Newgrounds.com — Everything, By Everyone.

At 4/10/05 12:46 PM, insanatic wrote: Well me and my friend have decided to try a project and we are mostly making metal songs. Now I notice that in a lot of songs people put in different SFX or background music. What we have been doing is he plays guitar and I have been playing drums and bass. We decided to put in some keyboard parts so we both try to make up stuff for that. But it is still kind of plain (plane?), anyway. What ideas do you have in this sence? I notice Rob Zombie has some background sounds a lot. So I am trying to think of ideas. Any help would be appreciated.

Depends entirely what you want to make, and what you think will work. Could do limp dickshit style and just have some naff scratching, or some nice synth that nearly makes up for fred durst being a prick, or go black metal and put an orchestra and choir in the background. The possibilities are endless, its up to you what you use.

At 4/19/05 11:54 PM, Crimson_Edge wrote: How would one go about combining two or more audio files into one? Example:

I have a song I have been working on and have recorded. I play lead along with it, however, I would like to combine my lead and bass to it without recording with the bass and rhythm in the background (I.E. Recording the rhythm first, then recording the bass while the rhythm is playing in the background and then the lead with both playing in the background). I simply just want to be able to splice all three audio files into one without having to record with a pre-recording... if this makes any sense.

Any program suggestions?

If i was to do this, as i have done with previous work, i'd play along to the track to record it, whilst listening to the backing track with headphones on. Personally i'd use zinf or winamp type player to play the backing file and record into either sound recorder or soundforge.

Hope this helps, if not feel free to ask. I am also willing to mix your tracks for free if you cannot be bothered learning.

If you want some drum loops get the hammerhead drum machine. Just google hammerhead bram bros.

But there's no good reason to act like a bunch of fucking cave men. We're not monkies, brother. With cultural advancement, comes capitilism. It's only a matter of time, in all cultures, before capitilism takes root. From Rome, to Spain, to Greece, to America...the more advanced a culture and society are, the deeper ingrained the materialism is. I'm not saying that's right...that's just how things it.

So if its not right, change it. Or you too scared to try? To comfortable, smoking your bud, drinking your beer, having your motor, to dare stir things up? You are no brother of mine, you fool.

It's not the rich, that we're talking about. It's not social classes, or capitilism. It's society, and culture. Over time, people begin demanding capitilism. It's the natural swing. And the masses, over time and indirectly, get exactly what they want. Society, for the most part, wants Wal Mart. They want politicians, and representative government. It all comes back to human nature. That's your enemy. That's everyone's enemy.

I talk of the rich. You talk irrelevance. If human nature is the enemy, then it can be defeated. Not by promoting greed as being a good thing though, can it? People didn’t demand capitalism, it came into existence by someone seizing power through violence, and being primitive about getting something. "oooh that shows that someone wanted it" it shows the greedy wanted it, and they were in a position of power, either through strength or intelligence. If you think this is fair and good, you support the idea of eugenics and genocide.

I believe material goods are used to insulate those that can afford them from the real world, and break the spirits of those that make them everyday, yet live on a pittance, if they live at all..

So be it. Welcome to capitilism, and America. Would you rather have tribes, like certain Africans? Would you forsake science and medicine and all our technology, for equality? Because that's what you're asking for. Without capitilism, every great institution in this country would fail, absolutely.

Absolute bullshit. Without capitalism people who want to do a job and have the skill will still work. If you need money to be a doctor, whats to stop you being the next Harold Shipman? He was a greedy capitalist doctor, who stole from his patients, wrote himself into their wills before he killed them. An extreme example, but it shows the evil of greed.

Without capitalism, there would be far more clever people available, as more people would be alive to learn once the system was set up and running. Only capitalisms resistance to communism would cause the deaths of thousands upon thousands of people. If the greedy saw the evil of their beliefs, and allowed a peaceful transition, quality of life would be far better for many more people.

At 4/19/05 09:36 PM, Chronamut wrote: I think the main difference with reason compared to fl studio is that you have to PLUG EVERYTHING IN -

I think it'd be good for learning how to chain things together in a real studio though. I've only seen it a couple of times though, once at a mates (who's at uni) and on the website

I agree it'd be good, it'd encourage artists to work together and have creative partnerships/collectives. It'd lead to interesting pairings, like a synth player and a digital producer, or a band formed over the internet, laying down tracks and then sending them to a producer, (or trainee mixer like myself/shameless plug).

Seriously tho, if it can be done for flash, why not for audio?

At 4/14/05 11:15 PM, Erkie wrote: I don't recall him, but I think I might remember some buzz back then.

Is he a comedian?

He does lounge versions of popular music. I've never heard a funnier sacrilege than Enter Sandman by metallica done in a jazz style.

At 4/19/05 01:53 AM, Erkie wrote:
Popular mainstream genres on the portal (and maybe the world) are trance and dance, which I do not personally like on a regular basis because there's no level of intrigue or complexity,

I disagree, there is good complex trance in there, but its buried under copy-a-like shit. Miniature fantasy i think its called, by dreamscaper is far better than any trance i've ever heard on any UK MOS cd's, and in the UK charts, tho i dont know about the US.... :S

At 4/19/05 10:06 PM, dsmking wrote:

Okay i have a philosophical question for everyone. Would you consider yourself a martial artist? If so why? Just cause you take a martial arts, cause your a high belt, cause you practice all the type, cause you practice the philosophy as well? I'll tell you what i think once everyone answers.

