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So is communism, communism in practice is used in bad ways also, yet you just can't seem to understand that, do you?

You cant seem to understand, communism has never happened, and that we should not just give up on the next step. Capitalism WILL be the end of us if over prolonged.

Communism is not flawed.

Yes it is when it is implentmented in real life.

See above.

There are no flaws with wanting people to live, have a better standard of life overall.

Who will have the better standard of life, those uneducated people living in the ghettos of North America who live, not on their own hard work, but on pension which is paid for the people, rich and moderately poor. So your idea is to rob from the people who do work, and give to the lazy bastards who are living in the slums shooting up crack.....

No. In a communist society, same as this, laziness = theft from the people. The plan is to take the RESOURCES from the richest, and use them more efficiently for the human race, instead of burning everything for petty consumer reasons, oil could be used to fuel more space research.

When the oil runs out, people WILL cry, "why didnt we use it more efficiently, instead of using it to run our consumer culture"

Another point. The capitalist system makes people turn to drugs, a lot of time because they think they are crazy and depressed, so drugs are a good escape for a short time.
Some people are also just drugheads, who want to be lazy. But its just easier to categorize everyone, and apply a uniform solution, isnt it?

The only thing you object to is the possibility of you having less than you have now. This is selfishness, bred into people by capitalism

You're right I want more then what I have, but I certinly want the knowledge and pride of knowing that it was me, myself, and I who did the work without the government giving me hand outs from other people who have worked their ass off to earn what they have.

Yes? You think communists = lazy? These same communists who plan a bloody revolution, are lazy? \Face it, you're just a selfish prick who prefers consumer culture to the idea of good people living.

Again, as for bloody revolution, it will only be bloody because the greedy do not want to share.

No, it will be bloody because people like you will try to take what isn't theirs.

Isnt ours? We as the working class built it with sweat and blood, whilst the fat kings sat round and did fuck all, apart from "protect" us from the other fat kings.

All it ever has been is a giant protection scam.

Theres giving lazy people shit for free, and there is communism. They are completely different things.

What the hell are you talking about, they are exactly the same thing

Fuck you ignorant prick. Dont even look at me.

Capitalism rewards laziness, as if people try to change the situation they get punished.

What? Capitalism rewards hard work, not laziness, if you work your ass off, you will get more money, which you can use to make more money by hoping you get lucky on the market or gambling or you can use the money to own more material things.

Whoop de fucking do. You fail to see my meaning, and by your attitude did not even try. Fuck off moron.

Also, capitalism rewards crime. Is that a good thing? "what splutter splutter but how"

Crime is hard work. First you have to break free of the values that prevent you from having criminal thoughts, then think of criminal acts, then act upon them. Sure, its easier to steal from someone who's slaved all week for their rent money, but its just imitation of what the big boys do to the smaller kids. And these big boys are BIG, they run the planet.

They act like the mafia, yet you defend them. I find that strange and compelling.

This leads to mental laziness, leading to a grim acceptance of the grim world. Just because it is accepted, does not mean it is correct.

In communism, there is no way you can change the world because you will never have the resources to do it, in capitalism, you have that chance

WTF? what kind of bullshit is this?

"under communism there wont be enough resources to change the world"
YET EVEN THOUGH THE RESOURCES ARE USED FASTER BY CAPITALISM AND CONSUMER CULTURE?

how can capitalism have more resources, when the world geologically would not have changed? The only way thered be less resources would be, if say, the capitalists acted like Saddam Hussein and torched the oil fields in a very petty, immature way. "if i cant have it no one else will", or to stretch the analogy, nuked the world because their way of life was coming to an end, and they couldnt accept being beaten.

Capitalism gives no chance to change people for the better, only technology. Only by crushing individual greed, removing desire for physical goods will we advance to the next step.

Capitalism encourages individual greed, so encourages crime, so encourages the dumb people to like the police. When that fails, extreme tactics are used to bring the people together behind their puppets of leaders. For example, war is a classic way to unite a people against an outside influence.

At 5/10/05 03:57 PM, commanderkai wrote:

At 5/10/05 11:09 AM, SpamWarrior wrote:

the owners dont care, but of course, its always the peoples fault that the big companies break the rules they set for safety standards.

Yep, it's the workers' fault for not listening to the rules, if they tell you to wear a welding mask and you don't, it is your fault. They set the safety standards to save money on insurance and lawsuits, if the workers don't listen to these rules which are set to keep the workers healthy and the owners wealthy, I wouldn't feel pity if they were fired or dead because of their stupidity. If they were listening to the rules and still got injured, then they are entitled to some cash for their losses.

How about, companies dont give their workers a welding mask, and they cannot afford to buy one with kids to feed? USA companies will not be directly accountable, it'll just be convenient that the sub contractors are so cheap....

Yes, i can justufy violence, as violence will only occur in the change from capitalism to communism if the capitalists try to hold onto their material goods at the expenses of the world.

No you can't, because you wouldn't be any better then those capitalists you hate.

I would. Because the murder of people through apathy would cease after the revolution.

The worlds resources should be going into saving the planet, and/or finding ways off it,

No, going into space is a capitalist ideal, if we can get to Mars and other planets and moons, we would have massive amounts of resources to exploit

Bullshit. Its a human ideal. Find a way off this rock before it gets nuked to pieces, hit by an asteroid, or just runs out of resources. You cant steal that idea and say its capitalist only. Well, you can and you just prove my point that capitalists steal and then exploit whatever they steal.

whereas mere shitty objects like old bottles of wine sell for hundreds of thousands of pounds.

And, it's called supply and demand, this is basic stuff from school....

Yes? Can a bottle of wine be worth more than giving that money to help save peoples lives?

