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At 2/14/05 07:43 PM, Damien_FLAGG wrote:

At 2/14/05 05:40 PM, SkyCube wrote: Quite right, "money is the root of all evil" is only a mis-translation of what the bible says. The original texts said the love of money is the root of all evil.

I love money. Well, perhaps that's not exactly right. I love what money does, which is provide me with the things I need, and want.
Money is the source for all the things that are required, or desired. Everything from the electricity, which I need...to the marijuana, and beer...which I simply enjoy.

MARIJUANA GROWS ON TREES WHY SHOULD YOU PAY FOR IT.

And, I pay for electricity, right? My money goes to power companies, who's sole purpose is to make as much money as they can, in the shortest amount of time possible. Their motivation is greed, and the result of that greed is my house being warm, and my lights being on, and having a stove.

Greed is nasty, but it makes things run. It's why every corporation, every business ever started. It's why every product, that you buy and enjoy, was invented.

I've snipped out your later bit about tech improvements, i'll address it here.

Money DOES NOT = Intellectual riches

Money can buy you books, but it cannot make you read.

No. Some people want simply to make the world a better place, but you're isolated view wont let you see that. Are you telling me that ALL people are exactly the same?

Loving money, and it's affect, doesn't make one evil, neccessarily.

No, but it makes you an apathetic tool of the ruling class. They have even more home comforts than you, and an army to look after it with, and to take yours if they want. Wheres your army?

At 2/14/05 07:30 PM, commanderkai wrote:

Can you even conceive of a revolution of minds? Of people actually talking and learning that greed is bad for everyone? nah, you're evil.

You are asking for a "revolution of minds" by society's lower class, which a good number of them are there because of their lack of education. You see a problem with this?

I do. But they are slowly learning themselves, all they need is some pushing. For my proof - i show you crime. Those that started in the lowest became the most aggressive ie the mafia and their shadowy undergovernment. Whilst this isnt something to be applauded entirely, it shows what poor people can do with strengh of will. Also, crime shows that the poorest are learning the values of the richest, apart from staying within the law. These values are
1) Fuck everyone else who isnt me or my friends
2) If people have to suffer to get what i want - tough shit.

Anyway, where would we be today without greed? Christopher Columbus (spl?) discovered the New World because somebody wanted to find a cheaper way to trade with China. Computers would still be the size of entire rooms if somebody didn't try to find a way to make money off of it by making them smaller and more powerful etc

Indeed, there are benefits to wanting something. But greed is different. Greed is like having all the pie in the world and still wanting more. Do you see?

Why is power such a priority? Why is owning other people a goal in life? GREED!

But it works both ways here, you think the lower classes will start a revolution, why would they do this? For more wealth and power. Thus greed.

True, they want more. But its not something they shouldnt have, The working class do all the work, why shouldnt they have a decent share? Instead, its the people who's daddy knows someone elses daddy being given the power. Someone nice and malleable, like GEORGE.

I know i'm young and ignorant, yet i've heard of millions more deaths at the hands of what you call the winners than the losers. For example, Fascism 'won' in germany, just for a few years, and millions died. I appreciate that that is an extreme example, tho i dont know if you're a fascist or not....

Oh jeez, just because he doesn't believe in your communist bull shit doesn't mean he is a fascist. You want to know something? Communism won in Russia, Eastern Europe and China, 100 million people died.

I agree that large amounts of people died in "communist" russia, however i refute that that the place was truly communist. The alternative answer is that you are told these statistics by the ruling class in some way. But given my cynicism I believe as any left winger of reason would, that either stalin was a cruel dictator, masquerading as a communist. Anyway, i was asked for right wing examples of atrocity, which i duly gave.

Its funny, i've yet to use a word stronger than arrogant, i believe, to defend my argument, yet the ignorant must try to knock down my spirit with withering put downs.

WORLD WAR TWO is more than enough to satisfy the right wing murdering people in recent times.

Listen, guess who supported Hitler? SOCIALISTS!!!

NATIONALISTS who want a dictator = socialists? possibly. Perhaps they supported hitler getting into power, but after? i doubt it.

As for say, america? SLAVERY

No different then collectism (spl?) except you have to pay for the labour.

If you really honestly believe that
and theres no difference between people getting 1)murdered
2)enslaved
3)raped
and owned beyond belief, and people wanting to work together on a task. I've not looked at your profile, but your ignorance says you are american, and a rich one at that.

