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At 9/20/04 09:06 AM, silencedintruder wrote:

At 9/19/04 09:35 PM, Slewfoot wrote:

At 9/19/04 08:28 PM, silencedintruder wrote: listen dumbass i know the ban has nothing to do with full autos. but I can purchase a full auto HK MP5-K with a AWC silencer 50 round clip filled with armor piercing bullets

You haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about. Do you know what an "Armor piercinf bullet" is??? It's steel-core ammo, and it's commonly available by the gazillions. Why don't you go purchase your HK and leave the intelligent thinking to people who are qualified??

And it sucks that your level of maturity is lower than my five year old grandson while you pretend to be something your not.

yes i do, i didnt say that you need a permit to buy those bullets so stop jumping to conclusion you punk bitch,

Now, who looks like a raving lunatic??? Your beginning to make yourself look bad, wait, you allready HAVE made yourself look, well, like a lunatic. Let's try to stay calm and stay focused on the topic.

im talking about that some dildos keep saying that "its sooooooo hard to own a full auto and silencers, the permit is hard to obtain" SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

Again, please remember to take your meds before posting.

YOu people have no clue what you are talking about! Im been there done that, have you? NO! I have the approval from the BATF and a FFL so please stop posting false information like its the truth! Its not a "for certain people only" approval, so man ill say it again SHUT the FUCK UP you dumb bitches! jesus

So, here is the conclusion I have drawn. Certain members of the populace, namely, those who have a hard time finding descriptive language other than vulgarity, can obtain a permit to purchase a fully-automatic weapon. Is the cursing and screaming required also? Or can any loosely-arranged individual obtain such a permit? Please fill me in on the details.

Ok, I'm starting a tax-exempt 527 group called "Assault Weapon Owners for Kerry". Anyone with me???

At 9/19/04 08:28 PM, silencedintruder wrote: listen dumbass i know the ban has nothing to do with full autos. but I can purchase a full auto HK MP5-K with a AWC silencer 50 round clip filled with armor piercing bullets

You haven't the slightest clue what you are talking about. Do you know what an "Armor piercinf bullet" is??? It's steel-core ammo, and it's commonly available by the gazillions. Why don't you go purchase your HK and leave the intelligent thinking to people who are qualified??

and an internal laser aim, maybe you people dont live in the right state HA HA HA! one more thing the permit required for purchase of such items is easily obtained by any body who is 21 and older has no felonies and no history of violence charges, im not going to tell you entire peocess, because maybe its good that i know how to buy any firearms and acessories legaly and you dont! sucks to be you!

And it sucks that your level of maturity is lower than my five year old grandson while you pretend to be something your not.

At 9/18/04 11:59 PM, silencedintruder wrote: it doesnt matter what any of you people say because the fact is that people like me can purchase silencers, full auto uzis, 50 round clips, armor piecring bullets and any thing else we want to buy, so get over it ant-gun people, you lose we have always won. end of argument.

I seriously doubt you have the required licenses' to own the above-mentioned hardware. Why do you continue to fan the flames that feed the minds of the ignorant? Full-auto's have been out lawed since 1934. Yes, you CAN aplly for a permit to own one, but then someone who brags about it like you is too stupid to fill out the paperwork to begin with.

At 9/18/04 04:56 PM, Rash_hashar wrote: I am often astonished by the amount of ignorance displayed on both sides of this argument.

I am just as appalled by your ignorance on this issue.

My local paper ran some letters in the editorials about the ban. One letter said that the only reason the Japanese didn't attack America was because citizens owned firearms. ...not only did the Japanese attack America, they actually attacked a military base. I just wanted to point out that a lot of people that own guns probably should earn their GED before they're allowed to own them.

The article was obviously referring to the Americam MAINLAND. The Japanese attached in ISLAND> Please study your geography.

Guns in general have a purpose. There's no reason to take all guns away from people.

Reason or not, the 2ns amendment of the constitution gives us the right to own guns, no matter what your opinion is on so-called "assault" weapons.

Assault weapons, though, have no purpose. They are refined instruments designed to kill people. I don't feel comfortable with any civilians owning these, as firing them at anything but a target will result in death.

