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At 1 day ago, Sacros wrote:

At 1 hour ago, Zachary wrote: Has anyone picked up CS5.5 yet? Is it any better than CS5? I have been hearing good things about it and was thinking about paying for the upgrade, but i'm not sure if it would be worth it.

Should I just wait for CS6 or what?

my bet is that 5.5 just fix the bazillion ammount of monstrous bugs every new version of flash carry

every program has a bug or two but flash takes it to a whole new level

correct me if im wrong, i dont know how much is it till 6.0 but if its not much then wait, a new version means new stuff instead of maintenance

I think you should stick with older versions like CS3 or even 8.
They are the best versions of Flash ever made. The other ones are full of bugs and useless features that aren't good and efficent.

Hmm I always see similar people with the same attitude.

Well I use a Bamboo too.
So you're starting out in drawing eh? Well I recommend you go through a book called Advanced Animation made by Preston Blair. You can find it at AnimationResources.org or you can buy it through Amazon. It will teach you about the basic principles of cartoon drawing. It's a good solid book and if you use it correctly, your drawing skills will improve in a few months depending if you can learn things fast, or not.

The procedure for learning (if you decide to follow it, I can't force you to do it, it's up to you), is :
1.Copy the finished drawings, but copy with your brain. Use the procedure shown by Preston, constructing the major forms, wrapping the guide lines to help you along the form, drawing the 2nd level of forms and drawing the details.
2.Check it out in Photoshop, lay them out one on top of the other and lower the opacity of your drawing. Check for any errors.
3. If you did spot any errors, do another copy, doing the same thing as in step 1 but taking care to not do the same errors again.
4.Check it again to see if there's any errors. Usually you won't have too many errors, but it's always good to check out. You can try copying again if you want but generally, people can move on from on now.
5.Do another drawing based on the drawing you copied (like, if the drawing you copied is seen at an 3/4 angle, then draw another seen from the side or the front). This way you'll see if you managed to understand the concepts explained by Preston.
6.Keep doing this until you can copy his drawings accurately enough (it doesn't need to be a PERFECT copy, but a good one), and all the information has sunk into your brain.

It's what I'm going through at the moment. You don't need to listen to what I said, obviously. I'm just saying what works for me - and supposedly, worked for other people who used the book as well.

At 8 hours ago, C1oak wrote: Clearly it seems Flash and similar vector-based programs are ideal for web-clips, funny shorts, etc, right?

And I would wager TVPaint, ToonBoom, etc would be better for...TV series/movies?

Yes. They are ideal for this, since Flash is meant for the web, not for TV. There are people who push it to it extremes making stuff like Fosters or MLP, though.

I actually just listen to music when I'm starting out, to loosen up things a bit, but I close up everything that's making any sort of noise in my computer so I can pay full attention to my animation.

The music is there just to help me go with the flow.

At 1 hour ago, Sacros wrote:

At 5 hours ago, leocartoon1 wrote:
Although, at this point there's still no open source software dedicated to fbf like I wanted to have.
The closest thing you can do is either use GIMP, or just keep drawing a layer at time in a free image editing program and then play them at a fast rate.
Sad thing is that most open source programs for animation are mostly tween-based, like Synfig. I heard that KToon (which doesn't work in Windows, dammit) supports full FBF animation although I have a Windows so I can't really check if that's really true.

there is "pencil" which is FbF based and runs on windows, its a really simple program though

if i was a good programmer id definetly help develop the project cuz it looks promising

there is a flash clone made for linux too which was the equivalent of flash 5, it supports actionscript and all for programming and preloaders, problem is it got its ass gang-raped by lawyers and dissapeared, but hey, you cant kill softwere completely, a little research should do the trick

I have used Pencil, but then I got a new tablet and it stopped working with it : <

Plus it crashed as hell.
I'd love to have a friend who could create programs, I'd make him do at least a basic thing that had at least some decent drawing tools (unlike Flash) and other useful features. And it would be open source.

BTW, here's two animation branches for MyPaint. I really haven't tested them, but they look good. I'm still trying to figure out a way to get and test these two.
And there's AzDrawing as well. It's a program focused on inking but I have tested it and it has a very very very simple animation tool (it just use layers as the frames). But again, it stopped working with my tablet :/

The details are following the forms more unlike the first one, but I feel that the arm is jumping a bit too much.