Sure capitalism promoted some technological advancement, but it was for the overall gain of the rich, who have priority to the best things over everyone else, many of whom who have put no major toil in to contribute.

Except with the possiblity of those scientists and inventors investing millions of dollars of money and resources from their own pocket, as well as all the time they spent....yes, that must have been a walk in the park for them, no toil at all.

They had rich sponsors, who called first dibs on the product and wanted the rights to it. Money is nothing, it is the resources that are important. Almost anyone that had time for science came from a rich, educated background, or were of a noble bloodline, or connected. It is more open now, but only because it suits the system for it to be this way.

You seem to imply that technological progress is impossible under communism, and i fail to see why.

Name me all those inventions under communism which were better then their Western counterpart.....

There have been no inventions under communism, since communism has never existed as a form of government.

Oh, and AK-47, if you still think the ussr was communist. Works better in shitty conditions than most of todays hi tech guns. ie, can work even if its full of sand, sludge, etc.

Regarding the computer i use, i personally have not contributed to it, I refuse to feed the capitalist machine. I'm attempting to exploit what i have available, the same way as the capitalist exploits objects and people.

So you and the capitalist are doing EXACTLY the same thing, exploiting resources and people so you can further your cause. You exploit the "horrible working conditions of the working class" to justify a revolution while the capitalist exploits the talents of other people to further his or her cause.

Yes, whereas i'm trying to help the workers, where the capitalist seeks to help themselves. And no, not EXACTLY the same thing. I am not oppressing the people, so much that they do not even know the extent of the exploitation.

Anyway, regardless of your moronic bullshit, communism is NOT evil

Of course not, we should let everybody suffer equally under communism instead of letting a smaller amount of people to suffer under capitalism.

Wheres the suffering? Theres enough food and resources to feed the world as it is today,

Depending, what's everyone's ration size, will they get the variety of food that they should be eating everyday etc....

I cannot quote statistics, to base any theory on statistics that the machine generates is sheer idiocy. There is enough munch, if the fat americans didnt eat it all.

To be more practical, those that work harder and are bigger people will get the most food. "oooh but thats a capitalist idea" no, its just a practical idea, since those people would not be healthy on the amount of food that would suit a smaller person with a lesser appetite.

Cars cause deaths every day, should we get rid of cars? Or how about the chair, do you know how many people suffer in bar fights when these evil devices are thrown? Capitalism, might have it's flaws, but it seems that it is, by far, the most successful in real life.

Yes, because it uses subterfuge and violence to uphold its ideals. Cars are not social policy, tho they are a part of it. A car is an inanimate object, that can be used in bad ways by people.

Money, and the market are inaminate objects, yet you are willing to ban these, it's not money's fault that some have more of it then others due to the market and free trade, yet you want to ban these

Money is used as part of the system. Money is not the problem, its what is hidden behind its shiny exterior.

Power. Money = power. The more you have, the bigger army you can raise to defend yourself, the more thugs you can have threatening the workers if they want to strike.

Capitalism IS used in bad ways by people. It is best regarded as an entity bent on self preservation at the expense of human life.

At 5/10/05 01:29 PM, Erkie wrote: Not at all, creativity comes in all kinds of forms, and I encourage any artist to submit to more then one genre. I've submitted to several genres, but I've got a style that connects it all, and that's how it works with everyone else.

SWEET! Its not finished yet, should be up in a week or two (got exams) :(

I have a track i'm currently working on, and i feel its something fresh, a bit different, yet not as randomly creative as misc. Would there be repercussions if i submitted the same track under the genres i believe it crosses over?

At 5/10/05 09:39 AM, flak_gun wrote:

See - workers. And criminals like the mafia are a result of capitalist beliefs being spread, as well as part of the system. The mafia and government work to oppress the people, only the people in the government are mostly people, so they think they're doing alright.

Gist of it is this : Criminals are capitalists, same as the rest of people who work 'normal' jobs. Please dont categorise all rastas as being gangstas however. Jamaican gangsters can be a type of rastafarian, but not all rastafarians are heartless murderers, not many in fact i would reckon.

Perhaps, when it is actually their fault. You could argue that losing the fight in the first place was their fault, but since when did we believe its right to enslave people?

Enslavement? Last I check, there were no bars on my door. Last I checked, the government doesn’t tell me to work. I have choice. I believe that you’ve seen the Matrix too many times. I advice is to pay your taxes. Buy a house. Then we’ll see if you feel the same way.

No, the bars are on your mind. BTW I thought like this long before i saw the matrix, long before i'd heard of communism, i've only just realised the elaborate details recently, which observation of following things helped:

a) people are dying of famine, through no fault of their own, and they also have no power
b) the rich are rich, do not starve to death unless they go insane or ill, and they have all the power to make things better for those in a), so therefore, by non action, it is their fault.

This then leads to c) There must be some interest for someone, for this state of affairs to continue, as doubtless, people would successfully change it unless something stopped them.

This force is the capitalist machine. Those in the middle class are both everything and nothing. They seek to have some material goods, and often care for those poorer than them. They are the buffer between the richest and the poorest, and they are still working class even if they do academic jobs, because the truly rich have someone handle the business side, whilst they go about maintaining connections.

You ever hear of bilderberg? Members of government and leaders of industrys meeting together, in secret? People disappearing whilst trying to find them?

"Your're just a conspiracy nutcase, back off weirdo"

The only people who say that seem to be incapable of thinking them through. Sure, the shit about the lizards that own the world is unlikely, but still distantly possible. I dont care for that theory, i just care for the idea that the leaders will be usurped, and everyone else will benefit.