Whilst i have no proof other than the crimean and boer war that the RIGHT WING GOVERNMENT murdered at least a few thousand native tribespeople of various countries, i'm pretty sure it happened.

Wait a sec here, YOU HAVE NO PROOF, I can say the China went around killing off intellectuals and students.......wait a minute.....this ACTUALLY happened

as did the crimean and boer war. Yet again, China was no communist place, its part of the capitalist plot to debunk communism. Whats the best way than to have it 'debunk itself' even if it was never truly communist, its what chinese upper class said it was....

But the world is full of sheep....

Too bad you lost your flock

I havent found them yet.

Now, compare the amount of food in america that goes to waste compared to how much poor african peoples would need to help them survive.

And we can help them though the technologies created by capitalists. If we wanted to, we can create massive irragation networks all across Africa to support crops just like what Israel did. We can then give them tools to make harvesting more efficient which are made by corporations.

Indeed, the technologies that the enslaved peoples put just as important effort to make. You cant think how? Who do you think grew american work and worked american factories for many years. Therefore, anything idea we can come up with to help them, we actually owe them. They shouldnt owe anything to us, since they did all the shit hard work to make us rich.

If the west didnt RAPE AND PILLAGE their resoureces which the west like, such as oil, and gems, then they would be able to be in this world as equals.

Ha, Rape and pillage my ass. If the leaders of the countries use the money they make off of us for civic buildings and food instead of better weapons to kill each other with, they might already be equals.

Yet again, its the least suitable people coming to power. Yes the africans, they have been raped and pillaged. In more than just the land. If you cant accept this has happened, then you truly are the ultimate tool of the system. A self deluding, master licking labourer. Even if you dont work, you arent fighting the rich. Thats all that matters to them. They have enough workers in poor countries that they keep poor....

I bet that thought scares you. Africans being equals as a world power.

Why the hell would that scare me? Hell, once that happens, screw Foreign aid! If they can, let them, I wouldn't mind buying a shirt from Rwanda and visiting the Ivory Coast for a vacation in a plane made in a Boeing plant in Kenya.

Wow, i cant disagree.

At 2/14/05 07:10 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:

At 2/14/05 06:48 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:
Can you even conceive of a revolution of minds? Of people actually talking and learning that greed is bad for everyone? nah, you're evil.

Can you even concieve "being on the front lines" is a fluid term? Nah, you're a loser.

Damn. You self portrayal as a 'true american' made me underestimate you. I applaud this performance...

Are you telling me you want people who's only priority is power and money to run the world?

Are you saying my only priority is power and money to run the world? Because I would like people who are reflective of my beliefs, ruling me.

And where would your beliefs come from, if you lived in a jungle in a tribal society?

I do not live in the jungle, nor do I desire to.

You're values were forced into you, even better you think its free speech. I can feel your heart rate racing as you read this.

According to this logic, your values were also forced into you. So who's to say who's correct? Prove me wrong in this fact.

True, i am a part of the system. As you can see, i am free to write exactly what i want, because no one will ever believe that the marxist system is write. And as for me having my values forced into me, somehow Britain ingrains a distaste for everything, possibly explaining my values in both our value systems.

power isnt a bad thing, but a malignant, cancerous power that wants only its own beliefs to be spread at the death of others is not good for humanity.

Sounds like what you're preaching right now.

An interesting point.

I know i'm young and ignorant,

Don't believe what your parents and teachers tell you.

yet i've heard of millions more deaths at the hands of what you call the winners than the losers. For example, Fascism 'won' in germany, just for a few years, and millions died.

And the Allies (winners) beat the losers (Hitler). Humanity strives for what it believes is best. To borrow a few words from MLK, There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.

True, but the coalition didnt have a brutal pointless intent to murder millions of people based on... absolutely nothing...

I appreciate that that is an extreme example, tho i dont know if you're a fascist or not....

I'm a conservative. The general consensus among those on the far-left end of the spectrum si that yes, I am fascist. Believe it if that's your cup of tea.

Well, fascism, its an unknown really. They are little more than racists as far as i can tell, tho maybe thats all in the past....

Seriously though, the "deaths of millions" that you refer to, could you please clarify the situation and circumstances? Could you also clarify how your circumstances and situations would be considered justified and 'right' in today's world?

WORLD WAR TWO is more than enough to satisfy the right wing murdering people in recent times.

And Stalin murdering 3x as many of his own people as the Nazi's did Jews? What say you on this? Right wingers are not more responsible for the evils of the Earth than left wingers.