I love chiptunes so I just open Keygen Jukebox (don't worry, no keygens, just music. If you don't believe check it for yourself) in a new tab and start animating.

At 11 hours ago, Sacros wrote:

At 7 hours ago, ReNaeNae wrote: adobe transcript

lol, sorry about asking insted of googling i swear im not always retarded

anyways, i belive we should support the open source alternative, not because of free stuff only but for reasons regarding the positive traits of said open source movement

specially in times where corporation vampires endangers stuff like the internets and freedom and stuff, if we have pretty darn good lawful alternatives like GIMP they are left without excuses for for those atrocious proposals of them (like the FBI being allowed to have record of all your activities and shit...[if im being broadcaste in some secret intel office - HI ])

just a thought

Although, at this point there's still no open source software dedicated to fbf like I wanted to have.
The closest thing you can do is either use GIMP, or just keep drawing a layer at time in a free image editing program and then play them at a fast rate.
Sad thing is that most open source programs for animation are mostly tween-based, like Synfig. I heard that KToon (which doesn't work in Windows, dammit) supports full FBF animation although I have a Windows so I can't really check if that's really true.

At 12 hours ago, Sacros wrote:
thanks for the insight on vectors and TVpaint (my bet was it was some shit tier abandoned software charging 1 dolrar )

also didnt know vectors were actually held in mathematicall form during runtime, interesting stuff

but i think your explanation might be too hardcore, im sorry for being a douche and try to give a more simple depiction:

raster: think MS paint or photoshop (i know PS is capable of vectors too but you get it), that style

vector: think flash drawings, smooth lines, awkwardly vivid colors

Yeah, the raster depiction is right, although the vector one should be more like :
Vector : Graphics created based on math so instead of being a mosaic like raster ones, they're a bunch of math expressions being run by the computer.

I think it's still too hardcore lol

And yeah, TVPaint is good, the learning curve is just a bit too steep.

At 34 minutes ago, C1oak wrote: What's vector-based versus non-vector based mean? I think I understand, but I'm not sure. If I had to guess, non vector-based means simply hand-drawn images, and vector based deals with shapes that you move and animate with shortcuts and formulas...I think.

It's not that.

Vectors still can be hand drawn in Flash's case.

Vectors are drawings made based on mathematical expressions. They are resolution independent, so that means infinite scaling without any kind of drop in quality.
They however have to be simple, if something is too complex it might be very slow to render since it's all math and thus the computer has to render these in real time. Try tracing a photo in Flash for example (not real tracing, I'm talking about the command called "Trace bitmap". don't do this though, it's just an example). It will be slow as hell depending on your settings, usually it lags a lot when you make it seem close to the original image. Most times it stops working and will crash.
So because of this, vectors are good for simple drawings that don't need any complex effects or shading applied to them.

Raster graphics are based on pixels, so they are resolution dependent. That means you can't scale them too much, or else the image will get too pixelly (is this even a word?), if you know what I mean.
Raster is good for complex things which need a lot of complex effects/shading such as realistic digital paintings for example.

I'm not so sure if all I said is right, this is all I know from experience so someone out there that can find any error with this, feel free to say I'm wrong and correct me.

At 16 minutes ago, thespazicat wrote:

At 44 minutes ago, leocartoon1 wrote: It's actually good I guess, but I feel that the face is floating a lot around the head.
Draw some construction lines in the cranium and keep the face fixed to it. Don't make it float make it seem that the face is on a different plane than everything else.

originally it was just going to be the body moving but at the last minute i decided to add the face and do a lip sync test, but i decided to animate it on a different layer so you are right about how the face wasnt in place and on a different drawing plane, thanks anyways

No problem.
But remember to always wrap your details around the bigger forms - in this case, the details are the face, while the big form here is the head.

It's actually good I guess, but I feel that the face is floating a lot around the head.
Draw some construction lines in the cranium and keep the face fixed to it. Don't make it float make it seem that the face is on a different plane than everything else.

At 4 hours ago, Kurai-Samurai wrote:

At 1 day ago, 0peth wrote: animating. I've never animated before, and have zero knowledge.

From my research I need:
Macromedia Flash
A tablet

and...what else? Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated :)

Tablets are extremely useful assets, but not necessary, I'd still highly recommend one. You don't need to crazy shit and buy a big or expensive one though, a standard A5 kinda size is good to start with.