I'm a martial artist as i believe in ki, and seeking harmony with the universe, but i'm not a martial artist as i have not been training for a long time, am lazy disorganised and not using my full potential. I also want to be able to severely hurt someone who's attacking me than follow a form, even though if you're skilled they are the same thing :S

At 4/19/05 07:17 PM, thedarkguardian wrote:

At 4/18/05 07:44 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

Sounds like a wise man. Discount my opinion, completely, i just have a big mouth when it comes to martial arts. When it comes to put up or shut up, i shut up :)

hahaha, you and Raman would get along well. he used that expression once. he said, when it comes to put up or shut up, i prefer shut up. never engage unless engaged, otherwise you are just as bad as the initial attacker. if he just says mean things to you, laugh them off and leave him alone.

I agree, and the funniest arts like aikido work better if people believe you are weak, if you dont stand up to them. It means its more of a shock when you wrist lock them :)
If someone wants to mouth off at me, its fine, I just feel sad that someones that angry they have to take it out on me. Or i just laugh after i've walked away :) Eithers good.

Thanks for the addition. I'd like to take this moment to say I am NOT responsible AT ALL for the clock crew rap. :) If earfetish sees this, i say HALLO! I'm on the inhale mary - dj bj track.

Welfare is where poor people show how greedy they can be. Who needs work when they can live off other people for absolutely nothing. I'm sure some people actually need it, but there are much better ways to solve problems then throwing money at it, like actually helping them to get an education or a job.

Indeed, getting them education or a job. But welfare serves mostly to keep those who disagree with the system alive, so that they become labelled as scroungers and dossers, when many refuse to work for a system that is unequal and exploitative.

What better way to get cheap, willing labour than if people have to fight to get a job?

By making your own worker which needs no pension or healthcare, robotics.

Not yet happened in every job, and you know it.

Tell me people dying of famine, now, this second, and this second, and this second have a chance to make it big time.

If the UN stop being such assholes and actually helped the people grow their own food, maybe we wouldn't have these problems with people starving in Africa. And the people who lives in the US and are poor, do NOT quit school, if you do, you will stay desperately poor, finish schooling, get a reliable job, go to night college, get a better job, and while you are doing that, do NOT waste your money, save or invest it. If you are lucky (the x factor of every capitalist) or just really a good investor, you should be a Middle Class worker.

Sure, just follow the system, and ignore the starving millions. Keep your head down and worship your material goods. Eventually it’ll all seem to go away.

Fuck off bubble boy, you have some good points but you mostly chat shit.

Pfft, ironic, you are the one calling for a revolution and you tell me that I'm in dreamland.

Wow, you’ve shown some awareness of the poverty outside your own arrogant shit of a country, but you still believe in the system. Bubble.

At 4/19/05 08:10 PM, commanderkai wrote:

At 4/19/05 04:01 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

Just as capable as the rich. They just havent got the knowledge yet.

Ha! Like I said before, they can't even mamage their own money so they can improve their lives, how the hell would they be able to manage other people lives without fear, greed and power?

You are shallow and full of shit. How can people with no money and food, and are dying of starvation, get money? Its impossible, because the system has made it this way.

So you believe everyone is greedy? As a direct slap in your face, look at buddhism.

The greed is still there, but it is surpressed. It is a human trait, but some people show their greediness more then others. Plus, buddists are peaceful, so are a bunch of pacifist buddists going to start a revolution to make themselves more powerful? No, of course not, since they are peaceful and will never fight for your cause.

Right, so even if greed is there, it can be suppressed, and they dont seem too sad about not having any greed. Would pacifist buddhists fight to improve the world? I think they would.

Sure communism tries to modify mankind, its so that fewer good people die.

And who defines "good" people? You? And what is the defiinition of good people in your eyes?

People that never have a chance to shine, because they die because of the system. The poorest of people are the majority. You implying that the poor are poor, and its all their own fault, like any other capitalist scumbag will?

Capitalism has already warped humanity, theres not much else it needs to do apart from maintain the status quo.

Capitalism hasn't done anything to humanity, it just embraces one of the basic aspects of mankind: The lust for wealth, knowledge, power and resources. And it does it so everyone has a fair shot of doing so, the poor can manage their wealth so they can become a Middle Class citizen by intelligently investing or saving to increase their wealth. More and more people become millionaires every year, those people are not lucky but smart, and they deserve what they get

Bullshit. If you have nothing, and can barely live, where can you start to have this equal shot you go on about?

Anyway, how has capitalism "warped" humanity in your eyes?

It has made people seek material goods and not care about suffering of fellow man.

Thats why the revolution must happen soon,

Sorry, you lost your chance many years ago, many jobs that support the working class are leaving the areas where the wealth is concentrated (US, Canada, Europe, Australia, Japan) and the middle class of the world's largest nations of China and India are growing like crazy due to capitalism. Unless you want African and Carribbean civilians to die off even faster due to your lust for power, you should just give up.