I am defended by someone else. And yet again i will say that it is the Ideological State Apparatus that cause these figures.

As for say, america? SLAVERY

And it's fixed. Humanity striving for the best.

Just a sidenote to the slavery thing: you were aware that rivaling african tribes were a main supplier of african slaves to the europeans, right?

True, but if they had no one to sell them to...? Sure, each tribe would've liked a few slaves from fellow tribes round the place, honor, luxury, but no one wanted slaves like the europeans and americans did. or perhaps you want me to take it back to the first recorded right wing system, the egyptians? They liked slaves too.
I wonder, if you're telling me that people should be slaves to the rich.... People should be slaves to a benevolent genius, though i appreciate that people like that are hard to find.

Britain, owned 75% of the world at the hands of a monarchist government. Whilst i have no proof other than the crimean and boer war that the RIGHT WING GOVERNMENT murdered at least a few thousand native tribespeople of various countries, i'm pretty sure it happened.

Insignificant.

Really? You are making yourself irrelevant. You asked for my proof, i owned you, and you dare to try dismiss me with a single word.

and since i like the idea of world peace and humanity growing out of its primitive, animal greed

I think the only way to grow out, is to revert back to what we were before greedy, complex organisms.

There is only so much nourishment a person needs. Compare how many fat people there are in the west compared to the east. Now, compare the amount of food in america that goes to waste compared to how much poor african peoples would need to help them survive. This is not saying that the africans are unique in being disadvantaged by the capitalism, nor am i saying that they need handouts. It is just further evidence of the disservice done by capitalism. If the west didnt RAPE AND PILLAGE their resoureces which the west like, such as oil, and gems, then they would be able to be in this world as equals. I bet that thought scares you. Africans being equals as a world power.

This is where you sound like a nut. I've got a poker game waiting for me, so I'll keep this brief.

Really? I'm a nut for having some concern about unjust suffering in the world?

I am a hick

Well, yes....

. I would love to be able to live in a society devoid of nearly all the problems and trials and tribulations we have in the world today.

I am also a realist. The world is no longer "small" and "concealed". We live in a world where globalization is a reality, which makes reverting back to times of yonder impossible; short of a gigantic cleansing.

Where is globalization an issue? Its capitalism that like a dirty pond, all the shit floating to the top.

The thought-changing revolution you refer to is not a logical or reliable option in the world we live in.

Ah, a right wing fascist defeatist i see. You must be feeling quite mixed up. I forgive you now.

I take it you like to have a better hedge than your neighbour too...

I live on my own, in a dormatory, in a relatively small college town. Uniformity at it's best.

Ah, someone else from at least the middle class. I bet you always want more, and have no sympathy for any of the worlds poor. Seems so so far anyway.

You do realize your rant makes you sound like a nutcase, right? How much of the world's resources are used to make the rich rich? Would you rather humanity be stripped of all technological advances, medical improvements, and anything else related to modern countries?

Ah, the classic oppositional approach. Encourage onlookers to call me insane, and also assume you know everything about my point of view from a few words. I am not of a typical political breed as you may believe, and you may be shocked that i may actually agree with you one some things, but we'll come to that.

Way to dodge there, dodgy.

Which fine lance thrust did i dodge, noble squire? Was it the assumption i would like to live in a cave and eat moss?

No, i dont think humanity should be cavemen. As the relative of both doctors and dockers i appreciate the scientific way we have come forward. I'm not too sure about the value of technological advances in some contexts. Technology can be incredibly good, indeed, without it we wouldnt be having this debate. Yet the ruling class can use it to repress the people.

If it can used to oppress the people, then it most likely will be used to oppress the people. How do you propose to solve this dilemma?

Hmmm, if it was possible, i'd say kill nearly all the bad people. They are a virus, that we dont yet have an efficient antibody for.
In case you didnt notice, society behaves like a diseased gut, collecting shit and choking the masses.

Ie through religion, education and the media, a police state of the body is not necessary, when they have our minds.

huh?

You dont really want to know. It is the material of the crazy losers as far as you are concerned.

You want to make the world a society of essential cavemen. You want to de-evolve what humanity has become, because you feel people are getting cheated. I don't know how it works your land, but here in America everyone at least has an opportunity to succeed.

Again, you make assumptions, no doubt drawing me out. Well done.

Anyway.... Everyone? You tell me that all black people in the southern states have equal opportunities? You telling me that you can prove that? Whereas i can disprove it with the blatant racism that goes on everywhere. Are you telling me that EVERYONE has just as much chance to make it? That we truly live in a meritocracy? Well, you can believe that all you like.

