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At 12/24/08 07:20 AM, RubberTrucky wrote:
Also, how easy is it to put a child up for adoption?
There should be people willing to adopt it, then these people shold be screened wether they're okay, then their probably has to be paid administration fees and the baby should be tested if it's okay and all.
You can get a kid with serious mental illnesses and be stuck to it for the rest of your life. :o

It is fairly easy to put a kid up for adoption it can be pretty difficult to actually adopt depending on the local adoption laws.
As for people willing to adopt once again it can be very difficult to adopt (the easiest way is to actually adopt from the birth mother and skip the state)& a lot of people adopt then realize it is much more difficult than they thought to take care of a kid and send 'em right back.
Also a kid being tested to make sure it is okay sounds to me like you think that the children who need the most help should be raised by the state.
And as for the last part I don't get your point are you saying that if you get a kid with a mental illness you should just send them back to the state, because that sounds pretty fuct up to me.

The pill was shown to be over %99.7 in one study I saw, that was after one year in a continuous monogamous relationship and yes each time you have sex the odds of getting pregnant increases (dumb ass) seriously how stupid are you to not be able to figure that one out.

Tancrisism
You make some a very good point birth control should be used and our children should be educated about it, One thing I would like to see though is state sponsored birth control (no I do not mean eugenic like forced sterilization) But people should be able to get cheap/free birth control.

About birth control being effective it is over %99.9 effective but it has been known to fail before.

Just because I know some one is going to (has) mention adoption as an option You better adopt if you take that position & you better adopt and you better keep the kid till they are 18, I know too many people who have gone through (multiple) failed adoption(s), it just ruins them it's like they can not trust anyone or love anyone either it is just flat out sad.

At 12/24/08 05:49 AM, Tri-Nitro-Toluene wrote: Soft drugs availiable to buy over the counter to anyone over 18.

Hard drugs availiable in ' drug centres' where you go to utilsie the drugs there. ..................................

Only problem with it that I can see would be NIMBY's who won't want the centres in their neighbourhood.

I see one other problem with your plan although it would be a good method of damage controll the cost of operating such a center would cost a lot of money so we would either have to use a lot of tax money or charge so much for the service provided that it would be much cheaper for the patients to get their drugs off the black market. Good Idea though. And it is true we can not eliminate the black market this way but we could deal a blow. Once again good idea just not economically doable.

At 12/24/08 05:56 AM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 12/24/08 05:32 AM, kraor024 wrote:

...............

Same with alcohol.

Sounds good

Psilocybic Mushrooms
One time license requiring education on the drug

................................

I don't even think this is necessary.

I think that people should be required to be educated on the risks of using any hallucinogen even one as mild as mushrooms

Methamphetamine
Legal to purchase after a licensing program including a comprehensive educational course on the drug & a ration system of sales I.E. you can only get X every X days must renew license every 6 months

I understand what you are trying to do with this, and if you are successful all these steps will be so unattractive, ideally, that it will just disappear.

Actually I was just trying for damage control I do see your point though it may be overkill,

What I worry, though, is that steps like this will just make buying it legally so obscenely difficult that it is essentially illegal. Or the people who go through the process to get it legally will end up making it and selling it illegally for a good profit. Then they will be nothing but more protected by the law than they are now - instead of it being a federal problem with a huge and harsh punishment it will be a matter for IRS (who, agreed, are very strict and harsh themselves) due to taxation.

As for the selling it part I should have mentioned something about that before I believe that laws that are in effect now to distribution of a controlled substance should be modified to this new system.

This is because, and this is a fact in capitalism, if there is a profitable way to do something regardless of its legality there will be a market for it. If the laws are too oppressive, a black market will form.

A black market will form regardless the question is how profitable is it and thus how big the black market is.

I think that more people should be shown meth mouth at a very young age, as this has been one of the most effective ways to advertise against it. I still am at a loss as to an effective way to regulate it, though.

I do believe that we should begin drug education early & I don't mean that reefer madness crap we get now but real factual education.

Heroine
Similar to meth but require a doctors "recreational" prescription to better monitor the condition of your health

I would say that meth would want to require this as well.

Agreed

The rationing scheme does not seem to me like it will necessarily be effective due to the problem of ignoring the amount of demand and the supply that inevitably follows creating a black market for it. To me it seems like legalizing it and then implementing a rationing scheme would give it credence in the eyes of the people and society (albeit slowly) while furthering a black market.

You do make a good point I'll have to think about that one. Any suggestions

Tancrisism I would greatly appreciate your opinion on this as you being totally against hard drug legalization makes you one of the best people to criticize it.

I may be currently against it, but I am interested in and open to arguments for it as my views on it could be flawed. I do not hold any personal or emotional biases about it, or if I do I would like to have them exposed to me so they don't cloud my judgment.