No. It is an illusion. Even if people arent dying, they are living miserable lives working for the few. One recent, and shocking display of this, is that in London at one point recently, if you worked as a cleaner (lower class) you couldnt afford to eat, or have more than a one bedroom flat. Someone getting exploited in a Democratic, Fair, European Country? Never....

I’m not living a miserable life. Are you? If you are, that’s too bad. If someone want to be a Janitor, let them be a Janitor. Who am I to get in that person’s aspirations? The person who was a janitor should have studied in school.

Funny, I thought you just said not everyone is capable for every position. Just because someone is a janitor doesn’t mean they deserve to live in shit conditions, relative to those who “own” finite resources, for example.

See - workers. And criminals like the mafia are a result of capitalist beliefs being spread, as well as part of the system. The mafia and government work to oppress the people, only the people in the government are mostly people, so they think they're doing alright.

Man, you’re totally misguided. People join mafias because they want to join mafias. Mafias are a result of people (like you for instance) who want to work above the law. These are individuals that have no respect for law and order, and community.

The mafia may think they are separate from the government, maybe they have “influence”, but they are interconnected parts of the same machine, and share the same beliefs. They do care for community, but only their own. They care for the laws that suit them, like making drugs and prostitution illegal ( two of the worlds oldest vices, and successful). Sure, some decent morals would be lost if these were made illegal, but the mafia don’t care, as long as their own aren’t doing the lowest work.

People join the mafia, as it is a pervading presence in the area, a good supply of work, excitement and money, which is hard to get if you follow hard manual labour. It is a division between those who want to get rich, following the system, at the expense of others, and those who want to get rich not following the system, at the expense of others. They have been accounted for, and so can be controlled.

They LOVE the law, it is their overt uncaring behaviour that makes people respect them. They could not exist without the law, if they did they would be just another group of pioneering capitalists, who would then make the laws.

There is a point to be made here, but you will refuse to see it, blinded by your own personal greed and filled up with beliefs that lead to evil.

Your point has yet to be proven. Next time, use a little restraint when you write. Cursing is for animals, which you are not.

My point is there for the world to see, when you open your eyes and take the locks off your brain.

I act like an animal, because my mind is free from the machine, but bogged down by the stupidity around me. I resemble any human in a cage of any description would be, if they had determination and fire in the soul.

Also, if you look down on me for using working class language, you are a snob, and when the revolution comes I hope i get to stab you in the face.

At 5/10/05 09:17 AM, Garron wrote:

At 5/9/05 10:17 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:
No, but let the workers suffer shit working conditions, machine accidents, all in seeking that extra dollar, when its human lives that are going down the pan. Since you value money and personal riches more than human lives, as a capitalist....

But you rarely hear about it. Do you trust the news to tell you everything you need to know?

Poor working conditions lead to bad media and press, which is bad for business. Do you read the papers where you come from? Do you read the BBC, the NY TIMES, the AGE, the GLOBE AND MAIL? Bad press is everywhere.

Indeed, we have entered the new age, where the youth are apathetic and pessimistic if they see through the system, and naive and uncaring, and happy if they dont. I dont read those papers, i do not care to observe the changing faces of the system. All i need to know is that it constantly changes to keep itself going.

Bad publicity does not suit the system, indeed. That is why there is little mention of the millions starving in Africa “but its their fault” no, leaders with capitalist beliefs taken to the extreme are a cause of blame, but not THE cause.

The bottom line is an employer doesn’t become a powerhouse or becomes part of the fortune 500 when their business is splattered over the front page of every newspaper across the English-speaking world. You’re bleeding heart liberalism doesn’t have a leg to stand on. With respect to the news around me, I have to believe in something – if I didn’t, I’d be a cynic like you.

Oh no, and i'm evil because i see the bad things in society. Shoot the messenger, is it?
And caring about humanity makes my objective view incorrect? I have examined both sides, and I can see no benefits in capitalism that will not

Yes. And this difference serves to divide the people. You say power corrupts? So does choice. It corrupts the unanimity of soul that we have as humans, and must strive to find. These parties appeal to selfishness, the maximum pleasure of the many whilst ignoring the wishes of a large minority. In effect politics and religion are the opium of the masses. Religion for the classic reason, that people will work hard believing that god wants them to work that way, and politics, because if people believe in a political system, they will believe the obvious targets of blame.

If you were to tell the democrats or the liberals that they appeal to selfishness, you’d be slapped across the side of the head. Again, you’re a little misguided. You’re lost in your own series of lies that you’re beginning to can’t distinguish between fiction and non-fiction.

Nah, you are lost in the maze, and its filled with your favourite things, so you dont want to leave it. Personal smears now is it? Well you're a blockheaded retard that follows the system because it suits you, and your decision means fuck all in a larger world, and you cannot face that, so you shout down those who disagree with you.

Let me bottom line it for you, capitalists are rewarded for their hard work. Socialists get government handouts. Capitalists work together to ensure that their business prospers to achieve a common good – their mutual co-existence.

Hard work? For some individuals, yes, but not everyone. The reward is for the few, not the many. It cannot be right that so much of the worlds resources are used by the richest.

What do you want? A medal?

Of course I’d like a Gold medal, so that I can sell it.

Regarding the fat argument, you could be right. But on the poverty, you are dead wrong.

I am right, rarely wrong, but this time right as usual. With respect to poverty, I’m not dead wrong- you’re wrong, as usual.

Nah, you’re just a twat who wont even consider my idea as maybe being right, whereas I have considered capitalism from every possible angle I can think of, and I still think its wrong.