Mr. hasher an assault weapon is a selective fire automatic weapon. As pointed out by me and several others, automatic waepons are illegal, you cannot buy them, period. Get a clue so we can have an intelligent debate. I don't feel confortable until you do.

Earlier in this thread it was brought up that assault weapons are fun. Damnit, these are not toys. They are weapons, the only thing they are able to do are take things apart.

But, fun weapon-toys they they are indeed, you should try it.

I have never owned a gun. I have also never been murdered, raped, or oppressed by a dictator. Never have I wanted to be carrying an assault weapon with me.

Well then, by all means, please do not own one.

At 9/18/04 12:24 AM, witeshark wrote: What was the point of a ban on auto fire weapons if it expires for Christ's sake? People in general don't need full auto fire! Oh. And where the hell is Spookshow with all this? Hehehe

Listen carefully, please. Full auto firearms were NOT banned by the '94 gun-grab that just expired. THEY WERE ALLREADY BANNED and have been since 1934. The 94' gun-grab banned certain COSMETIC features. THERE ARE NO FULL AUTO WEAPONS BEING SOLD TODAY to citizens at large. With a few exceptions, you are not allowed to own a full auto weaon.

At 9/14/04 11:31 PM, Redwrath wrote:

At 9/14/04 12:28 AM, Er_HeiBt----- wrote: Redwrath, its not our fault that you and your people are stupid. Just because they are, it does not imply that everyone else is. A gun wont kill anyone unless a jackass gets their hands on it. Get the picture?

I don't understand where you get the idea that I am stupid. People smart enough to know what can happen with guns don't buy them.

People who are smart enough to know that cars can kill don't buy them....oops, guess that leaves you out.

However, it is the people who "want" that gun, who think they "need" that gun that cause the most harm. Desire can be overwhelming for some people.

Yes, thos epeople who posess no self-control......now get rid of your car...cars kill.

How do you keep a "jackass" from getting a gun?

Get him out of his car.....

Stop allowing the morons from carrying them around everywhere they go. At the max, guns should be used for home protection.

At the max, cars should be used to cart your sill ass off to Canada......

At 9/14/04 12:59 PM, ae007cowboy wrote: I read some of these posts and laugh a bit, but I do think both sides have valid points. I believe that a majority of crimes committed with a gun are usually done with an unregistered or illegally owned weapon. I am for gun ownership of any kind as long as they are intended to collect and/or lockup and used for occassional target practice in a designated area.

AND, they are committed by criminals who are violent repeat offenders. Lets keep the wheat seperate from the chaff. AND, there you go with the rest of the ill-informed, putting restrictions on gun ownership by declaring they need to be kept locked up and used only in a "designated" area. Whi si going to designate this area, a committe of appointed politicians looking out for my best interest??

The ban, in my case, is one to keep honest people honest BUT it really does limit the availability of these assualt weapons and keeps a tight grip on who can and who cannot get them. I train with assualt weapons and have a G36c and M4a1 and like with any gun, or any weapon for that matter, you have to be careful of how you use them and where you store them and who has access to them.

Get a clue here, cowboy. The term "assault" weapon as currently used was invented by the Brady Campaign and picked up by the liberal press. They are IDENTICAL in function to any semi-auto you care to mention. If you were such a weapon expert then I would not have to point this out to you. Any restrictions put onan "assault" weapon would apply to any semi-auto. There is already a "tight grip" on who and who can purchase a gun and it's called the instant background check.

I for one do not feel that everyone should be able to get assault weapons and that they should be purchased with very strict guidlines and case by case...

Once again, there are restrictions on who can and cannot buy an "assault", or any other firearm for that matter. See the above.

but then again, I feel like a lot of people shouldn't have drivers licenses either. I have a better chance dying in a car accident then by an attack by some idiot with a full auto rifle.

Finally, a tidbit of reason creeps through.

What I say is, Yes it is our right to have guns, whether pistol or rifle, and if you really want one, get one (be ready to spend a quite a bit of money for it). But do yourself and everyone a favor, DO NOT brag to everyone saying "I have a full auto rifle in my house" or something to that effect. MOST IMPORTANTLY...... buy a gun safe and a trigger lock, you can never be too safe with a weapon.

