar (probably what Sialys meant), OR if your a real musician who goes and preforms(what you mean?). it depends

At 12/8/08 12:29 AM, Grey-shado wrote: Look, some DJ's are like that but some like Ravine and Cotts

Lol. He's nowhere NEAR as oldskool as some of the other happy hardcore DJs. Darren Styles and Hixxy are really the oldest ones... Styles being the oldest, I think. I know he was with Force & The Evolution on Kniteforce back in the very early 90s... Hixxy was starting in '94 or '95 with Toytown... Cotts seems to just be another nu skool hardcore DJ, with some CDJs, posting his videos on Youtube :S

At 12/4/08 06:48 PM, Envy wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:37 PM, the-aenigma wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:30 PM, Ambimetric wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:29 PM, Hades0013 wrote: Seconded. Being a good DJ really requires a lot of effort and music knowledge.

As well as technical knowledge. More technical knowledge than your average joe guitar player guy.

Horseshit. Ever try playing a guitar?

Ever tried scratching vinyl?

Can't be harder than this.

At 12/7/08 02:17 PM, FernandoDrechsler wrote: It doesnt work that way. You have to know when to add some fuel, or throw some water to the fire accordingly. Most people are terrified to stand up on a DJ Booth and play for 2~3 hours non-stop. I like this stuff, but many things go wrong when is my turn to go up is unreal. But when everything is in order, its beatiful the sets that are made.

I know what you mean with the things going wrong.. I was at a friend's party DJing a week or so back.. (he had a Numark iDJ2, so I was using that) and all of a sudden.. it refused to do the most basic things. Tempo-reading.. yeah.. I'd know a song was about 128.. and it's display a random number like.. 170.. and I'd just end up doing it all by ear.. so that wasn't too bad. But then.. all of a sudden my USB stick died on me in the middle of a transition and refused to load any songs. One of the other DJs had a stick in there still as well.. so I switched over to that and found something at the last second.. but still.. it can be ridiculous.

At 12/8/08 05:23 PM, EchozAurora wrote:

At 12/7/08 02:17 PM, FernandoDrechsler wrote: It doesnt work that way. You have to know when to add some fuel, or throw some water to the fire accordingly. Most people are terrified to stand up on a DJ Booth and play for 2~3 hours non-stop. I like this stuff, but many things go wrong when is my turn to go up is unreal. But when everything is in order, its beatiful the sets that are made.

I know what you mean with the things going wrong.. I was at a friend's party DJing a week or so back.. (he had a Numark iDJ2, so I was using that) and all of a sudden.. it refused to do the most basic things. Tempo-reading.. yeah.. I'd know a song was about 128.. and it's display a random number like.. 170.. and I'd just end up doing it all by ear.. so that wasn't too bad. But then.. all of a sudden my USB stick died on me in the middle of a transition and refused to load any songs. One of the other DJs had a stick in there still as well.. so I switched over to that and found something at the last second.. but still.. it can be ridiculous.

I had too many problems on my 5 years. Faulty Equipement (A CDJ with a problematic CUE Button, I actually had to smack it in order to work), bad EQing (too much bass, most of the time, crystal clean sound is hard to find), delays (DJs arriving 40 min AFTER they should), Club owners killing the party before my turn, Parties closing before I arrive.

Its a multitude of failures. I actually pulled of 1 party myself in a small club. I fucked up with the promotion of the party (I had to do all by myself, and had never made a party before, Im a DJ, not a promoter), and even with only almost 100 person (I was expecting 300~400 if I had promoted right), its was a hell of a nice party to play (most people dont listen to what I play which is trance, so they failed to understand it, expecting some hard hitting shit and all).

I've had a lot of problems on the parties I played and Im still expecting to play in a decently filled party with people who actually enjoy what I play, actually understands that e-music is way much more then just Electro and psytrance (2 major subgenres in Brazil)

At 12/8/08 03:29 PM, revexe wrote:

At 12/4/08 06:48 PM, Envy wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:37 PM, the-aenigma wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:30 PM, Ambimetric wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:29 PM, Hades0013 wrote: Seconded. Being a good DJ really requires a lot of effort and music knowledge.