My lust for power? Are you on crack? All i wanna be is a musician. Please explain your bullshit here, it makes absolutely no sense.

before an insane greedy madman who hates humanity just removes them, and lives with his robot friends.

Not really greedy, just cheap, since he isn't trying to expand his wealth, all he is doing is trying to conserve it.

At the death of other people? What gives any man right to kill a group of people, for the sake of preserving his wealth?

See many points. The military are people, as much as they are dehumanized. If they became aware of the evil they support, they would gladly help.

Calling them dehumanized doesn't appeal to them though, good luck if you try recruiting them at your local military base. I'll hope that you don't receive any broken bones or anything.

Military are dehumanized to an extent. Makes them malleable tools of the system. Wow, you gonna tell the army that I know that they are conditioned into killers? I’m sure they’ll cry over that.

Bullshit. The human mind IS controlled. People are GIVEN values and rules to live by, written and unwritten.

All this shows that the mind is oppressed as well as our human traits, thank you for proving my points.

Your points? My point you thieving bastard.

Therefore, if people can be taught to be greedy, they can be taught to not be.

Where are people taught to be greedy? Is it a school or something?

The school of life. From birth people are encouraged to hoard wealth to themselves, by the carrot and stick of seeing the rich and the poor. On tv you don’t often see poor people saying ooooh, fuck getting rich, I’m quite happy living in this box, do you?

Yes. Rage and anger are forces to deal with. Would the government use nukes and missiles against the people? If you say yes, that shows you know the government is evil.

Missiles, yes, big deal they are weapons used in modern warfare, nukes, if you take control and use a nuke, don't expect them to be pleased with it, maybe a few small tactical nukes, no ICBMs or anything.

So you’re saying that there are crazy in people in the government, who would nuke their own people, even if a majority wanted to change the system?

Mind control happens everyday. Would you attack someone in the street for no apparent reason?

Rage, anger, criminal desires, stupidity.

If humanity is as greedy as you say, and evil, then you wouldnt have a second thought, or even a first.

What does thinking things over have anything to do with greed? If I had the choice to beat the shit out of someone to steal $20 and have my ass sent to jail for 2 years I would rather ignore him and be on my way.

Wow, so you can be greedy and smart. I never would have guessed…..

This is mind control.

Hmmm....let me try.....*starts attempting to mind control SpamWarrior to kill his parents/family* Did it work? No, of course not, because if it did, you would not be on this site.

FUCKING PRICK STOP CHOPPING OUT THE POINTS I OWN YOUR PANSY ARSE ON. COWARD

Yes, because taxes are so excessive because the rich are paying for wasteful programs like welfare that they are sick of it.

Yes, because the rich really need that second house, 4th car.. How about helping the poor by building them schools, and giving them the means of production? They rely on handouts because we make them. If they try to work they suddenly owe the west money, as a country.

An attempt to summarise:

Capitalism causes transient, fleeting pleasure for the few. Many of the many dont even get a life.

Communism is about humanity working together to improve itself, and remove greed.
If you say greed isnt a bad thing and you're religious, you're a hypocrite.
If you say greed is good, then you are a murderer by proxy. If you do not care that you are a murderer in this way, it means you love genocide.

Capitalism encourages technological growth whilst neglecting the issue of mental growth. This is to ensure the ignorance and powerlessness of the lower classes, whilst the rich reap the rewards.

Communism is about encouraging mental growth, which will inevitably lead to technological growth and progress.

Capitalism is about trying to seek security through amassing wealth, and having superior material goods, such as a nicer stereo, car whatever.
It is about being in a bubble, isolated from the real issues of the world whilst enjoying the benefits it brings. Ie, enjoying your new car whilst ignoring the fact that people are dying from famine, and not even feeling the slightest bit sad or guilty.

Communism is about everyone having the same basic needs fulfilled, which are not now under capitalism. These needs are food shelter peace and education.

Capitalism is about blaming other people for problems, whole demographics in order to divide the people. For example, USA blames muslims, muslims blame the west.
A general view, but unfortunately accurate.

Or, problems in the uk - muslims get blamed by everyone, or whites get blamed for being too harsh or nice to ethnic groups by the other whites.
This is just the recent shit. In the past there are many examples.

With the people polarised and poised to fight each other, the focus again leaves the true cause of the problem, which is : the needlessly unfair concentration of wealth.
The richest people have more money than the poorest countries. That is fact.
The rich dont want to help as many people live with this wealth they have, if they did, they wouldnt be rich anymore.

So, you argue what right have i to say that someone should not earn any more than any other man? Because it causes death. Murder by starvation.

Now here's a strange thing. People are dying from famine because of the capitalist machine, yet the popular belief is that communism causes famine.

Communism has never existed, any country that claims it is almost certainly isnt.

Communism cannot exist in a country, as the capitalist machine will turn against any true communism. Any form of communism found the world resembles a dictatorship, a bad one, to an insane degree. This is so that the capitalist machine can discredit communism in the general public's eyes, and therefore the people will blame human nature for being wrong, and not the machine.

