Mumbai attacks: an insult to Islam

[AapoJoki]

As a result of the recent terrorist attacks in Mumbai, India, committed by Jihadists, Muslims worldwide are SCANDALIZED! They're marching by the millions! According to the protesters, these terrorist attacks are a disgrace and an insult to Islam. They say they're deeply offended that such actions have been taken in the name of their religion. By demonstrating against these hateful acts, the masses are hoping to convince the world that Islam is truly a religion of peace. I've never seen the Muslim community so united before. If I was one of them, I would agree that acts of terror, hate and violence, committed by such extremists are the biggest, most vicious and most offensive insult to Islam imaginable.

Oh wait!

THAT NEVER HAPPENED.

Muslims only protest against ABOMINABLE, IMMORAL things like cartoons and teddy bears, which TRULY offend Islam.

In my opinion, this silent approval by the so-called "moderates", who otherwise react so strongly when the name of Islam is put to shame, shows whose side they're on. At least they cannot blame me for getting such impression, considering how insignificant the things are that they do protest against. Or maybe there actually are some Muslims out there who would like to express vocally their disapproval and condemnation of terrorism. But they're probably afraid of getting beheaded or stoned if they go protesting.

Please, show me that there's been at least one protest against these terrorist attacks, held by Muslims. I don't remember seeing any protests after 9/11, 3/11 or 7/7, either.

[Cuppa-LettuceNog]

At 12/3/08 07:56 PM, AapoJoki wrote:

Lalala

Hey, wait a second... OH MY GOD, MILLIONS OF BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T MARCHING IN THE STREETS EITHER!! ALL BLACK PEOPLE SUPPORT MUSLIM TERRORISTS!

No, Lettuceclock, that argument doesn't work because it has to be the same race that committed the crime.

Ok, fine then.

Hey wait a second... OH MY GOD, MILLIONS OF BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T MARCHING IN THE STREETS OVER THE LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF BLACK TORTURE/MURDERS! ALL BLACK PEOPLE SUPPORT BLACK MURDERERS!!

As I've said before, when you looks at the numbers you see that blacks are FAR more likely to kill you or anyone else then a Muslim, and at least the moderate muslims don't blast rap music and act in a fashion that glorifies radical islam. You are a hypocrite, and until you start applying everything you say to Muslim people (E.G every time Muslims do anything wrong all other Muslims must specifically and personally try to right the situation) to blacks, you shall remain a hypocrite.

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/3/08 08:16 PM, Cuppa-LettuceNog wrote: hypocrite.

Hypocrisy may be the next most beautiful word in the english language, after self-indulgence. "Cellar door" i just bullshit; those two words beat it by miles.

[zoolrule]

At 12/3/08 08:16 PM, Cuppa-LettuceNog wrote:

Ok, fine then.

Hey wait a second... OH MY GOD, MILLIONS OF BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T MARCHING IN THE STREETS OVER THE LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF BLACK TORTURE/MURDERS! ALL BLACK PEOPLE SUPPORT BLACK MURDERERS!!

As I've said before, when you looks at the numbers you see that blacks are FAR more likely to kill you or anyone else then a Muslim, and at least the moderate muslims

Something i heard a while ago -
"Only in Islam people are considered moderate if they don't have coincidental urge to murder people"

>don't blast rap music and act in a fashion that glorifies radical islam. You are a hypocrite, and until you start applying everything you say to Muslim people (E.G every time Muslims do anything wrong all other Muslims must specifically and personally try to right the situation) to blacks, you shall remain a hypocrite.

To be honest, i'm not sure that the majority of the Muslims are against this terrorism. Actually i'm pretty sure the majority is supporting it.

So one thing we can erase is that "The religious of peace" thing. Because it's obviously isn't and never was one.

[AapoJoki]

At 12/3/08 08:16 PM, Cuppa-LettuceNog wrote: Hey wait a second... OH MY GOD, MILLIONS OF BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T MARCHING IN THE STREETS OVER THE LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF BLACK TORTURE/MURDERS! ALL BLACK PEOPLE SUPPORT BLACK MURDERERS!!