As well as technical knowledge. More technical knowledge than your average joe guitar player guy.

Horseshit. Ever try playing a guitar?

Ever tried scratching vinyl?

Can't be harder than this.

Scratching can be like playing hammer ons, pull offs, tapping and using the whammy bar. Scratching albums is the closest analogy in music IMO to the complexity of guitar playing because it involves using both hands on the decks, x-fader, EQ, etc. I wouldn't say either is easier or harder than the other because, quite frankly, both have their hacks and both have their geniuses. Playing like Vai, Satriani or Vaughn is comparable to scratching like Cut Chemist, DJ Shadow or DJ Scratch. All of the aforementioned can do things that mere mortals like the rest of us sit in awe of...but at the same time, any of us with enough practice can at least get a general grasp of some of their techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqd7v9gZU II
From 2:00 on is where you learn why Scratch is, was and will always be considered one of the top dawgs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdzqZBnIQ 2Y&feature=related
Shadow, Cut Chemist and Steinski. Recreating a recording live in front of an audience and doing their thing. This is why a good DJ is worth their weight in gold. If either one of them doesn't get lined up and on track at the right time, the whole thing stalls and it sounds like garbage. If they're offbeat, you'll hear it in the exchange. It's like two guitar players playing every other note of a 4 minute finger tap so that the two guitars sound like one. Either guitarist gets off beat, the whole thing falls apart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsI7ByGwI uE
And this is Satriani showing why playing guitar is considered one of the hardest stage instruments by many people. "Circles" is one of those songs which alot of people think they can play until they actually try. Nothing too complicated about that opening piece, it's chord progressions and simple strumming. But hit 1:23 and try to capture not only the sound but the emotion of that piece? That's something of an enigma to new players and even some intermediates, capturing emotion as well as playing notes.

All-in-all, my opinion is that guitarists and DJ's who scratch should give one another more respect because they are both technically difficult endeavours. So stop moaning and crying.

Peace

At 12/9/08 03:04 PM, InGenius wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdzqZBnIQ 2Y&feature=related
Shadow, Cut Chemist and Steinski.

FUCKING AMAZING!!! :D

At 12/7/08 02:23 PM, Sialys wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:30 PM, Ambimetric wrote: As well as technical knowledge. More technical knowledge than your average joe guitar player guy.

This really hurt... Deep.

I quit reading the thread after I saw that...

Dear sir, you certainly do not fit into the group "average joe guitar player guys".

At 12/4/08 08:26 PM, KgZ wrote: DJs obviously did something right if they got popular

If it's obvious, than why'd you point that out? :P

Tiesto's music isn't all that great. It's catchy, but not the best in the world. The videos you probably saw of Tiesto DJing was probably a small amount if you just started rambling about why you hate Tiesto. It DOES take practise on learning the equipment, learning how to phase in songs. And it can be hard as well, when you got like 10k people screaming at you while all you got are headphones to tell what time to switch songs.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

At 12/9/08 03:44 PM, Nav wrote:

At 12/9/08 03:04 PM, InGenius wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdzqZBnIQ 2Y&feature=related
Shadow, Cut Chemist and Steinski.

FUCKING AMAZING!!! :D

Hell yes, and that one's a classic. Shadow and Cut are without a doubt the best duo in the history of turntablism.

mike relm is a good example of a good VJ

The rants... the rants.. I love it ;). Keep it comin, share the knowledge ;).

Now my point of view.
Back when I was just 12 I adored dj's. I admire everything which they did until...
I started making music myself... I was 14, got an Amiga 500 and started to play
with Protracker. I started to understand the basic of making music in general
and started to realize that Dj's are only the bringers of the sound which we create.
As a producer perspective I do NOT admire the dj's who just do *their thing*
behind the wheels of steel and only bring the sounds like its spinning one
record into the other... but what I DO admire are the guys who really can FEEL what
is happening on the dancefloor, who are in control of the flow.

Then as a little add-on. The line between dj'ing and producing are fading thanks to
Ableton cause now a producer can play his idea's live in front of an audience!
This creates complete new way's of making music AND Spin the turntables!