People say its bullshit about mind control. Bollocks to you. You think i'm some crackhead talking about mind rays, dont you. I talk of socialisation. if you dont know what anything i say means, google it. Dont be so fucking lazy as to expect other people to think for you.

The system has nearly everything, if not everything covered to prevent the people from having any idea what truly goes on. If you do see through the system and act directly, by bombing a police station for example, you are a criminal and/or insane and get arrested.
Alternatively, if you are from the middle class, like myself and try and act by spreading the message the only people who agree with you are also likely to like alternative culture, whether its drugs or not. You become ignored as another damn lazy youth.
If you are from the middle class, people will just say, "what're you whining for".

Anything that could go wrong is taken account of. If theres a mass revolution in a country and the people rise up, exactly the wrong people take over the country, and nothing changes. The machine is vastly complex, and this is only a small piece of it.

At 4/19/05 01:36 PM, commanderkai wrote:

At 4/19/05 01:14 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

The rich have made it this way. You implying that poor and uneducated people are incapable of learning?

Nope, I never said that, but they are not capable of running a country and millions of people while keeping them content and peaceful.

Just as capable as the rich. They just havent got the knowledge yet.

To remove the greed ridden capitalist beliefs.

You can not get rid of greed, it is a human quality, it is what makes us human. Capitalism benefit from what we are while Communism tries to moify mankind to it's beliefs. No matter how much you try, people will still be greedy, no matter if you are rich or poor, smart or stupid, young and old.

So you believe everyone is greedy? As a direct slap in your face, look at buddhism. Sure communism tries to modify mankind, its so that fewer good people die.
Capitalism has already warped humanity, theres not much else it needs to do apart from maintain the status quo.

The rich cannot kill every peasant. They need the workers at the moment.

Key words, at the moment. Sooner or later, if you start becoming discontent with their place in society and are unwilling to improve themselves to society standards and they just want to change society so it would save energy from their lazy asses. The ruling and middle class will replace them with robotics and computers. Then they could put them on ice caps to start their own society and leave everyone else alone.

Thats why the revolution must happen soon, before an insane greedy madman who hates humanity just removes them, and lives with his robot friends.

Soldiers are people too, remember? Soldiers are working class, except the officers mostly.

Soldiers though, are loyal to this government and they will most likely stay that way. Even if they aren't, the government will easily hire mercs to crush the rebels

See many points. The military are people, as much as they are dehumanized. If they became aware of the evil they support, they would gladly help.

Why not control it?

Because it is impossible, you can't control the human mind, you can only oppress it or live with it.

Bullshit. The human mind IS controlled. People are GIVEN values and rules to live by, written and unwritten. Therefore, if people can be taught to be greedy, they can be taught to not be.

The need to survive is slowly replaced by the desire to fit in and not cause trouble, which are similar things, tho not the same.

You are calling for an uprising, then you are saying that the formerly rich and middle class citizens of this nations will just deal with it? They are not pushovers, they are real threats, they will fight you to the end because of the atrocities your forces committed by looting their homes and businesses and killing off their family members. Rage and anger are forces to deal with, every city in the US would become Stalingrad because they will not just sit on their ass waiting for their lives to be marginally better when their lives were much better before the uprising

Yes. Rage and anger are forces to deal with. Would the government use nukes and missiles against the people? If you say yes, that shows you know the government is evil.

Prove to me that it cannot be done. It is mere bullshit negative speculation. You have been indoctrinated.

What? The Revolution or mind control, either of them will never happen. First due to American military might and the sheer anger of the Middle and Upper Classes and the second since it is not possible to mind control people, stop playing Red Alert 2

Mind control happens everyday. Would you attack someone in the street for no apparent reason? If humanity is as greedy as you say, and evil, then you wouldnt have a second thought, or even a first. As it is, you know its wrong to attack someone for no good reason. This is mind control. Just because this example isnt obviously evil doesnt mean the state doesnt control you. Stop trying to play mind games. If wit was shit you'd be constipated.

What do you call taxes?

A sham. A fakery. The rich middle class know about tax loopholes and things you can get away with if you have the knowledge, so that only a small percent goes back to the people, and the rest goes to tax havens.

Yes, because taxes are so excessive because the rich are paying for wasteful programs like welfare that they are sick of it.

Yes, because its wrong to try keep people alive, after all, who cares? If there's not enough jobs and food, it is because it suits the richest for it to be this way. What better way to get cheap, willing labour than if people have to fight to get a job?

Concession, to make people believe that the system is not inherently evil.

Because it isn't evil, nobody is truly being screwed over. Everyone has oppertunity and those who are lucky and determined becomes sucessful (there are other factors but these two are the non-materialistic ones)

Tell me people dying of famine, now, this second, and this second, and this second have a chance to make it big time. Fuck off bubble boy, you have some good points but you mostly chat shit.

At 4/19/05 06:41 AM, Pandora_Tranquil wrote: yuck.... loops....

trust me you would like fruityloops much better, or any other program at that.
it don feel like its really yours if u make it with a bunch of melodys other ppl made (loops)
(at least thats how i feel)

So people can make their own melodys with a bunch of synth sounds other people made? I only simplify because you do. Loops are there for practice and sounds. Not everyone has access to instruments they can input, so to use a loop and put effects on it is just like using a fruity synth.