I thought I summed up your position quite well. And considering you can't refute it, i'm going to have to accept it as truth. Besides, I just cut the trimmings and summarized what your idea would boil down to.

This would be like me saying that, as a right-wing, you are not human, you are part of the neo-nazi collective, who justify mass rape and murder as being right for their cause

I want to know why you feel your world would be better than the one we have today.

Hmmmm, admittedly i'm an idealist. But idealists are necessary for the republicans to argue with. The entire political system divides people into different goals that mostly, they learn from society, since it is a huge force. Whilst i know i'm not answering your question, i'm yet again showing you the system. The only advancements on peoples minds should be say either getting off this dammned soon to be shithole planet, caused by CAPITALISMS values, or spiritual, where this planet can be saved by sheer returning to less technology. Now whilst i could cope with that to an extent, i'd miss the chance of seeing space stuff, so i prefer to follow the technological option.

Thank you for coming clean.

Thank you for failing to refute that capitalism rapes the worlds resources and gives them all in the direction of the rich,

At 2/14/05 06:26 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:

At 2/14/05 06:15 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

At 2/14/05 05:03 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:

Yes. Unfair winners, given a headstart by the system, because they're political affiliation agrees with their own.

Unfair winners? Who determines what is fair or not? The leaders? The people, maybe? Our people believe this is what's fair. You do not. Are you ready to attempt a rebellion over your beliefs? I know I'd be on the front lines defending mine.

Oh goodie. Another person willing to cause violence to defend people who dont deserve their positions of privelege.

Cause violence, eh? I didn't know defense was the cause of violence. Thanks for the lesson.

Can you even conceive of a revolution of minds? Of people actually talking and learning that greed is bad for everyone? nah, you're evil.

Are you telling me you want people who's only priority is power and money to run the world?

Are you saying my only priority is power and money to run the world? Because I would like people who are reflective of my beliefs, ruling me.

And where would your beliefs come from, if you lived in a jungle in a tribal society? You're values were forced into you, even better you think its free speech. I can feel your heart rate racing as you read this.

Human nature's priority is power. You aren't going to change that short of a gigantic cleansing.

Why is power such a priority? Why is owning other people a goal in life? GREED!

Anyway, how can you argue that it is fair?

It's fair because that's life, no matter how hard to try to bend, twist or distort it. People like winners, and winners don't surrender power to losers who would piss it away and simply be dominated by another winner who senses weakness.

Where is this competition?

Human nature. Take a look at history. When one power fails, another always rises in it's place. Are you arguing this does not happen?

Ah so, because something has happened for an immeasurable amount of time its right?

It means it's most likely going to happen again.

True, history does occur in cycles to an extent. And a power isnt a bad thing, but a malignant, cancerous power that wants only its own beliefs to be spread at the death of others is not good for humanity.

So the millions of deaths at the hands of right wing zealots throughout the ages is entirely justified and right?

Just the right wingers, or humanity in general? Gosh, geez, I wish you wouldn't insult me like that, bringing insults into the topic....geez.

I know i'm young and ignorant, yet i've heard of millions more deaths at the hands of what you call the winners than the losers. For example, Fascism 'won' in germany, just for a few years, and millions died. I appreciate that that is an extreme example, tho i dont know if you're a fascist or not....

Seriously though, the "deaths of millions" that you refer to, could you please clarify the situation and circumstances? Could you also clarify how your circumstances and situations would be considered justified and 'right' in today's world?

WORLD WAR TWO is more than enough to satisfy the right wing murdering people in recent times. As for say, america? SLAVERY
many an innocent man will have lost his life to a life of bondage. Muder of the soul, it could be said.

Britain, owned 75% of the world at the hands of a monarchist government. Whilst i have no proof other than the crimean and boer war that the RIGHT WING GOVERNMENT murdered at least a few thousand native tribespeople of various countries, i'm pretty sure it happened.

It is true that it is a 'black and white' matter. You're right, i dont have power. And yes, i would like to have an influence in the way the world is run.

So you....*ahem* .. .. want power?

Interesting, since the classic catch-22 is that those who want power are those who should least likely to have it, and you never find out after the event. But yes, if it was possible to lead goats, and not sheep i would. But the world is full of sheep....

and since i like the idea of world peace and humanity growing out of its primitive, animal greed

I think the only way to grow out, is to revert back to what we were before greedy, complex organisms.

