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At 2/22/14 10:53 PM, Camarohusky wrote:

What does the individual mandate have to do with HIV patients being denied coverage?

Low income HIV patients being denied coverage by the Insurance firms that the government is supposed to pay for under a welfare program. Just outlines the incompetence of Government is all. Another reason to use Universal health care models like countries with health care systems that actually work.

So, what does this have to do with the HIV patients being denied?

Once again incompetence of Government fucking around the people.

There really has never been much a of a free market in the US when it comes to health insurance.

That's denying that the US has one of the worst health care systems in the developed world.

But still, I am wondering how exactly this change in the market lead to the denail of the HIV patients.

Because Insurance companies are not in the business of health care they are in the business of making money. Which stands to reason why in the fuck would the Government bring these third party ass holes into health care and give them the power to choose who to make money from when peoples lives are at risk.

Blahbedy Blah Blah Blah. What about the denial of the HIV patients?

It's a double whammy with the individual mandate and AHCA dictating the mandatory used of third party insurance brokers.

Had some hell of a flu since Monday worst is over. Was shitting all day Thursday and sneezing like I never have before. Had blood pour from my asshole from all the diarrhea burning my rectum. Ok now and I can eat some food again.

At 2/22/14 08:15 PM, Feoric wrote:

And do you know what this entails? No, you don't. I'm not comfortable in making the leap from 'activist role' to 'CIA involvement' and/or 'Western engineered coup' based off of public knowledge about events that happened over in the Middle East but hey, this is a fucking internet forum afterall.

You don't you know what's going on only what some fucking third rate media has been telling us so lets go on what we know for somewhat fact is that the Americans gave $15 Billion in Welfare money to Ukraine and that Putin will match that plus give a discount on Gas. I like Russia's deal better because we need to break this American Hegemony and bring them back into the world economy on a more natural even level.

At 2/22/14 05:41 PM, Entice wrote:

At 2/20/14 03:41 PM, sharpnova wrote: Let me sum up this conversation: I say homophobia is a misnomer.

That's not a response, and you know that you said much more than that. Thanks for being completely predictable though.

Misnomer about sum it all up. Time to end this nonsense.

War is about effectivly spreading Teror. Unless the bots are programed to kill and rape inocent presons and property then the mechanism of War will not be acheived which is once again Terror. First is Political/economic terrorism then if the other party does not submit to the subjugation package that the States are trying to sell on the victim then the War machine wakes up.

At 2/22/14 04:02 PM, RydiaLockheart wrote: How does one go about reporting a PM spammer?

Just contact a mod. Preferable one that actually takes care of business and is actually around regularly. I got spammed as well by that douche bag.

At 2/22/14 03:34 PM, Feoric wrote:

There's two thing heres. One, if there's no proof then it's baseless speculation. Big organized protest movements can happen and have happened without state provided assistance, internal or otherwise. Either the Maiden protesters are extremely organized and are capable of logistical planning to keep things fluid and possess the ability to funnel supplies to the frontlines without third party support, or they're doing all of this because the CIA is helping them (yet they're so super secret none of the thousands of people involved has caught wind of this and posted about it on social media). I'm going with Occam's Raz

Fact 1. We know that the IMF/Americans have a vested interest in Ukraine to the tune of more than $15 Trillion

Fact 2. UK and Russia also have a vested interest in Ukraine

WHY ! do three major power house nations all take massive interest in Ukraine.

At 2/22/14 02:13 PM, Feoric wrote:

The Defense Minister has control of the army, not the PM.

Always debating the small things you are. Whats up with that video. Was there a purpose ? Say Police were shooting people but all that was heard was apparently what seemed to be gun shots but there was absolutely no indication what so ever that the shots if those were in fact gun shots were fired from police any kind. In fact the claimed shoters were not even video tapped LOL. Cant belive how easy some people fall for propaganda and lies. Those facts puts this video into the range of Propaganda until proven otherwise.

At 2/22/14 11:52 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 2/22/14 11:47 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: So the Government had nothing to do with introducing into Law that the Insurance companies are a required middle man in attaining health care coverage ? I agree the Insurance Companies are to blame but then so is the Government.

Actually no. Because the ACA's individual mandate has nothing to do with this.

Other than the fact the AHCA aka Obama Care is an Individual Mandate which dictates that every citizen MUST purchase 3rd party health coverage from insurance companies as a requirement of citizenship in the USA. If you don't support the AHCA then the IRS will collect by the use of force.