If you are truly rich and hardcore, you'll go buy or steal your own analog synths, and not use software someone else has made to make your own shit.

Do you see what i'm saying?

Everyone makes music in their own way, on shit other people have made, unless they actually make their own synthesisers, and mixing programmes, etc, etc.

Sure using other's loops isnt professional, but for learning who actually gives a shit apart from you?

At 4/18/05 10:34 PM, Damien_FLAGG wrote: I disagree. Not everyone can push paper, and not everyone can build a house. Not everyone can be a janitor, and not everyone can be a politician. People have certain capacities in some areas, but not in others. Blue collar could build and build and build all day long...but without all the other professions, they'd starve just as quick.

Pushing paper and arranging shit is truly not necessary to pay someone else extreme amounts of money to do. You're slightly increasing the size of the pie, yet giving yourself the same size slice.
The ceo needs the workers, far more than the people need a fat cat ceo. Sure, maybe things are different in your family business, but i'm referring to the business of the entire fucking world. The business is this:
1.pay workers least as possible to maximise profit
2.Tell them that it is their own fault they dont have enough

Most people start at the bottom, whether you're an office worker, or an electrician. Most people don't just start out in a high paying, enjoyable job. Even the politician goes to law school, and serves in several public official positions.

Indeed. But different tiers have different bottoms. How many politicians and lawyers get into office that come from the poverty stricken areas? A token couple maybe, just another concession to the working class.

So is the nature of any advanced nation.

Advanced? Advancedly manipulative. Those born rich are more likely to have easier jobs and an easier life than those who are born in a box. Oh wait, you cant see past your own cloud of bullshit, that stops you seeing the harsh realities of life. Forget i spoke, you'll never get it.

How much (approx.) does a teacher in your country make, anually?

Not as much as somone who sits on their fat arse and does nothing, who has it made.

You dodged my question. Either answer it, or admit you don't know, or drop the point.

I dont know, but see previous point regarding teachers.

When it comes to blue-collar, you literally reap what you sow. The harder I'm willing to work, and the more hours I put in, the more money I make. Period. It's totally up to me, when it comes to how much money I make, and how hard i'm willing to work. THAT'S my share. It's not guaranteed, no...and it shouldn't be. But that oppurtunity is there.

Your opportunity is to make you into part of the machine even more. Richer and therefore uncaring.

You're an idiot, if you think any company could survive without the top managment. The lowly builders are too busy building, to manage the company. And, in turn, the managers are too busy keeping the business in line, that they have no time for building. There's no 'I' in team. No one group can run the whole business.

How about corner shops? They own the place and run the place. Sure its small, still a business though. Someone who can organize is needed, but thats no better skill than being able to build a house or condo. The fact they take the largest wages is insane.

In a place of no competition and greed, no ceo in its current form is needed, not even for the largest of manufacturers.

They get told they are lucky to have a job, and if they dont like it tough, someone else'll have the job.

And that's completely true. That's why a company, in the blue collar business, must be exceptional. That means the lowest bids, and the highest quality work. As I've said, I get paid based on job performance.

So it benefits the consumer, you think? Who's the consumer? The middle class, the poor dont pay for shit. So this is a connection to keeping the middle class placid....

You're not even making sense. What does competitive prices have to do with keeping the middle class 'placid'? You're nothing but a generic conspiracy theorist.

The middle class are the consumer. They think that everythings ok if they can get the best for the least. Fuckgeddabout other people. You're nothing but a small minded muppet. FOAD.

Fine, if you have no skill whatsoever, dont do that job, i can agree with that view. I disagree with people being prevented from reaching their potentials by a bunch of scheming rich people.

And I'm telling you...no one is, currently, sceming against my job. Or my Father's, at AP Hill. Or my girlfriends, in the Deli. We reap what we sow, in this country. The more hours of your life you put into a given task, the farther you succeed. Wealth isn't suppossed to be easy, for everyone.

Wealth shouldnt even exist. Wheres the great ideal in following someone who does fuck all, gets someone else to do the work and gets the credit? Your glorious leader even has his thinking done for him.

BTW you are an arrogant shit if you look only to your own country for examples of how life should be. America cant let poor people be seen on the streets too often, or people will think there is something wrong with society. So it lets them die, often related to a drug addiction to discredit any problems they had with society. Alternatively they become criminal, which suits the system perfectly, as they can then have a police force to crush the criminals. This shows the police as being benevolent to the middle class. The middle class is the key. Once they realise that they are truly no different from the poorest, then revolution can begin.

Comfort, and ease, are offered in advanced societies. Blame humans, for advancing so far up the social chain. We could be primates in tribes in the woods, huddling entire villiages near great bon fires for warmth. We could cease giving vaccinations, and immunizations. We could do away with advanced western medicine.

Nice tasty bullshit for goons to feed on, you spout. The desire to help and the ability to learn do not need money to exist. How the fuck do you think we made it this far, before the concept of money? Mankind has a natural instinct to help each other, it came from defending ourselves from other species, and from hunting them. Working together to increase the whole. Mankind also obviously has a natural drive to learn, or we wouldnt have made it even to ancient civilisation yet.

