Liberals overtaking Canada's gov't

[BigBlueBalls]

Interesting news in Canada, to those who give a shit what's happening on your northern border or Canadians here who are actually experiencing it firsthand. Three parties are banding together, making up a majority of seats in the House of Commons and are about to take over the government and wrestle control from the Conservatives.

This should be a lesson to the Conservatives and to any leading party in the future. DO NOT fuck with the opposition, when you're a minority. You know it's bad when the separatists are joining a coalition with the Liberal Party (former bitter rivals) to bring down the Conservatives.

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Dec01/0 ,4670,CanadaPoliticalCrisis,00.html

Maybe this will wipe the smug little smirk off every Conservative in Canada who told me that they had a de facto majority, giving them the ability to do practically whatever they want. I was so fucking sick of the Conservatives bullying around an opposition too afraid to have an election, but one thing they miscalculated on is that if they push it too far, there's one final option and that is a coalition to bring down the house. Yes the Conservatives still have a say, they do have 143 seats out of 308 (12 shy of a majority), but they just won't be able to have complete control over the debates anymore.

This is democracy in action. This is a government that is trully representative of the majority of Canadians. Not a party with just 37% support and only works to please its own base, while ignoring the other 63% of Canadian's representatives. Yes the Conservatives won the election with a mandate to lead, but that's just it they failed in that mandate and lost confidence of the house.

[SolInvictus]

so we just had an unscheduled election and now they want another. even the provincial governments jumped in.

[mikailus]

At 12/1/08 07:47 PM, SolInvictus wrote: so we just had an unscheduled election and now they want another. even the provincial governments jumped in.

I doubt that will happen. Besides, the last election was illegal. Harper breached his own law and now the Canadian people deserve it. Sometimes when the people lack power because of those in power, it's up for the rest entrusted by us to take it back for us.

[thedo12]

I hate the liberals.......

I mean the conservitives arent perfect, but at least the conservitives dont waste money usless things like gun registry .

[mikailus]

At 12/1/08 10:59 PM, thedo12 wrote: I hate the liberals.......

I mean the conservitives arent perfect, but at least the conservitives dont waste money usless things like gun registry .

I couldn't agree with you more on the Liberals, though the Cons are no more dispicable. The Libs, at this point, however, are the least of the two evils. We have to use what we got while coming up with something better on the side then launching that til its ready.

Oh, and as for the Cons wasting money on the Gun Registry? Why haven't they scrapped it yet?

[mikailus]

... and besides, the Liberals are only going to have a few seats in the government. The NDP will take up most of the cabinet.

[CanadianSnowman]

I'm sorry but when was there a vote?

I want to vote against the coalition, when do I get to do that?

I don't remember it being a democracy when parties can hijack the government by combining their popularity.

What about people who like the Liberals but hate the separatists?

[SolInvictus]

At 12/1/08 10:49 PM, mikailus wrote: I doubt that will happen. Besides, the last election was illegal.

using loopholes is legal.

[mikailus]

In this case, it's necessary. After all, break the law to uphold it at times most dire. This is now. NAO!!!!

[mikailus]

ALSO... Canada hasn't been this exciting in years! What would be better is if we abolish the monarchy in Canada.

[BigBlueBalls]

At 12/2/08 01:37 PM, CanadianSnowman wrote: I'm sorry but when was there a vote?

October 14th, 2008

Are we going to vote every two months until the Conservatives get a majority? Is that how parliament should work?

I want to vote against the coalition, when do I get to do that?

When the House of Commons loses confidence in the coalition. That means if part of the coalition breaks off and the Conservatives join with them, then it will fall and we'll have another election.

I don't remember it being a democracy when parties can hijack the government by combining their popularity.

This happened back in 1926 when the Conservatives joined a coalition with the Progressives and brought down the Liberal Party. Conservatives planned to do this exact same thing with the NDP / Bloc back in 2004, but never went through with it.

What about people who like the Liberals but hate the separatists?

This might actually help mend some fences and bring Quebec closer to the rest of Canada. On the other side of the fence, what will separatists think of joining a coalition with a party that was once their bitter rival? If the result of this is more Quebec support for a united Canada, then Liberal voters might see this as a good thing.

[JoS]

This is a desperate ploy to try and gain control and seize power. The coalition has already admitted they don't have a stimulus plan worked out, but do have a rough number of $30 billion. Basically the plan is keep dishing out cash until you have broken the back of Canada.

The Liberals said in the last election they would not even consider forming a coalition with the NDP. Now they want to make Jack Layton their Minister of Industry. If you thought the TSX's fall yesterday was bad (the largest single day fall since 1987), imagine what will happen if this coalition were to succeed.

I am sorry BBB, this isn't going to bring Canada close together like you think, by letting the bloc have a bigger say. It is going to alienate the country more. This coalition holds 21 seats west of Ontario, most of which are in BC. How do you think they will take this? Infact, how do you think the other 9 provinces are going to feel with Quebec getting even more status and higher payouts? My guess is not too good.