Forcing people onto private insurance means nothing if those people wouldn't have had insurance before. The denial would not deterimentally affect their position as their position would have remained the same.

Claimed "lesser country's" in Europe have better health care and everyone receives the same level of care and it is paid through taxes.
"On June 28, 2012, the Supreme Court of the United States upheld the health insurance mandate as a valid tax"
Ok like that one went to a vote LOL. So much for democracy.

In fact the individual mandate should be ameliorating the elimination of the shady practices by bringing millions of new customers in.

It's not bringing anything in but subordination and less options to the people. It's effectively monopolizing health care and tampering with the "Free Market".

"In 1994, the Congressional Budget Office issued a report describing an individual mandate to buy insurance as "an unprecedented form of federal action... The government has never required people to buy any good or service as a condition of lawful residence in the United States."

This is Corruption and subjugation to the fullest extent. Big Government and Welfare is proven to be the demise of every oligarchy. This hegemonic Big Government and "Big Change" ideal you are so in love with will be the end of your freedom well at leased the little bit you had left that is and that's just to start. The fall of the Roman Empire was because of their debasing the currency, political corruption, and their welfare state.

At 2/22/14 11:41 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 2/22/14 11:37 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: Welfare state ? Insurance companies ? privatized medical industry ? I don't want the obvious I asked politely for your opinion.

The insurance comapnies are to blame here. Health insurance companies are notorious for doing everything they can to avoid paying on their legal obligations.

So the Government had nothing to do with introducing into Law that the Insurance companies are a required middle man in attaining health care coverage ? I agree the Insurance Companies are to blame but then so is the Government.

At 2/22/14 11:40 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 2/22/14 11:34 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: Implying that the US Government has never started a coup.

What does the US have to gain in starting a coup in Ukraine?

Profit and domination.

At 2/22/14 11:33 AM, Camarohusky wrote:

At 2/21/14 11:07 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Who is to blame in your opinion ?

It's pretty obvious, isn't it?

Welfare state ? Insurance companies ? privatized medical industry ? I don't want the obvious I asked politely for your opinion.

At 2/22/14 11:19 AM, Feoric wrote:

If you thought even for a second about the political and geopolitical ramifications the US would face for having a CIA funded protest in Ukraine in an attempt to expand their sphere of influence in Russia's backyard

Implying that the US Government has never started a coup.

At 2/22/14 11:07 AM, lapis wrote:

At 2/22/14 10:50 AM, Feoric wrote: There's no need for strawmans,

A strawman? How about "The CIA does not provide support to every violent protest in the entire world"? Well, fucking duh, Feoric, just maybe those where they have an interest, the capacity and a justification. But hey, who am I to think that the CIA would do exactly what it was founded to do.

People like Feoric won't believe shit until the war is right on his doorstep. Even then he will still back up his failing ideals and corrupt Government. Unless Obama states that the Government is corrupt people like Feroic will never admit the truth. Not knocking him just saying that some people need to maintain half truths and full lies in their mind in order to maintain their sanity and uphold the ideals they have worked hard to achieve.

At 2/22/14 10:55 AM, Feoric wrote:

At 2/22/14 10:54 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: Having a closed mind is also no good.

I opened my mind to what you're saying and I realized how fucking stupid it is.

What is it that you think I am saying other than the facts ?

At 2/22/14 10:50 AM, Feoric wrote:

There's no need for strawmans, just like there's no need for asinine conspiracy theories. There's absolutely no evidence the US is involved directly with the protestors, so saying "it makes sense, maaan" isn't going to make your argument for you.

Having a closed mind is also no good.

At 2/22/14 10:35 AM, lapis wrote:

At 2/22/14 09:57 AM, leanlifter1 wrote:

I am willing to entertain the idea that, say, the CIA provided logistical and/or financial support for not just the mainstream opposition but even the more militant factions among the protesters, knowing full well that their shananigans could lead to at least a couple dozen casualties. It would make sense, since the country is pretty much divided anyway so this gives the US an opportunity to wrest a strategically important country out of Russia's grip with minimal effort. Besides, it could be a tool to put pressure on Russia over Syria. But I'm pretty sure that that's how far US involvement in this situation would go. This has absolutely nothing to do with the dollar. Every country in the history of mankind has looked after its interests, and the US is no different: the only relationship between propping up the petrodollar and American involvement in Ukraine is that both are or could be part of US strategy to at least maintain its geopolitical position. That's it. The dollar does not deserve to be mentioned further in this context. And the IMF is an institution with its own interests, not always necessarily aligning with those of the US.