At 4/19/05 11:37 AM, skyhammer wrote: The reason capitalism doesn't work is because you people are so fucking stupid and lazy. You expect the government to take care of your pansy asses. Well guess what happens if the government fucks up? You go down with them!

I dont see who's side you're actually on on this issue, but i'll use you as an example. The government makes people trust and respect it, when it is but a tool of the system, to encourage people to welcome stupidity, and ignorance about the system. People trust the government, the government does something wrong, so a new political party gets in power. The cycle continues. The people are trapped in a spin cycle in which they dont know who to trust, but trust that the institution is ok, whereas it is the institution itself that is blatantly wrong.

At 4/18/05 10:28 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 4/18/05 08:08 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

At 4/18/05 06:49 PM, Elfer wrote: It needs to be achieved by GRADUALLY changing society. Whenever there's a revolution, there's always a large group that harbours resentment, and that can fuck a lot of things up.

Yes, that group are the capitalists, and they should adapt or die.

Again, the problem is that they will harbour resentment, they'll teach their children that socialism is filthy and to hate the system, eventually the socialist government will be overthrown, and all of the bloodshed will be for nothing.

It is a possibility, but the longer the rich stay in power exploiting people, the more people will die, and there will be small uprisings which will easily be crushed, and cow the people even more. There needs to be simultaneous anarchy against the system, or no action at all.

I'm saying what needs to be done is that people need to teach their children that it's better and more important to work for society and the greater good than for the good of yourself. This needs to become the overwhelming message in society before a stable socialist government can be put into place.

Indeed. This can happen at the same time of the revolution, perhaps using the same methods of manipulation the capitalists use.

II don't really think that it's necessary for so many people to die and so many lives to be ruined just to fix the economy.

People are dying whilst the system is not being overthrown. They are just not obvious in western society. Go to the east, see the poverty. These people are dying through the rich not caring. Who should care if a greedy man loses his life? His existence causes the death of countless others....

At 4/19/05 12:58 AM, commanderkai wrote:

At 4/18/05 07:21 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Only bloody revolution can bring
a) instant removal of the rich from their means of owning the world

To be replaced by who? The poor and uneducated which have problems managing their own lives without the worry of managing millions of people

The rich have made it this way. You implying that poor and uneducated people are incapable of learning?

b) control of the state apparatus of education, media, police and military, etc.

I bet for brainwashing the people and forcing socialist beliefs on them

To remove the greed ridden capitalist beliefs.

A bloody revolution will just be a big disaster for your cause, the rich already have control of the military and they can easily hire Soldiers of Fortunes for their cause. That doesn't even count how the Middle Class will affect the outcome of the revolution.

The rich cannot kill every peasant. They need the workers at the moment. Soldiers are people too, remember? Soldiers are working class, except the officers mostly.

To remove the greed and selfish behaviours, these must be controlled.

You can not control a part of humanity. No matter how hard you can try, it is impossible with this kind of technologies (unless you have mind control shit in your basement)

Why not control it? The need to survive is slowly replaced by the desire to fit in and not cause trouble, which are similar things, tho not the same.
Prove to me that it cannot be done. It is mere bullshit negative speculation. You have been indoctrinated.

by forcing the rich to give concessions.

What do you call taxes?

A sham. A fakery. The rich middle class know about tax loopholes and things you can get away with if you have the knowledge, so that only a small percent goes back to the people, and the rest goes to tax havens.

Since concessions are only given when the working class are provoked, it shows there needs to be action.

Yes and I'm sure that the rich never donate their hard earned money and time to a good cause, no, that surpasses their compassion levels.

Concession, to make people believe that the system is not inherently evil.

At 3/13/05 05:07 PM, airraid81 wrote:

At 3/13/05 04:46 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

Yet, the work is not made humane. People work in situations in different countries making things for us for shit wages. The west makes a huge profit, couple this with the fact that the "1st World" is built on slavery, and we raped the resources of country's all over the world. We stole their resources and make them work like dogs to get a shitty fraction back. They fuled our world, they should have a much greater say in what goes on.

How did we "rape the resources of country's all over the world?" You must be talking about how we go into other countries such as Iraq to get rid of dictators.

IGNORANT FUCKING SLAVE DRIVER DO YOU NOT REMEMBER BLACK SLAVERY AND THE PILLAGING OF AFRICA?

Too much money = too much power and luxury at the expense of other people's lives.

All this shit about giving people "charity". We should overthrow the system so that these people can have what they want. But people are enslaved in western society into these evil values, and double standards. Do you ever look at another country, and feel guilty, then carry on your day and enjoy your shit without even caring who its made by?

Not everyone deserves the same amount of money. If you work hard and do a good job, then you will make more money. You can talk all you want about how rich CEOs and executives can live richly and not do much work, but they have one of the hardest jobs. They have to make tough business decisions that effect the entire company. If it was really so easy to have their job, then there would be more people with that job and they would be making less money.

Why is making money so important? Anyway, ceo's couldnt exist without the lowest workers, but they could survive without him, if they were in a farming trade or mining business, for example....