To those of you who do not agree with purchasing of assualt weapons, I am sorry. I find a lot of the reassons valid in what you say and I agree with them on a majority of subjects. But there are people out there who are responsible and do well at taking care of these things, but like you I am afraid of the idiot who shows off his G3 or MK23 SOCOM and either he does something stupid or someone else steals it from him and then some idiot out there has some nice equipment with the wrong intentions.

At 9/14/04 12:15 AM, abutterer wrote: i live in WY and im curious about some things:
1. what is an assult weapon license?

There is no license to buy a weapon, only the yellow form. Each individual state may have it's own rules, but since your not in California, I'm sure there are no further restrictions in Wyoming.

i went to a gun store in ID(across state lines) over christmas and while i was there decided i wanted an SKS. so i went to the store and upon showing them my drivers license and having them run my background check i purchased the firearm for $160

2. what is the difference between an SKS, an obvious "assult rifle" and a 7mm BAR hunting rifle. both are semi automatic, both have 10 round magazines

The ONLY differences are commetic in Nature.

3. why do assult rifle get called "high powered"? the round fired out of the SKS is roughly 2400fps for a 122 grain bullet where the 7mm mag is roughly 3800 fps out of a 140 grain bullet. it seems to me that the heavier, faster moving bullet would be more powerful

It is more powerful, as are most center-fire hunting rifles form the .308 on up.

4. why in the discussion of the impact of gun ownership on crime does the town of kennesaw, GA never get mentioned? in case some of you have never heard of kennesaw here is a link to some info about it
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38a75857671c.htm

5. why do so many of the people seem to think they shouldn't have control over their life, and that they would rather have the government say what they should and should not do rather than letting them decide for themselves what is best?

Because the government is in the business of peddling fear, and then selling you a bill-of-goods called a security blanket. They (the
government) tell you that you will be wrapped in their blanket of security, all nice and warm, and not have to worry about anything, they will take care of you from cradle-to-grave. This appeals to a lot of people who feel they cannot exert their own will and control their own lives. There is no security in this world, only free-men and slaves. We all die, some of us sooner than others, and a lot of us will go kicking and screaming like we were born. Live with this knowledge.

to the guy that said that crack was never legal, to the best i have been able to research in the mid to late 1800's cocaine was legal and if that was the case and crack being made from? cocaine, baking soad and water, wouldnt it stand to reason that it would have been legal even if perhaps it wasnt made?

Opium and marijuana were also legal, until the government stepped in to "save" us.

At 9/13/04 11:46 PM, Redwrath wrote: Simple question: Do you want ANYONE to have a gun?

It doesn't matter what I or you want, it's the law, right there in the constitution.

I don't. I don't trust myself, let alone anyone else with a gun.
Too much could go wrong.

And that's just fine. By all means, please do not go out and get a gun if you do not trust yourself. Lock yourself in a rubber room. As for trusting others, you do it all the time, right?? You trust people not to run red lights, to pay their taxes, etc. You put your life in the hands of others on a daily basis whether you realise it or not. How many people have you come acroos that had a concealed weapon permit and were carrying a gun? You have no way of knowing, but I'm willing to bet more than a few. The fact that you have never been shot by a gun, even though there are some hundreds of milions of them in this country, is testamony to the fact that 99.999 percent of gun owners are law-abiding citizens. Quit getting yer knickers in a knot.

The Forefathers never meant that the right to bear arms equals being able to carry around consealed pistols, not even including a 30 to 50 round mag. in a semi-auto. I was meant to be there in case of an emergency through foreign invasion.

We have lot's of evidence of what the forefathers meant by way of the federalist papers. 50 round mags and semi-autos were not around back then. They had what was for them state-of-the-art technology. Now we have state of the art technology for us. The 2nd amendment puts teeth in all the other amendments. Otherwise they are not worth the paper they're written on.

Free at last, Free at last, thank God almighty Free at last.........

But, they'll be back.

At 9/11/04 11:01 PM, centerfire wrote:

" It is very simple to outlaw the tools that criminals use and very difficult to outlaw people's poor judgement."

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Gun control is NOT about guns, it's about controlling people.