Its logic, only a small number could get maximum pleasure from all the worlds resources. Thats if you seek material goods, especially to the extent americans are famed for. Theres only so many resources, and the greedy are stopping the poorest from living. The poor work or die, and the rich have to do fuck all, they can live on daddys money well enough for a good few generations. Thats it in a nutshell, to make it relevant to modern society - some of the talented poor are allowed to progress, it gives the illusion of meritocracy, whilst thousands others languish.

If only a small number of people get pleasure from the world’s resources, then that’s good for business. There becomes a reason to live and a reason to keep doing the grind. Not everyone is cut for politics, not everyone deserves to drive a Porsche, not everyone deserves to work in a factory, but the ones that are do. Those that read books, those that do their homework, and those that learn how to write will get management positions. Those that don’t, but play videogames, smoke pot, and steal from their employers will work in factories, work dead end jobs, and assert that that their disenfranchized proletariat. Frankly, its ones own fault for not being a capitalist.

Last I checked, the rich die as well (but only wearing a Prada suit or sleeping Tommy Hilfiger or Polo bed sheets). One day, I hope to own!

Indeed, not everyone is able at every role. In fact, no one yet is capable of doing everything. It is what makes us equal. The fault being that capitalism tells people that society is a meritocracy, when it is not at all, but a system for maintaining itself. Great, the rich where a prada suit? That makes you better than someone who dies with a miners hat on….. because?

At 5/10/05 01:01 AM, Sireus_Payne wrote: Okay, I haven't read through all the posts, but...look at all of the past communist and facist nations? Have any of them really been communist or facist? Communism is the complete equality of the citizens. If everyone is so equal, why does the government reap off of it? Communism is based on the suppression of human instincts. When humans are kept back, they lash out. That is the reason why every nation controlled by either of those extremists has failed.

Those instincts have been taught by capitalists, who see no need to change the beliefs, as they are benefitting most by a value system they created. Human nature is suppressed everywhere, in different ways. In dictatorships that are capitalistic (the middle east, for example) People are under religious and state law, meaning less freedom. They also have the knowledge that they are led by someone very powerful.

In the US, if you spread communist beliefs you become a loser, outcast. And since they are communist, people try arguing that they shouldnt seek wealth, without even thinking who the world wide wealth would go to, instead of where it goes now...

At 5/10/05 12:15 AM, Sol_Ryu wrote: Comunism looks good on paper but because of human nature it all falls apart.

I once heard a coment by my AP Gov. teacher that comunism would work if the entire world was one comunist mas. Then she went on about this would work because of distribution of reascorces and blah blah blah.

My question is: Is this realy posible and if so why? I had a terible teacher and would like to hear your speculation.

OUr believe of what human nature IS is told to us by the system. How? Transmission of norms and values. Education teaches us that you must try to follow the system to do well. Anyway, communism would be an improvement to the human race, as less people would die.

The blind followers of capitalism blame the poor, say it is their fault for being losers.
If people didnt put in the effort, then fair enough.

But people want to believe that the conflict between masters and slaves is over, when it is only the nature of the chains that have changed. Instead of being tied to a wall or yoke, we are attached on an extendable lead, giving us an impression of choice and free will.

Communism needs all the available resources to work properly, and if individual greed is to be removed, there can be no examples left in world society. Otherwise the latent greed will express itself as a counter revolution.

For example, Cuba is a nasty place, because it seeks the same things the capitalists wants, some of the people will want to increase their own wealth, some will genuinely want to take things from the hands of the capitalist. Cuba has little resources available compared to America for example, so trade with capitalists is necessary, meaning you have to put appropriate monetary values on your goods, and seek the best at the expense of the capitalist, leading to double standards, hypocrisy and madness.

At 5/9/05 11:31 PM, commanderkai wrote:

At 5/9/05 08:43 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:
Oh, so you can justify avarice and murder?

Irony alarm, you are the one willing to stage a bloody revolution against "the evil capitalist pigs" and you think you have some ethical right to be pissed off at capitalists when a few people die because of their policies....If you can somehow justify murder for the "betterment of the people" or some bullshit like that and justify this murder with the murder of a few workers in a factory because they weren't paying attention to the rules

FUCK YOU. Slavery still happens, the owners dont care, but of course, its always the peoples fault that the big companies break the rules they set for safety standards. Yes, i can justufy violence, as violence will only occur in the change from capitalism to communism if the capitalists try to hold onto their material goods at the expenses of the world. It is capitalists who are destroying and using the worlds resources, for such petty shit as consumer culture. The worlds resources should be going into saving the planet, and/or finding ways off it, whereas mere shitty objects like old bottles of wine sell for hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Because these are founding parts of your beliefs. If you can justify them, then you cannot cry when the revolution comes.

I think I see it around the corner.....no wait, it was a BMW, sorry

Well done, you have a nice car, that contributes to the wastage of a finite resource. I'd offer you a medal, but theres none left. You can have a nice badge instead.

Because it could be interpreted that the people are earning, what they take is through hard labour(they built everything + revolution)

They might have built everything, but they sure didn't design or invent everything,oh, where would the world be without those evil capitalists which tries to make their lives better by inventing something to benefit society....those god damn bastards

Who. Also, if they needed financial reward, it just means they were clever greedy scum. Sure capitalism promoted some technological advancement, but it was for the overall gain of the rich, who have priority to the best things over everyone else, many of whom who have put no major toil in to contribute.

You seem to imply that technological progress is impossible under communism, and i fail to see why.

An elected government is part of the scam to control the people. Doesnt matter who gets in, theres always something wrong with the party in power, so people choose the other party after the inevitable scandal.

Question, would it just be easier for those corporations which products you are using right now (unless you have somehow created a way to make products like computers out of rocks and sticks) to just take control of the government and just get rid of the problems like you instead of scamming the people with elections.