The official coalition is the NDP and Liberals, who combined are short 41 seats of a majority. The Conservatives are short 12 seats. Only the Bloc's support makes this even remotely possible, and they are being bribed to get on board. This coalition, how different are they going to be? They have already said they won't change Afghanistan, the planned corporate tax cuts and a host of other issues the Conservatives are addressing, using their plans. The only thing is this magical $30 billion that they do nto know yet what they will do with.

If you want to bring down the government, fine, but do it after the budget on Jan 27th. Its a smart move to wait to see what Obama will do first. That way we avoid redundancy in funding and can put it wher eit is needed most. If Obama is going to throw $10 billion at a problem why should we throw $1 billion at it when we can put that money elsewhere that is having no funding?

[ManlyMan97]

Harper shouldn't have made a confidence vote! Now it's either a new election or a government people didn't vote for.

[CanadianSnowman]

Anyone else remember a time when government uprisings were met with bullets?

[JoS]

At 12/2/08 08:23 PM, ManlyMan97 wrote: Harper shouldn't have made a confidence vote! Now it's either a new election or a government people didn't vote for.

You are uninformed my friend. The last confidence vote Harper put up was the Throne Speech 2 weeks ago, which was passed. Yesterday was supposed to be Opposition Day, during which they would have tabled a non-confidence motion. No vote has yet to take place, so its entirely possible nothing could become of this.

[Musician]

Look Canadians, I'm not going to get involved in the debate, since I know very little about your country and the arguments in this thread look like they could potentially turn very bitter (much like what happens between Republicans and Democrats, here in the good ol' USA).

However I must implore you to consider one very crucial fact if you're considering re-election. Your current Prime Minister looks like a penis.

[Masterzakk]

At 12/2/08 08:36 PM, CanadianSnowman wrote: Anyone else remember a time when government uprisings were met with bullets?

lol I do remember a time...such good memories *cries*

[mikailus]

Forgive me for stating the obvious but the entire damn colony is in a shambles! And not just in Ottawa!!!

[mikailus]

At 12/2/08 10:56 PM, Musician wrote: However I must implore you to consider one very crucial fact if you're considering re-election. Your current Prime Minister looks like a penis.

Yes, a grotesquely large phallic symbol who uses the discontent of the idiots to rally behind his flaming arse!!!

[Preternatural]

This is hilarious.

Government doesn't do shit anyway.

Whoever wins, no one loses.

[Bolo]

In regards to Canada, the only real interest I have is whether or not Québec decides to withdraw from the country and form its own state.

Are there any current plans in place that are working to this end within Québec, or are any hopes of cleaving Canada in two currently shattered?

[BigBlueBalls]

At 12/2/08 07:14 PM, JoS wrote: This is a desperate ploy to try and gain control and seize power.

Are you telling me the Conservative's budget update, which would make cuts to public funding of parties, wasn't a ploy to cripple the opposition? Did you not read who would be making the biggest sacrifices with that proposal? Either Harper was really dumb or really arrogant, but he's the one who caused this mess from the beginning. Canada gave him a mandate to lead as a minority, not be a complete dick towards the opposition. I know I didn't for an opposition member, so that they'd just stand idly by while the Conservatives got to pass any measure they pleased. We had them on a short minority leash and they have to respect that leash.

I am sorry BBB, this isn't going to bring Canada close together like you think, by letting the bloc have a bigger say. It is going to alienate the country more. This coalition holds 21 seats west of Ontario, most of which are in BC. How do you think they will take this? Infact, how do you think the other 9 provinces are going to feel with Quebec getting even more status and higher payouts? My guess is not too good.

Well before the Bloc Quebecois came on the scene, they always played kingmaker. If you couldn't win in Quebec and Ontario, then you better not even bother trying to win over the country. So now the east's Conservative MPs have united against the west's opposition MPs. Why? Well the west's MPs couldn't maintain the confidence of the house. I could chalk this up to the Conservative's lack of experience in leading a country, let alone a minority government, which is even tougher. The Liberals have had many minority governments and so have the Progressive Conservatives, but none of them ever pissed off the entire house the way these Conservatives have.

I know a coalition is risky. It's certainly uncharted territory for Canada, but it might be the only way of teaching the ruling party that it cannot run the House of Commons like a majority, when it has a minority mandate. Something has to be done to teach them that lesson because an election every two months would just be extremely costly, especially during an economic crisis. Hopefully this won't ever be repeated again, at least for the next 90 years or so because every single party that leads from this point on will learn the lesson that you cannot bully around the entire opposition, while in a minority government.

[JoS]

At 12/3/08 06:19 AM, BigBlueBalls wrote: Are you telling me the Conservative's budget update, which would make cuts to public funding of parties, wasn't a ploy to cripple the opposition? Did you not read who would be making the biggest sacrifices with that proposal?