There is only so much nourishment a person needs. Compare how many fat people there are in the west compared to the east. Now, compare the amount of food in america that goes to waste compared to how much poor african peoples would need to help them survive. This is not saying that the africans are unique in being disadvantaged by the capitalism, nor am i saying that they need handouts. It is just further evidence of the disservice done by capitalism. If the west didnt RAPE AND PILLAGE their resoureces which the west like, such as oil, and gems, then they would be able to be in this world as equals. I bet that thought scares you. Africans being equals as a world power.

At 2/14/05 05:20 PM, irritus wrote:

At 2/14/05 03:24 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Are here to support the ruling, rich class. We are unknowing slaves in a democracy of none. The only reason we have votes and systems is because there are now too many of us, and they couldnt be sure they could shoot us in to line.

Complete nonsense. Rich people could not exist without governments. In anarchy, wealth would be something to take from the few. Therefor, in order for their to be people with wealth, gvernments had to come first.

Within your own argument "In anarchy, wealth would be something to take from the few" therefore anarchy came first, did it not?

We are indoctrinated from the right to the left in believing that the political system is for the people. Believe me, there is nothing you can say that can spoil this truth, that i cant make someone take account of.

It is for the people. Sadly most of them are too stupid to realise how to use it. You don't vote, do you?

I dont see the point. What is the point of voting in a system that is a covert dictatorship?

The governments only defence against the demographic i fit into is to call us all paranoid crazy drug abusers, and communists. We are educated by everything around us to believe that its fair, that the richest man in the world has his riches, whilst the poor die.

Communism doesn't work. To cut it down into the simplest concept, adding layers of beaurocracy to every aspect of life is inefficient and leads to rationing. Besides, under communism, the beaurocrats replace the rich as the ones with unfair power and resources.

That is unfortunately correct. But this is down to millenia of indoctrination into human nature by religion, that money = good
The Calvinists held collecting money as sacred and right, as after all, how could you make money without god's approval? The issue that the Catholic Church was the original tool of oppression is ignored by everyone these days it seems....

The richest people could more than afford to help the poorest live, but they do not. Why? Cos they are our masters, we, their slaves....

Here's a though. Why should they? Why would anyone contribute anything to society if they got a free handout? Now I don't like the idea of people starving to death, but I like the idea of society collapsing because you've plasma-screened yourself into credit card debt.

I do see your point, but i'm talking about the REAL poor. People who have nothing, not even a cardboard box. Anyone on handouts because they are lazy or getting themselves into debt because they are sucked into consumer culture has no respect from me. They should learn to look after themselves. And as for your point about contributing to society....

THE AFRICAN PEOPLE'S LANDS HAVE BEEN RAPED AND PILLAGED BY THE WEST BY 'RIGHTS' OF CONQUEST. THEY CONTRIBUTE THEY'RE RESOURCES TO YOUR WEALTHY.

AND THE WEST WONDER WHY EVERY ONE WHO ISNT "WEST" (RICH) FUCKING HATES THEM!

At 2/14/05 05:08 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:

At 2/14/05 04:31 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:
Yet again, you are part of the system.

I like the system :)

I take it you like to have a better hedge than your neighbour too...

Ah, a better bit of debate here. Yes, there needs to be worldwide revolution against capitalism. Just think, how much of the worlds resources are used to make the rich rich. Their wealth is not helping the world, and the ideological state apparatus promote the message that everything is ok. They are parasites on this world more than the poor, yet it is the poor who are destroyed by the state. This tells me something.

You do realize your rant makes you sound like a nutcase, right? How much of the world's resources are used to make the rich rich? Would you rather humanity be stripped of all technological advances, medical improvements, and anything else related to modern countries?

Ah, the classic oppositional approach. Encourage onlookers to call me insane, and also assume you know everything about my point of view from a few words. I am not of a typical political breed as you may believe, and you may be shocked that i may actually agree with you one some things, but we'll come to that.
No, i dont think humanity should be cavemen. As the relative of both doctors and dockers i appreciate the scientific way we have come forward. I'm not too sure about the value of technological advances in some contexts. Technology can be incredibly good, indeed, without it we wouldnt be having this debate. Yet the ruling class can use it to repress the people. Ie through religion, education and the media, a police state of the body is not necessary, when they have our minds.

You want to make the world a society of essential cavemen. You want to de-evolve what humanity has become, because you feel people are getting cheated. I don't know how it works your land, but here in America everyone at least has an opportunity to succeed.