Any uprising will be crushed or sabotaged unless it is worldwide. The corporations dont own. the system owns. They are tools of the system. Regarding the computer i use, i personally have not contributed to it, I refuse to feed the capitalist machine. I'm attempting to exploit what i have available, the same way as the capitalist exploits objects and people.

Wow, power corrupts? You shit me not? What do you think capitalists have? A pillow? A pot noodle?

Power, I have to agree here, but their power is balanced with the government which is elected by the people.

Each department spends much time battling beauracracy and other departments to survive and keep a job as much as they get anything done. The people that do best get the position of leader, with 'advisers'. Whilst there may or may not be sinister individuals, the system itself is part of the exploitation.

Anyway, regardless of your moronic bullshit, communism is NOT evil

Of course not, we should let everybody suffer equally under communism instead of letting a smaller amount of people to suffer under capitalism.

Wheres the suffering? Theres enough food and resources to feed the world as it is today, but the americans have it all, the british have it all. The first world has it, through usin terrorist tactics to negotiate with the other parts of the unknowing machine.

Capitalism causes death everyday. It is uncaring about it. It is murder.

Cars cause deaths every day, should we get rid of cars? Or how about the chair, do you know how many people suffer in bar fights when these evil devices are thrown? Capitalism, might have it's flaws, but it seems that it is, by far, the most successful in real life.

Yes, because it uses subterfuge and violence to uphold its ideals. Cars are not social policy, tho they are a part of it. A car is an inanimate object, that can be used in bad ways by people.

Capitalism IS used in bad ways by people. It is best regarded as an entity bent on self preservation at the expense of human life.

Communism has never existed in a proper form, freely. It has always been controlled by the capitalist system, for its own ends.

Communism hasn't been successful in real life because it hasn't been successful in real life, you try to blame capitalism (with no proof, mind you) when you can't realize that it is communism that is flawed.

Communism is not flawed. There are no flaws with wanting people to live, have a better standard of life overall. The only thing you object to is the possibility of you having less than you have now. This is selfishness, bred into people by capitalism

Again, as for bloody revolution, it will only be bloody because the greedy do not want to share.

Theres giving lazy people shit for free, and there is communism. They are completely different things. Capitalism rewards laziness, as if people try to change the situation they get punished. This leads to mental laziness, leading to a grim acceptance of the grim world. Just because it is accepted, does not mean it is correct.

At 5/9/05 10:07 PM, CXVII wrote:

At 3/31/05 02:39 PM, Jenia wrote: Communism is not bad,but a rather good idea for a way to lead a country.
The problem with communism is that it doesn't fir humans,as it does not take human desires,feelings or wishes into consideration.
does anyone wish to agree,comment,argue?

I agree 100% Thats why other communist nations *cough*RUSSIA*cough* don't do so well. People catch on and realize that the necular engineer is getting as much as trashman joe.

*COUGH* *DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR OR READ* *COUGH SPLUTTER*

Russia was NOT communist, possibly is not, i've been neglecting my study of russia. The USSR was a dictatorship, the ideals were manipulated by stalin so he could be a greedy capitalist at the supposed heartland of communism. To call that communism is to say a fence is a nuclear warhead.

If you had the ability to be a nuclear engineer, would you be the engineer, or just be a binman?

At 3/31/05 03:04 PM, Snipe-out wrote: i think todays goverment is far 2 democratic bolox is it its crap we only get to vote on who votes 4 wat eg education minister

Democracy is a myth.

... If you live in America it isn't as democratic as you think it is. We like in a democratic republic. India is probably one of the only real true democracies out there... I still love America though.

I love the scenery, hate the beliefs. America is the biggest part of the capitalist machine. Its got the most business, most nuclear weapons, and even though its a huge melting pot of different races and cultures, you still manage to get an "us vs them" mentality regarding overseas war. Its people, vs people. Never forget that.

At 5/9/05 09:43 PM, fenrus1989 wrote: there hasn't been a communist country yet. isn't everyone equal in the communist idea. so that means that there can't be a leader because everyone wouldn't be equal. communism would only work in a utopia.

You confuse leader with your interpretation of leader. You mean leader, meaning hero worship and granting of absolute power to an individual, who could, like silvio berlusconi, implement laws banning people investigating past crimes, and thats just on a shallow level

In a communist view everyone is as necessary as everyone else. The leader is more like a large scale clerk, divvying up the resources fairly and efficiently.

Regarding it only working in a utopia, do you not think we have to MAKE a utopia, instead of waiting for someone to give it to us?

At 5/9/05 09:31 PM, Garron wrote:

At 5/9/05 08:43 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

Oh, so you can justify avarice and murder? Because these are founding parts of your beliefs. If you can justify them, then you cannot cry when the revolution comes. Because it could be interpreted that the people are earning, what they take is through hard labour(they built everything + revolution)

How do you figure that avarice and murder are pillars to my beliefs? Isn’t it part of my economic freedom to make as much as I want to make? Is that a crime? One knows that negative publicity is bad for business. How does killing people help business? The number #1 rule to business is to not kill your consumer.

No, but let the workers suffer shit working conditions, machine accidents, all in seeking that extra dollar, when its human lives that are going down the pan. Since you value money and personal riches more than human lives, as a capitalist....

But you rarely hear about it. Do you trust the news to tell you everything you need to know?

An elected government is part of the scam to control the people. Doesnt matter who gets in, theres always something wrong with the party in power, so people choose the other party after the inevitable scandal.

This argument is old. You want to have an unelected group of people run your life? Might as well just ask for a King, a Queen, or an emperor while your at it. There are differences between Liberals, Conservatives, NDPers, Democrats, Republicans, and the Labour Party. Anyone that has taken a crash course in political parties and politics know that.