It's about control and domination and maintain the hegemony. The IMF has large American interests and money invested. The US controls a vast majority of the vote on decisions made within the IMF in their headquarters in Washing DC. Point is Ukraine is at an economic disadvantage and they are going to get fucked over which ever way they turn. The question is who will offer them the most humane deal. Seems Russia has the best deal so far with $15 Billion in Welfare funding and discounted gas prices which could save Ukraine $2 Billion a year.

At 2/22/14 10:17 AM, Feoric wrote:

At 2/21/14 10:26 AM, lapis wrote: If pluralism fails, then the country should be partitioned into a Ukrainian nation-state in the west and a Russo-Ukrainian state in the east and Crimea. The former can then join the Western institutions and the latter can join Putin's customs union. Good luck drawing a border between those states, though. I wonder if this is what the rioting fascists of Svoboda are aiming for.

I don't think this can be a viable option, considering the fact that eastern Ukraine is where all the heavy industry is, plus that's where Ukraine's only coastline is. A split would leave any potential Western EU state landlocked and dependent on agriculture exports. Western Ukraine is the poorest region of the country, and it's not a coincidence that the East is the most prosperous.

In other news, the Rada just voted to dismiss Yanukovich. Elections will be held on May 25.

Yanukovich hit the mark when he stated that the west is to onerous in their dealings. Weather Ukraine takes money from the west or takes money from Russia the fact is the Ukraine needs money and Russia is offering the better deal.

At 2/22/14 09:46 AM, Twin81 wrote:

The main trouble will be pacifying the radicals

Who are the radicals ?

The radical party named 'The Right Sector' who announced that they will continue the revolution. Russian mass media claims they are behind all that mess and the opposition are actually pawns in their hands. Things are very serious indeed. But we'll see. I think Russia won't interfere. Not now at least.
And I sincerely hope Ukraine won't split up. It's the worst scenario. Yeah, their economics is in trouble now, but hope they'll cope.

I think the elections are rather important. Of course economic issues would affect them. But the new president will mean changes I think. Will it lean towards EU or Russia - we'll see.

I am talking very serious like another brick paved in the road to WW III. You also forgot about the IMF which are all up in this shit as well with over $15 Billion invested in the subjugation/oppression of the Ukraine. Mr. Yanukovich kindly declined a current offer from the IMF because the terms and conditions were to onerous. So we got the IMF/USA, EU, Russia fighting over Ukraine.

At 2/22/14 09:24 AM, lapis wrote:

Things could get nasty if the varying factions in Ukraine don't get their shit together.

The Ukraine should just take the $15 Billion on offer from President Vladimir Putin and STFU cause it's the best deal they will get and they have no bargaining chips.

At 2/22/14 08:06 AM, Twin81 wrote: Ukraine is kinda split, you've noted already. Nearly evenly split. The opposition has won, there will be a new presidential election in 2014, and I don't know what course the new president will take.

In 2010 the IMF gave Ukraine more than $15 Billion in aid and the EU is offering the Ukraine a shit deal that would mean Political and economic suicide for the Ukraine. Russian President Vladimir Putin has offered another $15 Billion in assistance and a steep discount on natural gas. Russia's deal is much better than the IMF or the EU are willing to offer. A presidential election will not matter unless the IMF or EU bank roll a new one in which will mean once again economic and political suicide.

The main trouble will be pacifying the radicals

Who are the radicals ?

which hold lots of weapons now and their leader announced that they won't stop until Yanukovich _immediately_ resigns and leaves his presidential chair. Actually the opposition leaders aren't a true power now, those that stay behind them do.
Mind that part of Ukraine is deeply linked with Russia, we've been one country since the 19th century. Not politically, culturally linked, common people in both countries consider themselves friends and brothers, well, not counting the radical nationalists.
Anyway, we'll see. Ukraine will have a new government soon and a new political course.

This issue is allot more serious than you guy's are lead to believe.

At 2/22/14 12:01 AM, Warforger wrote:

I did list them in that post, but I can probably spend a good hour scouring your posts to find 100 logical fallacies.

Please reiterate the claimed logical fallacy's pertaining to this thread in a civil manor without using Ad hominem attacks and I will respond in a like manor as to clarifying my position and why they are not fallacies.

No it provides government data.

So Government's never lie ?

First off how is this relevant? Where did I use .gov sources?

You did not cite a Government sponsored source to information but you flamed me for calling bullshit on another user. I stated that the .gov site that he linked to was Rhetorical nonsense and non conclusive and then you replied to me and stated ".....This is the definition of delusional.".... Without going on as to why in your opinion that the information presented was not in your opinion Rhetorical nonsense and inconclusive.