I in no way meant to imply that you are closed minded or stubborn on this subject,
I merely meant that as someone who is against any form of legalization you are one of the better people to scrutinize the subject, after all if We can come up with a system that you think is workable then we might actually be able to come up with an idea that could be pulled off. not to mention that in order for such a system to be put in place people who are like minded to you must be convinced it is a good idea.
If only people like minded to myself contributed any idea we came up with clearly would not work.

That is why I appreciate your input on the subject.

At 12/24/08 04:00 AM, dySWN wrote:
How is that different from saying that we should legalize heroin because a few people are willing to risk AIDS-infected needles to get their heroin fix even if it is illegal?

It isn't but you can guess my stance on that issue.

Hopefully what will come of it is a transition to democracy, most likely the military will remain in power for a long time. (at least a decade)
The international response is pretty much what you would expect meaningless denouncements from the AU even more meaningless denouncements from the EU, and the US is pretty much saying we are not in a position to do anything so hope it goes well over there (unless the new leadership gets in our way)

Well since no one has any ideas I guess I'll get the ball rolling how 'bout something like this.

Marijuana
legal to purchase once over the age of 18

Psilocybic Mushrooms
One time license requiring education on the drug

Methamphetamine
Legal to purchase after a licensing program including a comprehensive educational course on the drug & a ration system of sales I.E. you can only get X every X days must renew license every 6 months

Heroine
Similar to meth but require a doctors "recreational" prescription to better monitor the condition of your health

Lysergic Acid Diethylamide
Require comprehensive educational program & licensing license must be renewed frequently and may require psychological evaluation.

Cocaine
licensing, educational program must receive physical/psychological examination every 4 months in order to retain license & a ration system similar to meth.

Any one see any problems? Have better ideas? Any Ideas at all? Come on you have to be able to come up with some thing.
Tancrisism I would greatly appreciate your opinion on this as you being totally against hard drug legalization makes you one of the best people to criticize it.

I am an ex atheist
What made me stop believing well two things really
Number one "Christians" I say "Christians" because I am not talking about real Christians but rather people who call themselves christian but do not follow the teachings the religion holds these people are the people who think that going to church & celebrating Christmas make you a Christian but you can hate your neighbor show no compassion for your fellow man and judge everyone and hold other people lower than themselves, all the while ignoring their own sin. If you would like to see an example of a "Christian" look up VenomFangX on youtube you will see what kind of person I am talking about.

Number two Life, life generally sucked for me as a kid so I found it to be more comforting to believe that their was no god rather than believing god is incredibly cruel.

Topic killer you say.
If I PM you would you be willing to post in specific topics at request?

What makes bad music bad, good question
In my opinion what makes most bad music bad is not that the music is bad it just isn't any good but when a song that is not any good in the first place gets played over and over and everywhere you go you still hear some tasteless moron listening to it, well it gets annoying and you don't want to hear that song ever again for the rest of your life, that is when music goes from not any good to bad.
So I guess commercialization of the music industry is what makes bad music bad.

At 12/24/08 04:04 AM, Tancrisism wrote:

At 12/24/08 03:47 AM, kraor024 wrote:

At 12/24/08 03:40 AM, Tancrisism wrote:

Although I agree that meth & heroine are dangerous drugs I do not believe they should be outlawed.
Maybe (recreational) prescription only or requiring a license but not illegal flat out.

How would this work though? Unless someone removes their addictive traits, I do not think that meth could be regulated. Physical addictions are different from mental addictions, like gambling. And a physical addiction to meth or heroin is much more destructive than one to, say, nicotine. So I am open to suggestion as to how to regulate this type of drug, but I do not have any answers for you due to my position about it.

You do realize that Methamphetamine is no more addictive physically than Caffeine it however is extremely psychologically addicting. ( A friend of mine once said the best thing about meth was waiting for the bag to be delivered)

To be fair as addictive as meth is I do know a few people that use it occasionally once every two weeks or so,( in this town half the population are tweakers,potheads,or alcoholics) I know that legalization is not ideal but the current legal system is far from ideal as well. Besides the current system does not in anyway reduce meth use over %99 of the US population surveyed stated that they would not use hard drugs if they became legal. So legalization would not increase use and when it comes to people being willing to do anything for the drug well anything would become a lot less since the price would drop if it were legal.

I like you have no idea on how it should be regulated hence the thread. I do know that if these drugs wear legal then the do need to be regulated.

Just to add my reasons for legalization it is simple " In a perfect world all drugs would be legal and no one would ever do any of them, it's just about freedom of choice"

I would just like to state my stance
I agree almost entirely with the current laws in the US today with a few exceptions

I would like to see revolving cylinder shotguns removed from class three status
I would like them to reinstate federal background checks
And I would like for all concealed weapons laws to be repealed (overt weapons make people nervous & if you do not commit a crime I see no reason why a concealed gun should be illegal)

Other than that I am happy that you can by a suppressor with an FBI backround check & that you can apply to get a class three (assault) weapon if you have virtually no criminal history and can get approval from your local sheriff, And I am happy that I can get a rifle, handgun, shotgun as long as I don't commit a felony

Join the moderate party or one of the hundreds of other minor parties.