Yes. And this difference serves to divide the people. You say power corrupts? So does choice. It corrupts the unanimity of soul that we have as humans, and must strive to find. These parties appeal to selfishness, the maximum pleasure of the many whilst ignoring the wishes of a large minority. In effect politics and religion are the opium of the masses. Religion for the classic reason, that people will work hard believing that god wants them to work that way, and politics, because if people believe in a political system, they will believe the obvious targets of blame.

Wow, power corrupts? You shit me not? What do you think capitalists have? A pillow? A pot noodle?

I sleep on three feather filled pillows on a double bed in a basement apartment. I am doing my master’s degree. I think I am doing good. Thanks for asking.

What do you want? A medal?

I wouldnt be too bothered, as this conversation from my point of view supports communism, and you are inevitably wrong. Wow, democracy. The same logic that lets children choose sweeties over vegetables.

Wrong buddy. The parents haven’t raised their children right. A fat person is fat because HE/SHE wants to be fat. They were the one that put the hamburger into their mouth, not the government. It’s not the government’s fault that one is fat, nor is it the government’s fault that one is poor. It’s the person’s responsibility to take care of oneself. If you're going to say they couldn't afford the 'healthy food,' come on man, the person should have studied in school instead of played video games OR have sex OR smoke drugs.

Regarding the fat argument, you could be right. But on the poverty, you are dead wrong.

Its logic, only a small number could get maximum pleasure from all the worlds resources. Thats if you seek material goods, especially to the extent americans are famed for. Theres only so many resources, and the greedy are stopping the poorest from living. The poor work or die, and the rich have to do fuck all, they can live on daddys money well enough for a good few generations. Thats it in a nutshell, to make it relevant to modern society - some of the talented poor are allowed to progress, it gives the illusion of meritocracy, whilst thousands others languish.

People have to stop blaming themselves for their misery. When will people start own up to their mistakes?

Perhaps, when it is actually their fault. You could argue that losing the fight in the first place was their fault, but since when did we believe its right to enslave people?

Anyway, regardless of your moronic bullshit, communism is NOT evil
Capitalism causes death everyday. It is uncaring about it. It is murder.
Communism has never existed in a proper form, freely. It has always been controlled by the capitalist system, for its own ends.

Death is a result of individuals that sustain power by any means necessary. Negative publicity is not good for business. There are checks and balances in the free-market that prevent people from dying.

No. It is an illusion. Even if people arent dying, they are living miserable lives working for the few. One recent, and shocking display of this, is that in London at one point recently, if you worked as a cleaner (lower class) you couldnt afford to eat, or have more than a one bedroom flat. Someone getting exploited in a Democratic, Fair, European Country? Never....

See - workers. And criminals like the mafia are a result of capitalist beliefs being spread, as well as part of the system. The mafia and government work to oppress the people, only the people in the government are mostly people, so they think they're doing alright.

Communism has never existed in proper form and never will because people are their biggest

Very Sincerely

Fuck off.

Academics refrain from cursing, as they find other useful and constructive ways to exercise their genius.

There is a point to be made here, but you will refuse to see it, blinded by your own personal greed and filled up with beliefs that lead to evil.

At 5/9/05 09:02 PM, Garron wrote:

At 5/9/05 08:37 PM, SpamWarrior wrote:

At 5/9/05 07:50 PM, Garron wrote:

LOADS OF PROPAGANDA.

I bet you learnt that word from a marxist.

Wow. I bet you learned your grasp of the english language from marxists, too.

As if communism is that petty, regarding the underwear, and under communism, laziness = theft from humanity. All of you capitalists in your bubble dont know or care about the cost in human suffering "better them than me"

Communism is that petty. Look at Tiananmen Square 1989 where students fought for democracy, freedom, and liberty. Communism is not compassionate, it's oppressive. Your moral high ground doesn't work with laziness, synonymous with communism. Communism is a political system will reward someone for doing nothing.

Yes, because it was an evil dictatorship perpetrated by the capitalist machine, to discredit communism.

If you want to live in a Communist country, get out of the United States. Go live in China. You talk about human suffering - do you think the peasants in China live in perfect harmony? You think the political leaders at the top think about the peasant down below?

Fuck off you arrogant prick. I am not in the USA.
There is no true communist place, and there has not been in industrialised society.

I contribute to associations that include "Mother Against Drunk Driving," "The Heart and Stroke Foundation," and "the Canadian Blood Services." I care. I look out for the little guys, and I'm a capitalist. It's human nature to care, which I do. No one wants to do business with a cold heartless bastard - it's why I support Microsoft and Bill Gates - the man that plans to die poor! Talk about the greatest philanthropists alive!

So? Just cos you give to charity means you care? You just give to charity because it suits you. If you look out for the little guys, you have some socialist beliefs.

End your life, infinitely stupid tool of evil. Capitalism rewards laziness, murder, apathy. Communism rewards the human race.

Wow. Look at what you have resorted to - killing me. What sort of example do you want to set? How are comments like that constructive? Not once have I said something like that to you and socialists. Capitalism makes room socialism and compassion, but not the other way around.

Nah, i'm telling you to kill yourself because you are evil. Constructive? Bigger picture is the problem here i see. IF people who's lives makes others miserable, killed themselves, there'd be a whole lot more happiness and productvity to go round overall.

How so? Capitalism - the rich look after their own - the rich. Those born into riches will never need fear dying of starvation, whilst hundreds die of famine every day.
Murder - the rich oppress the poor, they are slaves in the poorest of countries, under a dictatorship.
Apathy - it rewards the filth like you who have no care for people in other countries.