There seems to be a forgetfullness about what the 2nd amendment was put in the constitution to begin with. It has nothing to do with hunting, target shooting, etc.There is no constitutional right to hunt, etc. It's about the ability to defend onself, be it a rapist or a tyrannical government or a foriegn invasion. Go ahead, laugh, but if it were not for the guns the the colonists possessed we'd all be eating bad english food and speaking with a goofy accent.

The enxt time you see John Kerry, Bill CLinton, et.al waving a sgotgun for the camera while exclaiming he has no intentions of taking away your "right" to hunt, think about what he's NOT saying.

At 9/11/04 05:41 PM, Tal-con wrote: slewfoot, centerfire, i can't debate 2 people at the same time. I'll just end it with this, you can either ignore my next statement, prove me wrong, or flame me, either way, i'm not gonna respond, i don't know much about guns so it would be stupid of me to get in a serious debate. Ok here goes...

What makes a weapon an assault weapon?

The term "assault weapon: as currently used in the American Lexican means a semi-automatic rifle that has "uglY' or "evil" features. For example, a detachable clip, a flash suppressor, a folding stock, a protruding pistol grip or a bayonet. Note: according to the military and many others, a true assualt weapon is a selective-fire weapon. meaning you can switch between fully automatic fire and semiautomatic fire. Please note that automatic weapons have been outlawed since 1934. The media and all the anti's use the term "assualt" weapon to mean any gun they think I shouldn't be able to own. To which I reply; if I pick up a bowling bowl, and assault you with it, that ball has become an assault weapon.

don't know. Maybe a weapon which you need 2 hands to carry, or maybe a weapon that's more powerful than your average handgun...

The average deer rifle is much more powerful than an "assault" weapon. Go down to Walmart and ask to see a 30-06 round (deer rifle) and a 7.62x39 round ("Assault weapon" round). The '06 has much, much more power, and I can equip my deer rifle with the same cosmetic features found on the "assault" weapon. So, you see, it is all about smoke and mirrirs.

Either way, Why do we need so many different guns? What is this obsession with firearms? Do you collect them? Protection?

All the above. WHy does it matter??? Why do we need so many different models of automobiles. After all, it's just transportation, right?? WHy not take the bus??

I can't give you any statistics, but it seems to me that with all the crimes out there, guns seem to be doing more harm than good.

Criminals commit crime. Law-abiding citizens do not.

And i'll admit guns have protected people, but chances are if someone wants to rob you they have a gun too.

Exactly, but I know how to use mine a lot better than the crook does.

I mean this in no negative way at all, i just didn't wanna end my time in this thread on a bad note.

Have a nice day :)

We American threw off the yoke of British oppression some two hundred years ago beacuse why??? The colonists were armed after your Dad King George tried to take them away. Please, stay in British and confine yourself to British affairs, your snobery offends me.

I, too, do not understand why the size of a persons' phallus is being discussed in this thread.

There is so much misconception and just plain lies about this subject that one should check out any of the works done by Kleck, Kate, et al and read up on the statistics about crime and guns in this country. Here are a few facts ina nutshell.
The majority of violent felonies (rape, robbery, murder) are committed by repeat offenders. These people are pre-dispossed to commit crime. The average felon jailed for murder has already committed 5 to 6 felony offenses before he kills. COntrary to what you hear on 20/20, you are absolutely NOT likely to be killed by someone you know. You are most likely to be killed by a career criminal. AND, guns do not a killer make. People who have CWP's are the very least likely to commit a crime with their weapon. Why? Because they take their responsibility seriously. A gun doesn't make me a killer. I own bunches and I have gotten one speeding ticker in my life. I have no desire to mow down children waiting for the bus with my Ruger .22 or my WASR.

At 9/10/04 04:05 PM, Tal-con wrote:

At 6/21/04 04:55 PM, mabzie wrote: its pointless.

Why is it pointless? We don't need assault weapons... why, so we can kill people faster? Yeah, that's exactly what we need.

Why do you have bad thoughts about good people??? Why do you automatically think anybody with a "assault" weapon has bad intentions??? YOU probably don't need 80 percent of what you own, but you have it, no matter. Is there a needs-based test we need to pass in order to own something???? Did I miss something in the constitution that requires me to have permission to own something???