Again, you make assumptions, no doubt drawing me out. Well done.

I want to know why you feel your world would be better than the one we have today.

Hmmmm, admittedly i'm an idealist. But idealists are necessary for the republicans to argue with. The entire political system divides people into different goals that mostly, they learn from society, since it is a huge force. Whilst i know i'm not answering your question, i'm yet again showing you the system. The only advancements on peoples minds should be say either getting off this dammned soon to be shithole planet, caused by CAPITALISMS values, or spiritual, where this planet can be saved by sheer returning to less technology. Now whilst i could cope with that to an extent, i'd miss the chance of seeing space stuff, so i prefer to follow the technological option.

At 2/14/05 05:03 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:

At 2/14/05 04:22 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

At 2/14/05 03:45 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:

Yes, i do like my drugs. Yes, i am a communist.

Great. I no longer give what you say creedance. You are a loser.

OOoh my favourite. I love it when arrogant people call me namesbecause

No, you are part of the problem I referred to in my last post. Losers are problems. While my opinion may be biased, your opinion on our economic system and cultural beliefs is just as "arrogant"

True, however i can rationalise my arguments, without the necessity of political character defamation.

Yes, i oppose many of any governments values. Cos the real truth is, it is not just the governments that own us.

You're right, it's the winners.

Yes. Unfair winners, given a headstart by the system, because they're political affiliation agrees with their own.

Unfair winners? Who determines what is fair or not? The leaders? The people, maybe? Our people believe this is what's fair. You do not. Are you ready to attempt a rebellion over your beliefs? I know I'd be on the front lines defending mine.

Oh goodie. Another person willing to cause violence to defend people who dont deserve their positions of privelege. Are you telling me you want people who's only priority is power and money to run the world?

Anyway, how can you argue that it is fair?

It's fair because that's life, no matter how hard to try to bend, twist or distort it. People like winners, and winners don't surrender power to losers who would piss it away and simply be dominated by another winner who senses weakness.

Where is this competition?

Human nature. Take a look at history. When one power fails, another always rises in it's place. Are you arguing this does not happen?

Ah so, because something has happened for an immeasurable amount of time its right? So the millions of deaths at the hands of right wing zealots throughout the ages is entirely justified and right?

Are you American by any chance?

Yep, how'd you know? Profile?

No, your unbending arrogance in the face of political opinion. Never once have i had to resort to personal insults in this debate.

Neither have I. I simply made it a black and white matter. You fell on the side that doesn't have power (losers) and our ideals fall on the other (winners). Your blunt stupidity indicates you must be a foreign, cheese-eating soccer-loving appeassing hippie.

It is true that it is a 'black and white' matter. You're right, i dont have power. And yes, i would like to have an influence in the way the world is run. and since i like the idea of world peace and humanity growing out of its primitive, animal greed, yes, i am a hippy.

And a twist on the black and white will be presented in another post

That's an insult, stripped of the insinuations.

At 2/14/05 05:31 PM, Damien_FLAGG wrote:

At 2/14/05 03:39 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: The world is owned by money, and money is the root of all evil.

Says the man, as he types on the computer that was bought with 'Evil' money. The computer powered by electricity, payed for with 'evil' money. The computer that's ISP was bought with money. Have you eaten recently? That food was bought with money. Wearing any clothes? That's money, too.

Yeah, i admit i speak from a position of wealth and privelege, but since most of the world do not have access to this global platform, someone must speak for them.

Money is an inanimate object. Inanimate objects cannot, by definition, be 'evil'. Any attempt to convey an inanimate object as 'evil' is simply a futile act of personification.
It's just how things are used, which makes them 'good' or 'bad'.

Hmmm, a valid point perhaps....

At 2/14/05 03:52 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:

At 2/14/05 03:39 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Communism makes sense and is logical because:

Binmen are paid much less than doctors, yet if they all went on strike epidemics can be guaranteed. Ergo, binmen ARE actually important as doctors.

If they all went on strike, the rich people would hire cheap immigrants. The binmen would lose their jobs (unskilled labor is disposable, for the most part), and someone else would step in to take. There is virtually no training required to empty a blokin' garbage can.

Yet again, you are part of the system. You are thinking of the system, yet all these dissidents lives would be broken by their striking. It is just as necessary a function as any other, yet it takes a special kind of mind to take the monotony, which could be argued is a skill in itself.

If all doctors went on strike there would be a shortage until more doctors were trained.