Explain how capitalism rewards laziness, contributes to murder, and apathy. Explain how communism rewards the human race. Your explanations need further illustration.

FURTHER? Ok, since you lack the appropriate tools. Capitalism IS murder. Its probably where it all began, one man killed another for his woman, his treasures.

Capitalism throughout history - an essay for those that cannot be arsed to think about the other point of view, and just take the views they are given:
Ancient society, (as it is painted) Religion and government combined, massive power, those that disagree with that system get punished, often to death, for heresy, or treason, or some kind of crime that amounts to both.
Feudal Society - some separation of religion and state. A MONARCH has the most wealth, and leads not much but a life of leisure, they are the figurehead, the symbol of the country. The peasants get some land to work, get to keep some of the vegetables. So much for earning what you deserve. Oh wait, some other bugger with a bigger sword had a claim to the land, so its all fair.

Both these are characterised by division of wealth, and labour. Those that do the most important work, without which NO ONE would survive, (crop growing, farming) get the worst pay.

Modern society. - we are given the illusion of choice, and also these general views: there are things wrong with the world, it must be something the other people did.

Many examples of this being used to drive conflict, religious, class, race.

In modern society people are divided from each other, and their means to act go in the following ways - trust the government, or trust those who dont trust. If you trust the first then you are a good lackey of the system, yet you are still divided from other humans with different ideas. If you follow the others, you are a paranoid communist terrorist, who is lazy and wants the same for nothing. You will get beaten down by the system so people learn not to bother. The recent way of doing this is to discredit communism, by letting an image of it happen then fucking it up, whilst say, letting people spread the theory. Since they let us, there is no secrecy, and we are easily tracked, united under the flagpole of being communist. They will do nothing, as to dispose of us would spread rumour, whereas to let the theory continue lets it discredit itself in the weak-minded.

Differences between people are perpetuated by the machine, which suits people be divided, so that they blame others in the rat race for the problems,without thinking who's got the money, the power, and drew out the track. This is related to the apathy, tho you misconstrued my view. Apathy is a tool of the capitalist system, it fits nicely with the current postmodernist view that says all is shit, fuck it, forget about it.
Apathy also causes death. The rich dont care that people died working for them in terrible conditions, they just worry that they might lose money.
The truly richest have no need for money in itself but for the power to control others with it.

Go to hell.

What a marvellous way to spawn and generate further intellectual and academic debate. Perhaps its why you're where you are on the socio-economic ladder and I am not.

My what a wonderful way to appeal to the upper class, by using polysyllabic words to try beat down someone who speaks in the colloquial tongue of the working class.

Prick.

At 5/9/05 08:09 PM, Garron wrote:

At 3/31/05 03:46 PM, LordGoulden wrote: In an ideal world Communism would be the perfect way to run the world.... Yet of course we don't live in an Ideal world... do we...

Even most countries claiming to be communist are really just socialist... and most of them are corrupt... Carl Marx had a good Idea but it only works in theory.

KARL MARX had a bad theory. Good ideas work NOT ones that have failed.

Oh, so you can justify avarice and murder? Because these are founding parts of your beliefs. If you can justify them, then you cannot cry when the revolution comes. Because it could be interpreted that the people are earning, what they take is through hard labour(they built everything + revolution)

Moreover, the reasons why socialist countries fail is because the leaders want to maintain and sustain their power. Until a better system than what exists in the United States, Britain, Canada, France, and other first world nations, we will have to cope with what we have right now. An elected government where free elections takes place is better an a socialist one.

An elected government is part of the scam to control the people. Doesnt matter who gets in, theres always something wrong with the party in power, so people choose the other party after the inevitable scandal.

Perpetuating an existence or any such clone to socialism is WRONG because people are at the helm. Power corrupts. Free elections allows the people to knock off any political party from leadership - i.e. The Democrats in the federal election of 2000 in the United States, the Progressive Conservatives in the federal election of 1993 in Canada, and the Consevatives in the federal election of 1997 in Britain.

Wow, power corrupts? You shit me not? What do you think capitalists have? A pillow? A pot noodle?

The only reason why you are able to talk freely about this topic is that democracy allows for it. If this was a communist country that didn't like your stream of thought, someone would have, lets say, neutralized a potential threat.

I wouldnt be too bothered, as this conversation from my point of view supports communism, and you are inevitably wrong. Wow, democracy. The same logic that lets children choose sweeties over vegetables.

Anyway, regardless of your moronic bullshit, communism is NOT evil
Capitalism causes death everyday. It is uncaring about it. It is murder.
Communism has never existed in a proper form, freely. It has always been controlled by the capitalist system, for its own ends.

Sincerely,

G

G

Very Sincerely

Fuck off.

At 5/9/05 07:50 PM, Garron wrote:

LOADS OF PROPAGANDA.

At 3/31/05 02:39 PM, Jenia wrote: Communism is not bad,but a rather good idea for a way to lead a country.
The problem with communism is that it doesn't fir humans,as it does not take human desires,feelings or wishes into consideration.
does anyone wish to agree,comment,argue?

WRONG. ALL WRONG. ALL WRONG.

COMMUNISM is not good for many reasons. Here is one, one does not have property rights. Without property rights, the government has the RIGHT to take whatever is yours. If you have underwear that is better than someone else, a communist government has the right to TAKE it. How would like it if George Bush took your computer and gave it some lowlife that was too lazy to earn one for himself?

As if communism is that petty, regarding the underwear, and under communism, laziness = theft from humanity. All of you capitalists in your bubble dont know or care about the cost in human suffering "better them than me"

End this conversation. Stop justifying communism and it's glory. It is an abusrd system that rewards laziness. Economic freedom, political freedom, freedom of trade, unfettered competititon, and freedom of association is the way to go.