You missed the point. Normally Muslims will protest at ANYTHING. I realize that black people have protested, even rioted in the past, too. However, blacks tend to protest against social issues like poverty, injustice or racism. Perhaps they don't always have a good cause for protesting, and it's possible the protests go too far, but at least they're trying.

Meanwhile, Muslims have shown in recent years that what really offends them is teddy bears, cartoons, documentary films, the pope and anyone else who express free speech. These things offend Islam, but not terrorism!

Furthermore, black people are united by their skin color, nothing else. I know there's also a culture among blacks, but generally speaking, a black guy cannot control what is said or done in the name of "blackness". What a black guy does, is not the responsibility of the black community. Muslims, on the other hand, are united by IDEOLOGY, not race. They alone determine the rules of their behavior. They decide how a decent Muslim should act. And they don't seem too bothered when these actions include terror.

[Tancrisism]

At 12/3/08 08:24 PM, zoolrule wrote: So one thing we can erase is that "The religious of peace" thing. Because it's obviously isn't and never was one.

Honestly, I considered several ways to reply to various parts of your message, but I got quite frustrated and decided that I am too tired to debate your ignorance. You think you make a logical conclusion based on things you see and read, but apparently you truly know very little about Islam and Muslims. And what can I say that will honestly make you attempt to think?

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/3/08 08:31 PM, AapoJoki wrote: Meanwhile, Muslims have shown in recent years that what really offends them is teddy bears, cartoons, documentary films, the pope and anyone else who express free speech. These things offend Islam, but not terrorism!

Christians threatened to bomb the Ecce Homo exhibition, but they don't threaten to bomb Ku Klux Klan. Does this mean Christians support Ku Klux Klan? No, it doesn't. It means that the assholes are the ones who are loudest.

Also, there is the issue of medial exposure. Muslims protesting against teddy bears get enourmous attention, while at the same time few people even know FMC exists. Also see this.

Now, I'm not saying that Islam is a peaceful religion - none of the world religions are. However, moderate and secular muslims do react, however people won't notice it since it doesn't reach mainstream media. Government-funded media has all reason to increase the we vs. them-feeling, and privately owned media's focus is profit. Tell me, what do you think people find most interesting, other people protesting against murder or other people protesting against teddy bears? What will sell most?

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/3/08 08:31 PM, AapoJoki wrote: Muslims, on the other hand, are united by IDEOLOGY, not race.

As with any religion, there are several ideologies within the religion. Ku Klux Klan and the US Boy Scouts are both christian movements, yet they don't have identical ideologies.

[SouthAsian]

I'm Muslim and I condemn the terrorist attacks as atrocious, despicable, morally insulting, and inhumane.

[SolInvictus]

At 12/3/08 08:31 PM, AapoJoki wrote: You missed the point. Normally Muslims will protest at ANYTHING.

the thing is you need to provide proof that the moderates actually took part in those previous protests. moderates (or the majority; whatever you want to call them) from most religions/groups/ideologies don't give a shit about insulting cartoons and the like, at least not to the point to go out and march in the street. did the majority feel insulted by certain issues? maybe, maybe not, we don't know because they were probably too busy living their lives. do they support the attacks in Mumbai? maybe, maybe not, once again we don't know because they have better things to do than march around yelling stuff they know the world, and those terrorists, won't give a shit about.

[Conspiracy3]

It is an insult to Islam. There aren't widespread protests to it because people are smart enought o know that it won't make a difference.

[Conspiracy3]

At 12/3/08 08:59 PM, Sajberhippien wrote:

At 12/3/08 08:31 PM, AapoJoki wrote: Meanwhile, Muslims have shown in recent years that what really offends them is teddy bears, cartoons, documentary films, the pope and anyone else who express free speech. These things offend Islam, but not terrorism!

Christians threatened to bomb the Ecce Homo exhibition, but they don't threaten to bomb Ku Klux Klan. Does this mean Christians support Ku Klux Klan? No, it doesn't. It means that the assholes are the ones who are loudest.

Also, there is the issue of medial exposure. Muslims protesting against teddy bears get enourmous attention, while at the same time few people even know FMC exists. Also see this.