If you're going to reply saying, "but if all binmen everywhere quit, and nobody would step in to take their jobs, the it would work", consider this: In order for this scenerio to be realistic, there would need to be a massive rebellion against capitalism. And even if there were, a big corporation would most likely come up with a more efficient method of transporting wastes, as opposed to binmen.

Ah, a better bit of debate here. Yes, there needs to be worldwide revolution against capitalism. Just think, how much of the worlds resources are used to make the rich rich. Their wealth is not helping the world, and the ideological state apparatus promote the message that everything is ok. They are parasites on this world more than the poor, yet it is the poor who are destroyed by the state. This tells me something.

At 2/14/05 03:45 PM, BeFell wrote:

At 2/14/05 03:42 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Easily fits. The working class need a role model. Someone that can make it, so that they can believe in the system. I dont doubt there are working class that are academically brilliant, but they become absorbed into the values of the middle and upper class.

So it's all a conspiracy to keep us in line? That sounds riduclously complex.

My theory proven - people arent naturally stupid, so an intelligent system is needed to keep them down.

At 2/14/05 03:45 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote:

At 2/14/05 03:36 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

At 2/14/05 03:31 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote: It's as fair as human nature lets it be.

Are you on drugs?

History, and hence whats 'right' is written by the winners, who swam to power through seas of blood.

For the most part, this is how humanity has survived, conquered, spread culture, and assimilated other cultures. Of course it's written by the winners; you wouldn't want the losers spreading their loser ways, would you? Don't let polical correctness fool you: losers are losers for a reason.

Yes, i do like my drugs. Yes, i am a communist.

Great. I no longer give what you say creedance. You are a loser.

OOoh my favourite. I love it when arrogant people call me namesbecause

Yes, i oppose many of any governments values. Cos the real truth is, it is not just the governments that own us.

You're right, it's the winners.

Yes. Unfair winners, given a headstart by the system, because they're political affiliation agrees with their own.

Anyway, how can you argue that it is fair?

It's fair because that's life, no matter how hard to try to bend, twist or distort it. People like winners, and winners don't surrender power to losers who would piss it away and simply be dominated by another winner who senses weakness.

Where is this competition?

Are you American by any chance?

Yep, how'd you know? Profile?

No, your unbending arrogance in the face of political opinion. Never once have i had to resort to personal insults in this debate.

At 2/14/05 03:35 PM, Psychoworm wrote: good thing that they are being made illegal. my dad ate a half bread bag of them when he was in high school and freaked my mom out when he went to see her.

LOL. I hope she was ok. Anyway, this was when he was at highscool. Is he mental now or is he ok?

At 2/14/05 03:37 PM, BeFell wrote: Interesting peice of information, the richest man in the world started out in our class. How does that work into your theory?

Easily fits. The working class need a role model. Someone that can make it, so that they can believe in the system. I dont doubt there are working class that are academically brilliant, but they become absorbed into the values of the middle and upper class.

I am born middle class yes. I do have the luxury of a pc here, and electronic goods. But i have not the luxury of peace of mind, because i know the world is full of shit. The world is owned by money, and money is the root of all evil. People argue that communism is wrong because who's going to be a doctor if binmen get as well paid. What people dont take account of is that they have inverted values in the world today. Binmen are paid much less than doctors, yet if they all went on strike epidemics can be guaranteed. Ergo, binmen ARE actually important as doctors.

At 2/14/05 03:31 PM, -LazyDrunk- wrote: It's as fair as human nature lets it be.

Are you on drugs?

History, and hence whats 'right' is written by the winners, who swam to power through seas of blood. Yes, i do like my drugs. Yes, i am a communist. Yes, i oppose many of any governments values. Cos the real truth is, it is not just the governments that own us. Anyway, how can you argue that it is fair? Are you American by any chance?

At 2/14/05 03:21 PM, Nirvana6969 wrote: Lets all go to amsterfam instead, and get some hookers, and play black jack and do weed and shrooms

Sounds good to me. I thought weed was legal in Canada tho?

Are here to support the ruling, rich class. We are unknowing slaves in a democracy of none. The only reason we have votes and systems is because there are now too many of us, and they couldnt be sure they could shoot us in to line. We are indoctrinated from the right to the left in believing that the political system is for the people. Believe me, there is nothing you can say that can spoil this truth, that i cant make someone take account of. The governments only defence against the demographic i fit into is to call us all paranoid crazy drug abusers, and communists. We are educated by everything around us to believe that its fair, that the richest man in the world has his riches, whilst the poor die. The richest people could more than afford to help the poorest live, but they do not. Why? Cos they are our masters, we, their slaves....