End your life, infinitely stupid tool of evil. Capitalism rewards laziness, murder, apathy. Communism rewards the human race.

How so? Capitalism - the rich look after their own - the rich. Those born into riches will never need fear dying of starvation, whilst hundreds die of famine every day.
Murder - the rich oppress the poor, they are slaves in the poorest of countries, under a dictatorship.
Apathy - it rewards the filth like you who have no care for people in other countries.

Go to hell.

At 5/9/05 07:17 PM, fenrus1989 wrote: no communism doesnt work. There's no incentive to work harder. Whats the point to work harder when you won't advance in class or get paid more.

OI MORON DO YOU WANT TO CLEAN BINS ALL YOUR LIFE? OR DO YOU WANT TRAINING IN A MORE ACADEMIC JOB?

At 3/31/05 05:53 PM, ReaganOwns wrote:

At 3/31/05 02:39 PM, Jenia wrote: The problem with communism is that it doesn't fir humans,as it does not take human desires,feelings or wishes into consideration.

Yeah, that's a rather serious problem, don't you think?

I don't mind communism as long as it's not here. I'd like to be rich before I die.

So you dont mind that you, and other's like you, who strive for wealth CAUSES misery for countless others?
Dont cry when the hammer and sickle break your face then.

bah i might get fruity loops then. I've heard cakewalk is a ton of shizzle compared to anything else. Thing is i just want a synthesiser i can play with to get the tones from it, so i can sequence in acid.

Are the synths that come with fruity loops any good? I've no idea who uses any of them, tho i suspect RageIV will probably have used them at some point.

Might just get cakewalk. Or maybe i'll just use all the free samples i can find on the net...

Nice one Erkie, but you missed out

Having to review when giving a zero vote and say why.

Pro's - Less zero votes as less nobheads would have the time to zero vote everyone they dont like, and those who posted shite just to spite someone and do one would get banned.

Cons - Requires time from NG staff, who are already busy, or time from a respected artist to moderate the reviews, and if irrelevant cancel the 0 score, and alias accounts,

Any idea what you're meant to plug this in with? I can hear the tone difference when i use it in acid, but i have no control over it, and no interface to use, Though, there is a list of midi controllers, which i have no experience with.

So, what do i do with it? Or should i just invest in learning fruity loops for a time?

Heh, gotta love how everyone promotes their favourite progs. Audacity is the free option, dont know how good it is. Still not tried it yet.

At 5/4/05 11:38 PM, Metalholic115 wrote: True. What should happen is if the 0 voters were forced to give a review and put gibrish on it, that review should be deleted, and the vote shouldn't count. I'm fucking sick of some douchebag always lowing my scores on my songs because the fucker's bored!

One of the best ideas i've seen yet, but to implement would take work and feedback, but i dont know if NG have the staff or time, what with all the other projects they have.
The other thing is definining what gibberish is. I'd say anything thats not constructive, so that would include flat out bullshit reviews, like "this is crap". etc

The other problem being the opinion of the staff who would check the reviews. There'd have to be a respected fan or artist of the genre checking, and would they rather spend the time fixing little problems, when it could be slowing their career down? Maybe some nice people would..... I dont know.

At 5/4/05 09:21 AM, -Juggernaut- wrote: I'm getting a copy of Reason 2.5. Hopefully it will give me what I want...

I've not a clue what thats like for mastering, but i know its an in depth programme, so there should be at least something you can do, if not do it perfectly.

Regarding your tracks, is there any tracks in particular that are off limits?

I'm particularly after clean instrumental samples, with no drums in the background, no offence intended to your drummer, i've not even heard your work yet, but i'm assuming no breakbeats, as many bands dont use them.

Regarding remixing, if you're properly serious about it, i recommend getting Acid Pro.
If you want advice, i'd say, mix opposites and see what you get. Mixing similars normally leads to the track sounding dead in my opinion. By opposites i mean tracks with long chords and short chords. Its the best i can explain it, tho theres more too it than that.

At 5/3/05 09:23 PM, Elliair wrote: Yep, Audacity is free. Cool Edit Pro is good, too, but it costs a lot, since now it has been bought by Adobe and turned into "Adobe Audition".

Hmm i've heard good things about cool edit pro, since i've heard adobe havent done much to it, i recommend buying one of the older versions ie whilst it was still cool edit pro, if you can find it.

HollywoodSound, could you please inform me of what the major differences are between using hardware, that might have a software interface, or may not, and software that runs on pc hardware. Since the tracks have been recorded, theres no exterior noise going to be added onto the track. The only obvious thing i can think of is that a professional could get an album done in a week, it may take me 2, depends on how dirty the tracks are.

Perhaps i'm wrong about what mastering is, could you please tell me what it is?

Wavelab, acid pro if you know someone with a copy that you can use, they're a little overpriced for what you want otherwise. Is audacity free? Only i might have to get it to play with it.

At 5/3/05 05:47 PM, Erkie wrote: Long post and well said, although you don't have to sound entirely passive agressive, but it's an honest thing. I believe on my part saying "Remix" was incorrect, as it applied to Chronamut who is very creative.

Its ok, i just go nuts when people try to classify themselves, and tell people that their way of making music is superior to any one elses. But since i'd go mad if i got offended by everyone, i'll just laugh, and not rant, and just make music to prove the point, instead of using written word :)

dammit i apologise again chronamut. I'd written that reply to you before i saw that you had written. (BTW person who banned me for posting "something that could have been done personally" this is about defending my reputation as "not that bad a nobhead".