If so, this is why "terrorists" target the west. I do not condone muder and violence, but the atrocities the rich commit on the poor are murder. Someone dies in africa every three seconds, that could be prevented. In the first world we are the honey and the sting. They want it, rightfully in many cases.

The USA has nothing to do with whats happening in Africa. The corrupt governments

BULLSHIT NUMBER 1 The usa is built on slavery. In exchange we gave them guns and national debt by our values.

in Africa are responsible for the atrocities, not the US. We are separated by an ocean,

And that stopped people sailing over there, how exactly?

and we do not have any say in what happens over there. We cannot do much to help them, because we already have our military in Iraq, and even if we brought it to Africa to help out over there, you would probably be one of the first people bitching about how "Bush is trying to take over the world."

Yes. Fuck military help. Humanitarian help, now that i can see working. Anyway, bush hasnt the brains to own the world, he must have help from a lot of people.

America is not the true owner, but the heavy weaponry. It owns technology of media and military, and education that influences the entire world, whether it wants influencing or not. Just because someone doesnt like america and its arrogant attitude doesnt make them a bad person.

At 4/18/05 07:19 PM, Rooster349 wrote:

At 4/18/05 07:08 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: Define "pure capitalist" and yes, there has never been ANY Marxist economy.
A capitalist system is already in place, and a truly Marxist system has NEVER been tried. So.....

By pure capitalist system he means no government regulation. I'm not quite sure that that's true; I think the Puritans acheived it (in their provinces) which of course allowed them to thrive.

Ok, maybe i'm just lost, maybe i need some sleep, but i fail to see the relevance, no offence meant. Government regulation exists to make sure that the greedy think before they break the rules, to make sure they can get away with it and fool the poor before they notice. Corporate crime for example. The richest businesses get away with flouting health and safety rules, and unknown amounts of people get away with fiddling the books so that they get a few extra thousand.

But the crimes that are really cracked down upon are those involving the poorest. Anyone preaching against the state? If they're poor, they're likely to be drunk. So they get locked up for being drunk and disorderly, or just ignored by the people as being another messed up "wino" as you say in the USA. People who see the truth of the matter are often so hurt by it that mere physical goods cannot help, they need something to insulate the brain from thinking. These materials are made available in a manner so that people think they are going against the state. BUT

These "criminals" have the same values as the richest - they want money and power, achieved through violence. The exact same start as the colonists etc.
Yet these criminals are bad people for imitating the state?

Its society that needs fixing, not some criminals removing.

At 4/18/05 06:49 PM, Elfer wrote:

At 4/18/05 06:42 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: How can we change society's attitude without drastically changing society and removing the rich?

To help wider society the greediest must be made examples of in some way, tho i'm not sure yet of what that best way is.

It needs to be achieved by GRADUALLY changing society. Whenever there's a revolution, there's always a large group that harbours resentment, and that can fuck a lot of things up.

Yes, that group are the capitalists, and they should adapt or die.

Since socialism is supposed to be about working for the good of everyone, why do you find it such a bad idea to work for the good of people in the future, rather than the present?

I find it hard to believe equality can ever be achieved by following the system. I believe that the system will carrot and stick people into even tighter cages.

The threat of terrorism for example, is used to encourage oppressive laws and giving america the right to take over a country, by military and cultural invasion. Sure there was some rank shit goin on there, but to wade in, kill people and enforce capitalist beliefs even more is only of benefit to the system. The iraqi's will see not much change, more chaos if anything, and America feels the consequences. These are this:
a) Eastern people will like america less, so attacks will increase on usa people, maybe soil. So then the racial prejudice will encourage even more self-oppresive laws, such as phone tapping being made legal evidence in court. And the labelling of anyone who disagrees with the state as being a terrorist or unpatriotic loser will ensure people conform, and keep their mouths shut.
The people are becoming dumb oxen, and the capitalists make sure it stays that way.

At 4/15/05 03:08 PM, BigLundi wrote:

At 4/13/05 05:50 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

At 4/13/05 05:18 PM, BigLundi wrote:
probably, hmmm, i study the animals and drunken boxing and jeet kun do...would listening to music be good for any of them?

Truth be told i'm just giving my personal opinion. Discount it. :)

really? because listening to certain songs seems to have helped me on drunken boxing. maybe it's just me. according to sensai Raman, all people learn in their own ways. not one soul is limited to other people's traditions.

Sounds like a wise man. Discount my opinion, completely, i just have a big mouth when it comes to martial arts. When it comes to put up or shut up, i shut up :)

At 4/15/05 08:55 AM, The_General_Public wrote:
This is Deja Vu all over again, you're following in the exact same footsteps as the Russian communists. You need your assets...you don't want them , you're selflessly keeping your material posessions for the good of the people.

Sorry, the Russian serfs bought it, we won't

No, you've just bought into the illusion of meritocracy and fairness, when we will never see the people that truly run the world. The people that have absolute control over EVERY resource, and play games with the minds of men.

Russia was never communist, it was a dictatorship, as is blatantly provable by the hero worship of the great nonce stalin. Indeed, it is a cunning way to get into power and riches, by fooling the people.