Its like a pilot and the manufactor of an airplain! Both are hard to handle but one cannot
life without the other. The guys who manufactor the airplain all point their fingers to the
pilot like *heej but you ONLY have to fly it, we did the mainjob, make you able to fly!*
While the Pilot points his finger back laughing *Yeh, thanks for that, now let me do my thing
and shut the hell up!*

All things written above are MY point of perspective and at the same time, my addon to this
ongoing discussion.

Shortly said... one thing cannot go without the other, DEAL WITH IT!

At 12/4/08 05:32 PM, NickSandwich wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:30 PM, Ambimetric wrote:

At 12/4/08 05:29 PM, Hades0013 wrote: Seconded. Being a good DJ really requires a lot of effort and music knowledge.

As well as technical knowledge. More technical knowledge than your average joe guitar player guy.

I dare you to try to back this up.

Aphex Twin.

allot of problems I see with Dj's is that they don't have the oldies anymore, you request anything 70's and lower and you get a half assed remix of different music in that time. then you only hear like, half a minute of the actual song you requested.

At 12/4/08 05:21 PM, Ambimetric wrote: Some DJs are really talented. I bet you couldn't do a mix. And I bet you couldn't scratch that shizzle, foo'!

It's like saying producers shouldn't get paid because they're not playing any instruments.

I agree. LIVE mixing together songs is where the magic really happens.

Download a demo of this program called Deckadance and get a few dance songs and try mixing them together ... ON THE FLY mixing them. Not premade. As in, as the other one ends, you start playing the next one so that it sounds like it was actaully part of the first. It's a bit more trickier than it seems. And then sometimes DJs (good ones) add things ontop of it so they kind of... put their own original spin on a song. Just try it and you'll see that it's harder said than done.

But yeah I do see what you mean. I'm just starting out with this so I'm doing a premade mix... a good premade mix mind you but yeah and I don't expect any big pay off or anything, I'm just doing it so others can have great music to enjoy. I'm just taking credit for compiling and arranging the mix of the songs, nothing else.

Wow.....

Simply....
Wow.........

Coming back to this post after a while, I wonder if people actually READ before they WRITE.
I don't think a single person actually commented about the main point of my post. I never said that "DJing is gay" or "Guitarists are way better" or "OMG a 3 year old could do it." I said, "DJs shouldn't make more money than artists."
A DJ's job is to play good tunes and get a crowd moving and get people to have fun.
I go raving/clubbing, and sure I'll pay $50 to go to a rave where 20-30 different DJs get to do sets. I dance around and listen to the mixes. Some of them are good, and some of them suck balls. Beats don't match, tracks don't flow together, or the DJ will try to do some "really cool shit" with filters, effects and faders but it ends up sounding like ass. Then there's the DJs that are actually good, that can beatmatch, and mix little phrases of tracks inside other tracks, that can do cool shit with filters and delays or scratching. Believe it or not, yes this actually requires a fair amount of talent and musical knowledge, but not NEARLY as much as it would to beatmatch, mix, fade, filter, chop, AS WELL AS compose the music, play the instruments, record them, and master it, as us self-produced musicians do. Granted, doing it live puts a lot more pressure on the DJ not to fuck up, but regardless...
All I was trying to say is that it's stupid to pay $50 to see a dude do one live mix.

At 12/5/08 12:35 AM, EchozAurora wrote: On that note. Calling yourself DJ Whatever because you make tight beats.. but don't have the slightest idea how to mix.. that's dumb as fuck.

People that go by DJ Insert Random Name here just because they are too lazy to come up with an artist name.. they should go jump off a cliff. Srsly.

Word

At 12/4/08 09:32 PM, joshhunsaker wrote: Have you even seen Tiesto's studio?? He makes and mixes his own music actually. I'd do a little more research before stepping out there with a comment like that next time...

You, Sir, are clearly a moron.
Please READ before you write.

At 12/13/08 08:50 PM, NickSandwich wrote: All I was trying to say is that it's stupid to pay $50 to see a dude do one live mix.

W T F

Nobody would pay 50 dollars to go to a rave. They were free originally, and also illegal. Now, most are probably around 10 dollars for entry.

What you sir are paying for is a rock concert. Aka: see one group perform live for the show, not the music. :(