Under the proposal, the Conservatives stood to loose the most money. However, they are the only party that is not completely reliant on this funding. Was it a move to crush the already beaten Liberals? No doubt. Has that and nearly every grievance the Opposition has been now addressed, yes. There is a difference between not supporting something and voicing your opinions and trying to overthrow the government with an unstable and unpopular coalition.

Well before the Bloc Quebecois came on the scene, they always played kingmaker. If you couldn't win in Quebec and Ontario, then you better not even bother trying to win over the country. So now the east's Conservative MPs have united against the west's opposition MPs.

Actually the Conservatives are represented in all regions of the country. My former riding in Ontario we had a Conservative MP. To say they are exclusively West is not true (although a large portion of their support is from there, and I would like to point out Harper was born and raised in Toronto until he went to University of Calgary), but to say Liberals and NDP are an East party, that is clearly true.

Why? Well the west's MPs couldn't maintain the confidence of the house. I could chalk this up to the Conservative's lack of experience in leading a country, let alone a minority government, which is even tougher.

Once again, lets look at the difference between the policies of the coalition and the Conservatives. Afghanistan = the same, Corporate tax cuts = the same, stimulus package = neither have one ready to go. The only thing they differ on is the package really, and the coalition admits they do not have anything at the moment except this magic number. The Conservatives have said they will have one ready to go for the Jan 27 budget (earliest budget in history BTW). Other than handing out blank cheques, how quickly do you think this coalition can come up with one? Probably at least a month before, if not longer.

The Liberals have had many minority governments and so have the Progressive Conservatives, but none of them ever pissed off the entire house the way these Conservatives have.

Attacking their purse was a bad idea, that makes them bad at politics, but does not mean they are bad for the country. This is born out of partisanship, rather than to help the Canadian people.

I know a coalition is risky. It's certainly uncharted territory for Canada, but it might be the only way of teaching the ruling party that it cannot run the House of Commons like a majority, when it has a minority mandate.

I think the point has already been made, but its a lousy point. The NDP and Liberals are prepared to give the keys to the block in an attempt to gain power. Like I pointed out before, the coalition government is short 41 seats of a majority, the Conservatives are short 12. This coalition can only function by bribing the support of a separatist party. This is even more unstable than a Conservative minority.

[Jerconjake]

This strikes me as being terribly risky for the Liberals and NDP. If the Governor General simply dissolves Parliament and calls an election after the current government is defeated instead of handing power to the coalition, Harper is likely to get his majority anyway.

The Liberals and NDP will now have alienated many of their own supporters. The Liberals are taking an awful gamble here, because they just got hammered in the last election and are nowhere close to being ready for another. This could end up costing them dearly. They, in particular, need time to recouperate, and an undertaking of this sort is most probably unwise unless all goes according to plan.

For their part, the NDP may drop back all their gains in the last election for trying to get too much too quickly (although probably the only way for them). Both parties are going to have to answer to the rest of the nation for working with the Bloc.

The actions of the Coalition are making the Harper government look like a victim, which is only driving up popular support for it. If an election comes after prorogation, the Conservative media machine will be in full swing, and will whip as much of the country as possible into a frenzy. How effectively with the other parties be able to respond? Last I heard, the Liberal Party is all but broke. They may unwittingly be contructing their own demise.

[JoS]

Success, Parliament has been prorogued, preventing anyone from overthrowing the government until January 26th, with a budget to be released January 27th.

[<deleted>]

I hear Harper is out and theres gonna be some sort of Colalition

[JoS]

At 12/5/08 12:21 PM, Labusch wrote: I hear Harper is out and theres gonna be some sort of Colalition

Negative, at least not for the next 2 months. When Parliament resumes I do not see the Coalition having much steam left.

[PowerRangerYELLOW]

At 12/1/08 10:59 PM, thedo12 wrote: I hate the liberals.......

I mean the conservitives arent perfect, but at least the conservitives dont waste money usless things like gun registry .

Tell me about it. By law your supposed to have a license for even a replica firearm.

And worse yet you may have to register as if it were an actual firearm.

[X-Gary-Gigax-X]

At 10/8/09 04:34 PM, PowerRangerYELLOW wrote:

At 12/1/08 10:59 PM, thedo12 wrote: I hate the liberals.......

I mean the conservitives arent perfect, but at least the conservitives dont waste money usless things like gun registry .

Tell me about it. By law your supposed to have a license for even a replica firearm.

And worse yet you may have to register as if it were an actual firearm.

Progressives know they can't outright ban the sale of guns, and that's why they have people go through an avalanche of paperwork, take away your gun if it's not a certain color, or order you to have it registered annually.

These people are patient and confident. They zig when the nation zigs, and when the nation zags the other way, however briefly, they pounce their legislation right on top of you, hoping the next time the country zigs to the right, it'll be taken away with less speed and efficiency until the zaggers don't even try at all.

They're trying to break our will. 'Nuff said.