At 9/10/04 03:18 PM, grand_retard wrote: So, is it because Americans have very small dicks, or very small intellects that they need a very big gun to make them feel like a man?

Yes, I DO have a very small dick. And a very large gun . Lots of guns. And, I could care less what you think about small-dicked people with big guns, because, unlike you, I don't measure my manhood by the size of my penis of how many fatherless children I create. I measure it by how well I take care of my family and how good of a citizen I am.

BTW!!! I hear from a usually reliable source that there is already another, much more restrictive ban in the works, and that it will be attached as a rider to a social security bill that will be taken up by congress in Feb. We all know how much attention social security draws, so if it turns out to be a popular bill with lots of support, we may be doomed. I'll use Bill Clintons words against himself: If a rider can't stand alone as a bill, then it should be vetoed.

Thats not entirely true. Most people can own those items. You just have to justify why to your local police and fill out tons of paper work for the federal government and pay a 200$ license fee. Then wait for about 6 months to get your weapon or silencer.

)

yes anybody who is 21 and knows a class 3 with a clean record of no felonies and no history of assult can purchase full autos and silencers. you have to pay a BATF tax of 200 and also one more thing some fuckfuck said that you can only buy semi uzi's that fire like pistols..... WRONG DUMBASS im truely feel sorry for you misinformed son of a bitch. oh wait maybe its just that you cant and the rest of us normal intelligence people can. What a ass!!!!!

Your choice of unsavory language leads me to believe you have unresolved issues, perhaps from your childhood. So, as long as we're at the child level, lets go over this again. Yes, you CAN obtain such a liscense, but the VAST MAJORITY of people do not have one. So, then, if the average person does not have one, this means they cannot LEGALLY walk into a store and purchase an automatic weapon, yadda yadda yadda. Try to stay on track, please. Oh, and maybe you might check out an anger management class, before you hurt yourself.

At 9/9/04 07:14 PM, mofomojo wrote: BTW there are 10 000 Gun murders in the U.S. every year
Does america really need more guns?
A domestic gun ban would be nice
Only paintball guns are allowed (Fun to shoot, virtually harmless)
If america cracked down on guns like they did drugs... wow it would be a shit load safer
there are on average 300 gun deaths every year in canada
200 in the UK
150 in Austrailia

(I could go on like this all day...)

Yes, you could, and you would be just as full of misinformation. Go start a soup kitchen in Canada if you want to de safe and you think it's so glorious.

At 9/9/04 07:08 PM, mofomojo wrote: watch Michael Moores " Bowling for Columbine" movie
that should teach you about assault weapons

Why would somebody need an assault weapon , i dunno
Honestly who needs an AK-47 or a Tek-9 for something else than killing a fellow human being

Since when do I need to justify something to you or anyone else in order to own it? Is there some sort of test that I need to pass before I purchase something??

I think hand guns are the limit as far as defence goes and should only be allowed to one 2 as a maximum and it is never allowed to leave your house.

Thats ok that you think that. It's your opinion, but it's not the law. Personally, I think you should be limited to two Barbie dolls per month, and only when you get permission from the local Barbie Committee.

Shotguns and rifles are okay

Yes, they are, aren't they??

Who carrys an assault rife around with them....
Hmm... I dunno...

It doesn't matter that you don't know, no more than it matters if I know you carry around a rubber chicken. Who cares????

Such hatful words, oh my.

The original point, I believe , was that you can walk into a store and buy automatic weapons and silencers. Sure you can, but that's not the complete truth, only half of it. The average citizen, meaning 99.999% of the 300 million or so people in this country cannot walk into a store and buy such a weapon. It takes a special liscense from the BATF, which means, for all practical intents and purposes, that they are ILLEGAL for the vast majority of the citizenry to own.

Shoot some holes in that.

There are far more satisfying ways to embellsih my ego then explaing to you what you should already know, like making lots of holes in things. Yes, it makes me excited sexually, justs so you know. Now, pick up your toys and run home to mommy, she'll protect you.