There are similarities between this fake communism and capitalism :

a) A dictator with power, some kind of charm and nuclear weapons
b) The false belief, enforced that this was for everyones own good: in modern capitalism this is brainwashing through teachings by parents, who fell in the same trap, education by schools (brainwashing) and the media (brain washing)

In fake communism, it was the above, plus obvious fear of the secret police.

c) The false belief of equality, again enforced by the above measures. In capitalism this is the false belief of equality of opportunity. Sure, you can get rich and get a pimpin ride and mansion, as a poor man, but the odds of getting complete political power like a crazy man like bush, or whoever owns him?

In fake communism, it was the false belief that the revolution had finally happened, and that mankind was going to become a better race.

d) Hero worship of the glorious leader, who will defend them from outside terrors.
In capitalist western society, it is a fear of muslim extremists we are defended from.
In capitalist eastern society, it is the fear of corruption of moral values by the westerners they fight against.

In fake communism, it is the fight against external capitalism to distract from the greed within. A noble goal, ruthlessly manipulated by the greedy.

You telling me capitalism manipulates no one, and that the rich dont become richer, whilst the poor become poorer? If so, you really are a dumb prick and should get the fuck out of your arrogant country, and be humbled by the rest of the world. See the conditions the people that make your shoes, clothes, dig your precious stones and oil work in.

"Er what my shit comes from USA all the way, baby!"

No. Even if its made there, from scratch, the very foundation of the country was built on slave labour. There is something owed by every rich person, to every poor person who's ancestors slaved to build your country.. It has never been paid, ever.

There is a moral debt to help those poorer than you. Only you dont listen or care, cos i'm a crrrrrrrrazy communist. Fuck off or the magic beans will get you. Said the tree.
(/sarcasm)

At 4/18/05 07:15 PM, Elfer wrote:
Again, this is probably a "rare breed" situation as you mentioned earlier, but this is why I think that socialism can be attained through gradually changing society rather than by bloody revolution.

Only bloody revolution can bring

a) instant removal of the rich from their means of owning the world
b) control of the state apparatus of education, media, police and military, etc.

To remove the greed and selfish behaviours, these must be controlled. Either by bloody violent mess, or by forcing the rich to give concessions. Since concessions are only given when the working class are provoked, it shows there needs to be action.

I am far more extreme, perhaps i discredit your milder theory by my existence and association with socialism, but we are on the same side in the overall picture, if not the methods.

At 4/17/05 02:32 AM, JusticeofSarcasm wrote: There is no pure capitialist market, and there is no or has never been a pure marxist eoconmy. The reason, neither of these is possible to achieve in practice. So like it or not capitalism is here to say. So you have two choices, learn to live with it or

Define "pure capitalist" and yes, there has never been ANY Marxist economy.
A capitalist system is already in place, and a truly Marxist system has NEVER been tried. So.....

At 4/16/05 10:09 PM, Rooster349 wrote:

At 4/13/05 05:29 PM, ghost_dance wrote: Exactly, it's not a fluke that Cuba has a ratio of one doctor for every 165 people, and that in the states it's 1 doctor for every 1150 person.

Doctors are appointed by the Cuban government whether they want to or not.

Socialism is misery through equality.

Capitalism is murder through famine, and by causing apathy in those who have power to change it all.

At 4/16/05 02:20 PM, Elfer wrote: Again, as I've said before, greed can be removed, but it has to be done by a change in society's attitude, not through revolution.

You can't remove a person's capatalist beliefs with a knife.

How can we change society's attitude without drastically changing society and removing the rich?

To help wider society the greediest must be made examples of in some way, tho i'm not sure yet of what that best way is.

At 4/16/05 01:16 PM, Maus wrote:

At 4/16/05 01:08 PM, SpamWarrior wrote: ketamine, and acid <----- These are BAD hallucenogenics, because they are made by man.

Having done both of those extensively, I'll have to say this:

They have potential to mess with peoples heads. I have a friend who's done acid twice and its damaged him a little i feel. Maybe i'm just selfish in wanting him to have his old personality. I do not talk of addiction, if you became addicted to these and lived on your own you would definitely die within 2 years, at maximum limits. I talk about the damage you can get from having it once. The sleepless sweaty nights, where you cannot remove the most horrible thing from your life, no matter how you look at it, you dont know how to look at it. I have a massive distrust of anything man made.

Do you know how acid is made? Its made from a fungus, that if you eat it, can be lethal. That scares the shit out of me. I've never heard of anyone dying from the effects of eating cannabis, apart from the odd choking which can happen with any food.

I have heard of 4 people i know who've had good times on ketamine, but i've heard countless stories of people going under in clubs and seeing giant spiders etc.

I've never been scared by anything on shrooms, except the thought of talking to people who are not on them at the time.

They aren't inherently bad. It's people abusing them that is bad.

I agree for some things and not for others. I've heard of more people having a permanent effect on them from having acid, datura and ketamine a few times than a couple spliffs every weekend.

What about beer, wine, and liquor? All man-made.

Having nearly broken my liver, i have to say these are pretty bad. Drinking and tobacco smoking are bigger killers than people dying from hallucinogens, directly or indirectly.