Now, I'm not saying that Islam is a peaceful religion - none of the world religions are. However, moderate and secular muslims do react, however people won't notice it since it doesn't reach mainstream media. Government-funded media has all reason to increase the we vs. them-feeling, and privately owned media's focus is profit. Tell me, what do you think people find most interesting, other people protesting against murder or other people protesting against teddy bears? What will sell most?

You make a good point. Bombings are more interesting than protests. Protests against teddy bears are more interesting than protests against bombings. The fact is that there are about 1.3 billion Muslims in the world, and extremists make up a very small minority. We don't pay attention to them because they don't bomb us. In order for us to notice them they would have to bomb us... see the irony there?

[mikailus]

Well, maybe if there were some prominent Muslims, famous ones (there are none) that would influence the Western world, surely the Western world would heed, right?

Doubtful. Protests by Muslims are laughed at and paid no attention to. And you wonder why we're so silent.

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/4/08 03:12 AM, mikailus wrote: Well, maybe if there were some prominent Muslims, famous ones (there are none)

OBAMA IS FAMOUS!!!!111oneone

I just couldn't resist

[zephiran]

And it never ocurred to you that the moderate muslim world finally decided that enough is enough?

[JackPhantasm]

Uhm. This isn't the middle ages.

And the leader of like Muslim affairs or whatnot already condemned the attacks.

And SouthAsian.

[Earfetish]

At 12/3/08 08:16 PM, Cuppa-LettuceNog wrote: hypocrite.

hypocrite is the most misunderstood word on the whole internet, he's not a hypocrite, everyone stop calling everyone else a hypocrite cos it's actually a pretty nasty word and you guys always misuse it

Moderate Muslims themselves agree that they are stupidly silent when it comes to terrorism and Darfur and crimes in the name of Islam and I'm under no doubts that if Muslims worldwide protested to make it clear they don't want a Islamic Caliphate it would change a fucking shitload of world policies - there's absolutely no reason why they protest against perceived slights to their religion but don't protest against what's being done in their name.

Think of the worldwide protests against the Iraq war, occuring in countries that weren't planning to commit troops to it. Honestly, one Muslim day where they protest AGAINST terrorism and Jihad FOR women's rights and western values in the name of their BELIEFS would be a beautiful and necessary day, and I know a lot of them agree with it and with me. Comparing this to skin colour is disingenuous and there's absolutely no reason for anyone to disagree with this statement. If they can protest against cartoons, they can protest Al Qaeda.

It's not ALWAYS gays on gay rights protests. Sometimes, straight people think 'this is worth my time'. And this would certainly be worth the Muslim community's time. It'd make us all LOVE them.

Seriously. Nothing anti-Muslim, just this is a great idea. For PR if anything, but it'd fucking humiliate terrorists and regressive Muslims if they realised the rest of the Muslim community wanted modernisation and freedom.

[Earfetish]

At 12/4/08 01:45 PM, Mahadeva wrote: Other Muslim groups have written to their local assembly representatives to say that if the authorities force the militants to be buried in a Muslim graveyard, they too will come out on the streets in protest.

INDIAN Muslims are rather different from Pakistani Muslims.

[Earfetish]

At 12/4/08 02:26 PM, Mahadeva wrote: So the topic title should read: 'Mumbai attacks: an insult to Pakistani Islam'? or 'Mumbai attacks: an insult to non-Indian Islam'?

well there's a difference to how they view it. It's no doubt that Indian Muslims aren't thrilled about an attack on their own soil which isn't particularly nonembracing to them, but there are a lot of different countries where someone like myself might view there to be more mixed opinions, and if the global community of Muslims could loudly make its opinions known then Pakistani and Saudi Muslims might be a little easier on us. Like honestly, if people like myself and the OP think the Muslim community is too quiet about atrocities done in the name of Islam but are too loud about perceived insults, then maybe you are! And maybe it's good PR to be a little noisier! Like honestly, I am in NO DOUBT that the average Muslim doesn't agree with terrorism and is alright or better with Western values, but I don't think the average fundamentalist Muslim thinks that, nor do I think the average virulently anti-Muslim person thinks that. And it would be really significant for you guys to make that clear.