The preamble to the constitution states that our CREATOR, NOT THE GOVERNMENT, grants us certain rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is not the government who gives us our rights. This is what some people want everyone to think, so that the government can then turn around and take away our rights (among them the right ot bear arms). This may come as a shock to many, but the government is not the fountain of happiness, granting us our rights as it see fits and taking them away at a whim. God gave me my rights, and only God can take them away.

Now, come back with some more rhetoric on that one, but first get out your constitution and read it. I have my copy right here.

So many weapons, sooo much ammo, too little time.......

Kirby

All of the rhetoric you sling can never hide the fact that you are scared of people who choose to live free. The "government" cannot and will not shield you from those who choose to commit evil acts upon you and I. What they will do is take a little bit more of your freedom and self-determination because you are scared of the boogey man, and promise you that bit of security you crave. Clue: there is no security in this world. The majority of us will leave it the sane way we came into it, kicking and screaming.

At 9/6/04 12:55 AM, KirbyMan wrote:

At 9/6/04 12:40 AM, Slewfoot wrote:

Well, when you buy something that is capable of and made to kill things/people I think it's the concern of everyone in your range that you're not going to murder them or rob them or mame them, the list goes on. IW is right, there are certain kind of guns only nessecary for crime (full autos, suppresors), so I think it's fair enough for people to be concerned when you buy one.

I could kill a lot more people with a few pounds of fertilizer and some diesel fuel than with an "assualt" weapon, or a plain 'ol shotgun, if I had the desire. You continue to assume that I have evil intent and try to predict what I might do with my evil guns. A gun is an inanimate object that has no thoughts or intent of it's own. It is not going to leap up, go down to the local day care, and spray little children with bullets. Evil resides within men, and any attempt to label an inan,mate object as evil is an attempt to re-assign blame. Liberals and socialists are full of reasons why someone can't possibly be responsible for their actions.

If you have the power to predict who is going to go out and commit harm, , please go save the people who need saving this very moment, otherwise you have no idea about me or anyone like me. I can murder, rob and maim with a ball bat. Possession of a certain (inanimate) object does not turn one into a killer or criminal. If you cared enough to study who commits crime and not just regurgitate what u hear on 20/20 then you would know who the threat is to us all. Please, get educated and quit repeating campaign slogans.

Try to stay with me on this, OK? Full-autos are illegal, as are silencers. Try to comprehend this before you reply so we can have an intelligent conversation.

Here's another thought to chew on. The Ten Commandments, as translated from the original hebrew language, does not say "thou shall not kill'. It says "thou shall not commit murder" A big difference. There are legitimate reasons for killing someone. If you can't stomach the thought of living like an animal and being fed like one, then mayne you ought never own a firearm. Or any other means of defending yourself.

At 9/6/04 12:47 AM, witeshark wrote: Stressing the right to own assault weapons means there is a motive to have that kind of weapon performance. Why? Are the malls that annoying?

I think all the Anti's stressing on "assualt weapons" says something about them. Why are you so worried about what I might do??Or anyone else, for that matter. What does it mean if I want to collect stamps or womens underwear, and does it really metter to you what I "might" do with them??

At 9/5/04 04:17 PM, IceWraith15 wrote: WHAT ON EARTH DO PEOPLE NEED ASSUALT WEAPONS FOR??? WHAT??? There is NO reason to own these weapons, as for 'self defense', try using a tazer or pepper spray, you don't need to shoot someone to defend your home. You certainly don't need an M-16 Semi-Auto.

What business is it of yours why I want to own an "assualt" weapon?? Since when do I need to justify why I want to own something? When??? Why do you care? Don't you have enough of your own concerns to worry about me? Why do you want to own a refrigerator??? Or a new car?? Or a new pair of shoes?? Aren't the old ones good enough for you?? What if you take that new car and run over a group of children waiting for the bus??? You certainly don't need that car. Too dangerous.

Stay the hell out of my business.

My intent is not to "Burn" anyone. Rather, I would like to see people well-informed about this subject. There is too much bad information, rumors, and plain lies about this issue. The anti's are hell-bent for leather on taking our 2nd amendment rights away. These are the same people who tried to appease Nazi Germany and are today all for appeasing the terrorists who want to blow us all up. I say shine a little light called the Truth on them and they will scurry back to their dark, dank holes like the cockroaches they are.