Used only because the other party drew first blood in the form of an Ad hominem attack.

Ad hominem is not every insult ever,

Correct as as an Ad hominem attack is when someone personally attacks the messenger instead of the the message usually to try and derail and dis credit the victims message because it might not coincide with their own personal opinions.

it's when your argument is purely an attack on the others character.

Agreed.

Thats all you talk about while at the same time using Ad hominem attacks without debating anything in a proper and civil manor.
What is your stance on the topic ? If I find logic, reasoning and rational in your words than I am inclined to engage in a civil and intelligent manor.

No I'm not, what I'm saying is that your posts are awful.

You have many spelling mistakes

Would not say many at all as I proof read and use spell check. I would admit that I could tighten up my punctuation.

and your arguments are pure logical fallacy.

Which ones on this topic ? Lets straighten this out.

I've pointed out some of them.

Which ones ?

What I'm saying is that you're contributing essentially nothing, you reach your conclusion then stick to it despite any form of disagreement, which is why no one wants to debate with you.

So then tell me how does this sound to you ?

"If one hates x they are x" which is basically what that stupid nonsensical rhetorical POS write up by your truly the US Government tried to claim as absolute fact.

At 2/21/14 10:48 PM, Camarohusky wrote: I can think of two reasons why the companies are now denying the patients, as opposed to before.

Either they are trying to make a political statement by causing harm and hoping (rather successfully) that the populace will be too stupid to blame the real party and will blame the ACA instead.

Who is to blame in your opinion ?

At 2/21/14 10:30 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 2/21/14 01:18 PM, ASmallOstrich wrote: I believe in handling yourself. Simple as that, I have no responsibility to take care of anyone that I don't want to, and that's how it should be. You talk about housing for the poor, and feeding the hungry, but all in all, I don't care about them, and why should I? We should have the right to use what is ours for reasons that we choose on an individual basis. I agree, no corporate bailouts, but no individual bailouts either. Let the people fall, and they will see there is a problem, and fix it themselves. And kill or be killed was in the sense of hold your own, or fail, that's how it should be simple as that, why do I need to care, or worry about the guy next door through the forced taking of what is rightfully mine? Is spreading wealth not the same as thievery, just under the guise of tax?

The difference is this mass misunderstanding of the way welfare systems work.

It's not a misunderstanding that Millions of people abuse the WelFare system.

The thing is the basic kind of welfare is a safety valve not a permanent crutch. In terms of food stamps those are usually temporary when people lose their jobs and cannot afford food, unemployment insurance is a similar thing.

These are positive safety nets for the many that do not have great support networks to rely on when in need. Problem is that there are many Welfare bums that can't pull their collective heads out of the sand.

The way most welfare programs worked was they first provided a cushion for poor people, then they were coupled with job training programs and first free and later subsidized public education, that way people who were first leeching off of the system got higher paying jobs.

I never heard of Welfare bums getting a job let alone a higher paying one. That said it goes both ways. That Welfare to work program was little more than an economic enslavement for the people it was supposed to help and a money grab for the Government.

This caused revenue to increase because these people moved up into higher tax brackets. These were not as much "government hand-outs" as much as they were "goverment hand-ups".

Really it's Government helping itself as it turned these people into tax paying ATMs machines for the Government LOL.

Yet for some reason the lie has been repeated that welfare of the 60's was a failure, despite the fact that the status of black people has improved with many more entering the middle class, or the vastly lower rate of poverty.

Affirmative action.

Whether or not you support welfare morally and philosophically is one thing, but to call it a failure based off of mere rhetoric is another.

There are more people on Welfare in the US than ever in the history of the Country.

At 2/21/14 10:20 PM, Warforger wrote:

At 2/20/14 02:31 AM, leanlifter1 wrote: You have given nothing of value to the topic.

Not to the topic, but the forum in general. Your posts are usually ignored, I'm taking the time out to point out the logical fallacies in them and your stubborn attitude in an effort to get you to understand how terrible your posts are.

What logical fallacies ?

Not Philosophical or moral or intellectual value of any kind.

Appeal to ethos.

Also your posts are textbook logical fallacies which whimper in the face of disagreement and crawl into a corner shouting "NOOOOOOOO".

Again what logical fallacies. All you do instead of debate is try and claim logical fallacies and use Ad hominem attacks to justify your own opinions and deter others from facts.