Flash is good, but it's not specifically made for animation, and it crashes constantly. You could go for Toom Boon Animate Pro, but it's really, really expensive.

As for 2D animation in general, it's very useful to be a good drawer, you'll generally find your drawing ability will hold you back and make things take longer than they have as you progress in making animations. It's good to practice and increase your drawing ability, because when you want to draw a specific pose, you don't spend an hour messing about with it and saying "Shit, that still doesn't look right."

Oh, and read some books like the Animators Survival Guide, The Illusion of Life ect. They're pretty good resources aswell.

Good luck!

I'd second everything he said.
What makes people use Flash is it's flexbility. I wouldn't even use it, but you can also make sites, games and other things with it. So it's not just animation.
You can also get Toon Boom Studio which is basically Animate but toned down with its core features in it. It's also cheaper.

On the drawing part. You have to be good at moving forms in space, how to interlock these forms to create new and interesting forms (like anatomy for example, although it would be stupid to animate realistic people with realistic proportions and anatomy, it's too hard to make a single drawing, let alone make thousands of them. Plus get a camera if you need realism), along with drawing these forms having their direction determined by a line of action, and many other things.

On the books thing, I can recommend another that will be useful.
Advanced Animation by Preston Blair. It's a pretty good book (better than the mess Cartoon Animation). It's still in sale through Amazon (the name is Animation 1, being sold by Walter Foster I think), but you can get free scans (it's completely legal to get 'em, however it's better to have a copy in hands) at AnimationResources.org.

I second The Animators Survival Kit, but I don't recommend The Illusion of Life that much. It's just talking about how Disney was better than everyone else at animation and so on. The best (and useful) chapter is the one where Frank and Ollie talk about animation principles.

At 4 hours ago, Sacros wrote: nice work man

tvpaint? seems mediocre and shitty, dunno though, never used it

seriously go for GIMP, nobody will think you are a communist for using an open source software, its free and it support vectors and raster and it has an animation pack which lets you animate confortably

or just stop wandering and get flash, this is a flash based community...despite the fact flash is a daying technology...but adobe are some smart fucks who will do everything to predate your cash so they will probably fix that shit

TVPaint is not as shitty and mediocre as it seems. I have actually used it and it's kinda good. It has all these effects and brushes which make it seem like a toned down Photoshop specially made for animation.

It's harder to learn how to use it than GIMP's animation packages (two animation packages available, one being more focused on real animations, and the other being an all around thing for making gifs and so on), but it's worth it.
I actually didn't have a hard time with it, I just needed to read the manual and I was set, kinda like with Toon Boom, I thought it was very hard but really wasn't that much.

But hey, GIMP is free and is in active development. TVPaint is active too, but it's a commercial software.
If anyone actually remembers (I really doubt), TVPaint is the old Mirage.

At 4 hours ago, Cool-Beans wrote: I've got adobe flash cs5 on my pc and want to know if i could somehow connect my Lenovo X220 Tablet to the pc and use the tablet as a graphics tablet and does anybody know how to fix flash error 6 and error 11

I don't know about these Flash errors, but are you having problems with connecting your tablet and using it on Flash? Or it just doesn't work at all?

Be ready, it's going to take a lot of time.

Unless you're some kind of magic person who has worked in the animation industries back then and was animating like crazy everyday making many minutes a week.

At 10 minutes ago, Jynxxx wrote:

At 41 minutes ago, leocartoon1 wrote: Maybe they have some darn good hands.

I know of a little app called LazyNezumi which works like the smoothing tool in Paint Tool SAI, if you have ever used it.
Too bad it doesn't work with Flash, I tested it and it didn't work. Maybe it can work in other versions (I use CS3), but I really doubt it.

There's also this dude which explains a bit how he inks his things in Flash.

Thanks for that link, I love reading up on other people's procedures anyway.

Even though his lines (and art) are great, it's still nothing compared to what I'm talking about. If anything, his style (and generally the Flash style) is much like how the cartoon Ed, Edd, and Eddy is drawn, if you know what I mean.

However, I think at this point, it may just be the fact the animators have, as you put it, darn good hands.

Actually Ed, Edd and Eddy have a much more loose ink style than Bob Jinx's stuff.
But really, I think it's way better this way.
I find loose lines more stylish and nice than those perfect lines. It gives a nice traditional feel about it. You also have to remember that they have tons of clean up artists on these tv shows, so it's tons of people working to give these things perfect lines.