At 2/14/05 03:03 PM, -0706- wrote: Is techno was god it should kill itself.

I see

At 2/14/05 02:14 PM, o__O wrote:

At 2/14/05 01:26 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

I apologise for breathing.

Don't let it happen again.

Ok o__O, i wont. I like your userpic btw. Is that a cat or a rabbit being hoovered up?

At 2/14/05 02:49 PM, WizardSleeve wrote:

At 2/14/05 02:43 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: But while it is an unfortunate death, i blame the mind set and the setting as much as the drug itself.

So true.. like those guys who aparantly take acid and jump off the top of buildings cos they can believe they can fly. What morons... do you see ducks queing up to an elivator to fly south for the winter? No! They take off from the ground!

Indeed. I blame the myths themselves for causing these effects (ever hear of self fulfilling prophecy), as well as people not knowing the difference between the relatively safe psychedelics and the horrible ones, like GHB.

At 2/14/05 02:33 PM, -Dmitry- wrote: It's ok, all Russians drink Vodka daily.
Hunreds of people die daily from drinking/driving or something like that.

By the way she was doing mushrooms with her friends.

Again, i meant no disrespect because of your name, i was just comparing a legal popular, dangerous DRUG with an illegal, dangerous DRUG. :S why the hell was she naked anyway, something tells me its to do with the company she kept that she ran on to the road. What i really meant anyway, is that people on hallucenogenics should have a sober sitter who can look after them to prevent things like this happening. But while it is an unfortunate death, i blame the mind set and the setting as much as the drug itself. Was she intentionally insanely fried? Did her 'friends' make sure she was comfortable and happy? By this result, i can be sure the answer is no.

My main point really, is that while nearly all drugs can cause death, society sets it up so that people get in trouble and die if there is something that it doesnt like. There is no care for people on drugs, as it is clearly all their own faults, and any issues they have with society clearly dont exist....

At 2/14/05 02:26 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

At 2/14/05 02:19 PM, -Dmitry- wrote: A girl that lived about twenty minutes from me died from magic 'shrooms -

She ran only the freeway naked and got hit many times.

Dumb idea to ban? Yeah...really dumb.

I dont mean to give you disrespect, but how many people die each day from a life time of drinking, how many people die from one day of drinking? Its unfortunate that happened to that girl, but no one should ever do hallucinogenics on their own anyway.

Btw i dont use drinking as an example because of your name, more because its legal in many societies and can be incredibly harmful to many people, for which there are figures available somewhere, as opposed to figures available for shrooms and other illegal and no doubt, soon to be illegal substances

At 2/14/05 02:19 PM, -Dmitry- wrote: A girl that lived about twenty minutes from me died from magic 'shrooms -

She ran only the freeway naked and got hit many times.

Dumb idea to ban? Yeah...really dumb.

I dont mean to give you disrespect, but how many people die each day from a life time of drinking, how many people die from one day of drinking? Its unfortunate that happened to that girl, but no one should ever do hallucinogenics on their own anyway.

theres got to be a ganja liberation party candidate in my area, for the love of god.... or ganj....

Oh ok, cheers.

It is a joke. There should be regulation and taxation of psychedelic substances, agreed. Ie people shouldnt drive or be in a position of great power over someones life whilst hallucinating. Ie doctors and the army shouldnt be on them at work. But as for everyone else, what difference does it really make? I can guarantee that everyone likes a musician, who was dependent on a particular substance. Everyone.

At 2/14/05 01:22 PM, nXXt wrote:

At 2/14/05 01:22 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Dont have any great expectations for this piece, its more for baked people than anything else :)

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/view.php?id=1115504&sub=20081

Not quite my style of music, but I guess it's pretty good. This is your first submission to NG right?

It is, and thank you. Clearly its not your average kind of looped music, but that isnt to say its good either :S LOL oh well.

At 2/14/05 01:24 PM, SwatKilla wrote: give urself sum credit, its really good for its type, i see a really high paced (probaly fighting) animation going with this

Thank you. I'm sorry if i appear rude in general, but you're nicer than i first thought :S

At 2/14/05 01:23 PM, o__O wrote:

At 2/14/05 01:22 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Dont have any great expectations for this piece, its more for baked people than anything else :)

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/view.php?id=1115504&sub=20081

My care factor: 0/10.

I apologise for breathing and being uncool enough to actually care about things without being emo. I will not let it happen again.