Where are your sources for what you believe to be true is it Government ?

Oh so apparently not only does the government propagate an idea that homophobes are closet homosexuals, you can only be either on the side of the government or on your side. Your logical fallacy is black and white.

So a .gov internet site provides only non biased irrefutable truth ?

Do you want to be controlled ?

You are a very bitter an ill tempered person.

Ad hominem.

Used only because the other party drew first blood in the form of an Ad hominem attack.

Pro-tip: when you use insults people are going to act hostile in response.

Please try to use logic and rational if you wish to converse in the future.

Really? I'm not sure if you noticed but my posts are pointing out the flaws in your logic, or moreover the lack there of.

Thats all you talk about while at the same time using Ad hominem attacks without debating anything in a proper and civil manor. What is your stance on the topic ? If I find logic, reasoning and rational in your words than I am inclined to engage in a civil and intelligent manor.

At 2/21/14 05:25 PM, orangebomb wrote:

At 2/21/14 03:58 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Please do research on what is and how the World Reserve Currency works.

First off, what does this World Reserve Currency have to do with the chaos in Ukraine?

If Ukraine sides with Russia they are officially rejecting the current World Reserve currency.

Second, don't use things that you have no proof of that aren't one-sided, biased sources for "petrodollar" or World Reserve Currency garbage.

You are denying that a World Reserve currency exists ?

This really has nothing to do with America for the most part, so quit trying to pass the blame to something that that either is irrelevant or has nothing to do with the conversation at all. Please refrain from derailing the topic at hand.

Your lack of understanding and blatant ignorance and disregard of global issues and make no mistake this is a Global issue such as the reality that if the Ukraine desires to move away from the west and get friendly with China/Russia which are in bed with each other then this is just another peg in the ladder for the demise of the American Hegemony. Ukraine's President is not stupid in that he realizes that it will be of great benefit to get friendly with the worlds next superpower while in times of relative peace.

At 2/21/14 04:00 PM, Ranger2 wrote:

At 2/21/14 03:58 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Please do research on what is and how the World Reserve Currency works.

You don't even know what that means. You use words like "world reserve currency" and "petrodollar" incorrectly because you read them in a pamphlet somewhere.

Don't make it personal man just please research how the World Reserve currency works and why a nations Government would want to hold onto it.

At 2/21/14 03:53 PM, Ranger2 wrote:

At 2/21/14 03:26 PM, lapis wrote: How? From what is China going to protect the Ukraine, and by what means? Seriously, what do you even mean?

Leanlifter1 thinks that even somebody sneezing in Papua New Guinea is the result of the US. I really wish the US was powerful as Leanlifter1 says it is.

Please do research on what is and how the World Reserve Currency works.

At 2/21/14 02:48 PM, orangebomb wrote:

At 2/21/14 02:35 PM, leanlifter1 wrote: Implying that the US is not engaged in corrupt politics, Big Government and damaged economy ? Not to mention that Russia, China, India and Iran are all off the US reserve currency for the buying and selling of oil. Ukraine seems to be in a real pinch but whoring itself out to the US for a figurative bed to sleep in will not fix any problems in the long term.

This has little to do with American politics, if any at all.

It has everything to do with the US so long as the US Dollar is still used as the worlds Reserve Currency. Ukraine has a monumental decision to make in that if they side with Russia they are protected by China. The US is losing it's place as the holder of the world reserve currency and China is making preparations to take over that spot. US has the biggest Military, backing from the world banks and most likely has command over the most Oil reserves in the world. I am talking more about the survival of the Ukraine more than we are debating bull shit politics because I think we can both agree that the US is gearing up for massive war to try and hang onto it's place as a world hegemony.

The only real preference that America would have is if Ukraine joined both the EU and NATO, and both are pretty unlikely to happen at the same time. Even if they do, they will be way behind other countries in terms of support and attention in both Europe and NATO, but at least they don't have to worry so much about being ramroded by Russia anymore if they do join us.

Ass pumped by Russia or the US ? Six is one half dozen the other I presume.

At 2/21/14 09:47 AM, Camarohusky wrote: It's a tough decision. Side with the EU and the dead weight of the Mediterranean countries, or side with Russia with its corrupt politics and shady economy.

Implying that the US is not engaged in corrupt politics, Big Government and damaged economy ? Not to mention that Russia, China, India and Iran are all off the US reserve currency for the buying and selling of oil. Ukraine seems to be in a real pinch but whoring itself out to the US for a figurative bed to sleep in will not fix any problems in the long term.