Maybe they have some darn good hands.

I know of a little app called LazyNezumi which works like the smoothing tool in Paint Tool SAI, if you have ever used it.
Too bad it doesn't work with Flash, I tested it and it didn't work. Maybe it can work in other versions (I use CS3), but I really doubt it.

There's also this dude which explains a bit how he inks his things in Flash.

At 7 hours ago, Celshaded wrote:

At 2 minutes ago, 0peth wrote: Thanks everyone for the responses. I think I will definitely get the Wacom tablet. All I need after that is latest version of Flash, right?

I think going straight into flash when you're just starting out is jumping the gun a little. I think you should start out animating on paper. If you have a scanner or a web cam, there are lot's of free programs out there that will capture your images and make them into a movie for you.

I would even suggest making some flipbooks first.

Or he could get some free and simple programs like Plastic Animation Paper or even Easytoon and start learning animation with them.

I'd recommend PAP over Easytoon, though, if you're going to do this.

At 2 hours ago, Corky-D wrote: How many of you use the bone tool?

Do you consider it a time saver or just a lazy hack?

I would consider it as a lazy tool.

If you're animating, why not ANIMATE it yourself. It gives a way better result.

At 2 hours ago, Sacros wrote:

At 2 hours ago, leocartoon1 wrote: I would mention Plastic Animation Paper, but you said you have a Mac so it wouldn't work (it's for windows only).

There's two plugins for doing animation on GIMP, by the way. One is GIMP-GAP and the other is The GIMP Lightbox. I use Lightbox and it's simpler than GAP but I don't really know, it's up to you.

is it too hard to master? im interested in going GIMP, how do you make your preloaders?

uh there's no preloaders......?

It's not too hard, you just have to get used to it.
Also, if you really want preloaders you can just export everything as a PNG/JPG/whatever sequence and then import everything to Flash again, then organize every frame then put the preloader in the Flash as you would.

If you go to the Lightbox's site there's some tutorials explaining the basics like how to install it on GIMP for those who don't know, how to animate a ball bounce and a walk.

Sad thing is that GIMP works with raster so no infinite scaling :<

I would mention Plastic Animation Paper, but you said you have a Mac so it wouldn't work (it's for windows only).

There's two plugins for doing animation on GIMP, by the way. One is GIMP-GAP and the other is The GIMP Lightbox. I use Lightbox and it's simpler than GAP but I don't really know, it's up to you.

You can use the paint inside function of the brush tool as well.

openCanvas 1.1 is free as well, along with MyPaint (it just lacks selection tools :< )

Start with one of those.

His structure is kinda weird and crazy.

On one side his arm is curved like a cartoon arm, then on the other it's drawn the way it should be. Stay with only one of these.

At 1/23/12 07:58 PM, mcnbowen wrote: Adobe makes professional programs so flash is the obvious choice. I'd say once you are more proficient in animation have a go at Toonboom animate. those are pretty much all you need.

This.

Flash is the popular tool around here, it's a good one when you're starting out since it's easy to pick up and such.
When you get really good at it you can try to use Toon Boom. But you need some experience with traditional animation (at least the process) so you can use it without problems.
But get Flash, it's probably your best option.

It really seems you're improving since you started this.

Flash's drawing tools aren't really good, IMO.
As you said it tends to mess to much with your lines.

At 1/13/12 02:55 AM, fluffkomix wrote: My early influences into animation were Foamy, Madness, and Waterman cartoons. All the bad stuff, but i liked them because i was stupid back then (i guess madness isn't too bad now, but the fanbase is a bit ridiculous). Then as i was actually starting out animation my main influences were eddsworld, happyharry, and egoraptor. Current inspirations are Bruce Timm, Glen Keane, Ryan Miller (rtil), Happy Harry, and Ryan J Woodward. Their work is always a pleaasure to study and break apart

I agree with you on the Glen Keane and Happy Harry part.

I'd also say Bob Clampett, Chuck Jones, Tex Avery and Milt Kahl.
These guys are my biggest influences.

I also like to study their work for certain things I'd like to do with my anims.

Hmmm, it seems good except for the fact that it doesn't vary the weight of the lines. That's kinda a shame for those who would like to make drawings with bold lines (cartoons for example) but are instead left with a line that's more suitable to technical drawings.