Honestly man, I don't want to come across as thinking all Muslims are terrorists, all I'm saying is, it would be brilliant PR for you guys. Like when that woman was imprisoned for naming a teddy Muhammed - the Darfur genocide was going on at the same time, but Muslims protested the teddy bear. It's hard for us to get behind your community's values when stuff like that happens.

[Jizzlebang]

If it makes you feel any better, my muslim friend from Iraq started to cry when he saw it on the news.

[SolInvictus]

it should also be noted that most terrorists aren't following Imams and other theologians.

[donkey1233]

Islam is just a religion. This whole terrorism scare will blow over in a few years and we'll all be scared of something else.

[CBP]

If this happened with Christians you know damn well that we would not be marching. No religion would, it would draw criticism from everybody, and they would probably be assaulted by someone who had a relative killed or was just mad. Think about this, you are saying that they should be marching because we were attacked.

Christians did not march as a religion when those nut jobs bombed the abortion clinics, why should muslims now?

[Sajberhippien]

At 12/4/08 02:19 PM, Earfetish wrote: Moderate Muslims

are probably not the ones protesting against cartoons either. As I've said, I haven't seen moderate christians take to the streets whenever a christian kills someone or makes a terror attack, despite there having been several christian terror attacks the last decennia (think IRA?) and even now. But there are christians protesting, and even threatening to bomb, against stupid things like the Ecce Homo exhibition.

[Earfetish]

We march all the time. Loads of people march. If they can march for cartoons then they can march for other more important issues.

People in the most regressive countries should march more, but it wouldn't hurt to show solidarity.

If I thought me protesting could in any decent way help chill out the world, I would.

I wouldn't expect them to march if they hadn't had marched so profusely, globally, because of some fucking cartoons. But they did, so they owe us one.

[Buffalow]

At 12/4/08 03:12 AM, mikailus wrote: Well, maybe if there were some prominent Muslims, famous ones (there are none) that would influence the Western world, surely the Western world would heed, right?

Duhh...Mohamed Ali,

[B0BBY-DAVR0]

At 12/3/08 07:56 PM, AapoJoki wrote: In my opinion, this silent approval by the so-called "moderates", who otherwise react so strongly when the name of Islam is put to shame, shows whose side they're on. At least they cannot blame me for getting such impression, considering how insignificant the things are that they do protest against.

They can blame you for being a fucking idiot.

"silent approval" for fuck's sake, what an extremely insidious little boy you are. Language more suited to the far right in my experience. But then that's become typical of so called European liberals.

1 - Moderate Muslims don't "otherwise act so strongly", it's a baseless and retarded claim intended to tar a billion or so people without justification.

2 - Moderate Muslims protesting terrorist atrocities like the Mumbai attacks would be fucking dumb, like they need to be protested against ffs.

"hey Osama some Muslims are protesting against what we do, I don't think they like us!"

"yeah no shit Ahmed you fucking dickhead"

[heroicspatula]

The mumbai attacks weren't Religiously motivated. While the terrorists were Muslim, their reasons were political. They were attacking over the Kashmir, a mountain pass which is disputed between India and Pakistan.

Also, the only Muslims you ever see marching are the fundamentalists.

[B0BBY-DAVR0]

Why aren't all you plebs out protesting against crimes committed by people from the same religious background as yourselves?

AREN'T THEY DOING THIS IN YOUR NAME?!?!?

oh wait no that would be fucking retarded

[B0BBY-DAVR0]

At 12/4/08 08:10 PM, Earfetish wrote: I wouldn't expect them to march if they hadn't had marched so profusely, globally, because of some fucking cartoons. But they did, so they owe us one.

Who is this "they" you talk about, you awful little man?

No Muslim I know went out marching, nor did about a billion others worldwide. This grouping of over a billion individuals into one homogeneous group is very...odd.

Do you think Christians from Bognor Regis should be out protesting against the atrocities committed by Christian tribes in Africa?

Of course you don't. Hypocrite.