At 12/24/08 03:40 AM, Tancrisism wrote: stuff

I intended this thread to be a discussion of How drugs should be regulated if legalized not if they should be legalized their are at least a hundred threads on that topic already.

Although I agree that meth & heroine are dangerous drugs I do not believe they should be outlawed.
Maybe (recreational) prescription only or requiring a license but not illegal flat out.

At 12/11/08 09:11 PM, xpotatoXmosherx wrote: I think they should be allowed to provide the means of suicide. The person who commits should be willing to do it theirselves. If doctors were given the power to assist directly, then I think that it would be impossible to govern the law fairly. "He told me to!" "Carry on then,". Even if they found a way to monitor this as closely as would be necessary, all that would mean is security cameras in every room, and yet another step towards big brother.

What about patients that are incapable of doing it themselves? Not to mention you would not need security cameras in every room, truth be told you would only need a normal video camera for the patient to record the fact that they want to die, if you think for one second that doctors would just kill people and say that they assisted in a suicide you are an idiot, You would need documentation of the request otherwise it would be murder plane and simple.

Try melatonin it is a hormone necessary for dreaming, It might help induce dreams (my brother swears it helps him function on little sleep but that it causes incredibly vivid dreams)

At 12/24/08 03:05 AM, Sunglasses wrote: The term is Lucid dreaming.

Actually a lucid dream is a dream where you are aware (&thinking) as apposed to a dream in which you have no knowledge of your (mental) surroundings (& do not think) to manipulate a lucid dream would be difficult, I would imagine the first step would be to realize your dreaming. Then to try and control the dream.

At 12/24/08 01:00 AM, dySWN wrote:

At 12/23/08 11:58 PM, kraor024 wrote:

I'm not seeing the analogy here. Besides, I was merely pointing out the flaws in your argument for abortion, not advancing an argument against it myself - I tend to argue these things from a different angle.

Ya I really don't have an easy way to explain it. However I should have mentioned one thing before

My aurgument is not people will do it anyway so let it be legal my aurgument is I would rather see the fetus die than the fetus & the mother, if a women gets an abortion illegally she will put her life at risk, & I would rather the mother not die. It really is that simple I would rather lose one life than two.

At 12/23/08 11:40 PM, dySWN wrote:

At 12/23/08 11:26 PM, kraor024 wrote:

At 12/1/08 09:47 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: What is the difference between a religion and a cult?

Superior definition is superior.

So by definition all religions are cults?

At 12/23/08 11:38 PM, dySWN wrote:

That's not a very solid argument in favor of abortion legalization. People would still kill and steal even in the presence of legal sanctions against such acts, but that doesn't mean that a rational person would want murder and larceny laws dropped simply on account of their inability to prevent every last case of said crimes.

Yeah I was expecting that argument but the point was that all you are doing by criminalizing that act is putting another persons life in danger (the mothers) Look at it this way it is illegal to steal but that does not mean you can rig a shotgun to your doorknob to prevent it. I see no reason to risk another life because you think that abortion is immoral, THAT is like killing every murderer and his brother to prevent murder, it may have limited success but that does not make it right.

At 12/23/08 11:40 PM, leewp wrote: I still find it strange to think that if i said a lemon created the universe, then wrote a book about it that i would soon have a following of people who actually believed it. I mean Ron L Hubbard must have been an atheist because it was all a money scam. To fool weak minded individuals into believing anything to stop them from being scared. And its still working.

Religion is just a story meant to sell a philosophy & a set moral values, If you create a story that includes a creation myth,parables, & an afterlife, if the story is good yes people will believe you, that however does not mean that religion should be ignored and thought of as ridiculous , The main problem with religion is that many people forget the lessons of the story and insist that the story is the point of the religion, that and the general intolerance those people create.

Congress & the senate are relatively calm, I would guess that since most of their actions are the result of bargaining with one another ( I'll vote yeah on this if you vote nah on that). Also filibusters tend to work well to stop anything you don't want to happen.

At 12/23/08 11:25 PM, Deadpan-McSnarky wrote: Few things:
Christianity and Islam aren't at war.

Some Christians/Muslims are at war with each other

In Buddhism, it's not that there is no God, it's that they are willing to believe in any God, since Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion

Actually You are part right Buddhism can be seen as a philosophy or religion depending on how you define religion,
However Siddhartha stated that one should dedicate little effort into religion because it is a distraction from
from oneself & that all gods are trapt in the same cycle of reincarnation that all other living things are.

More good things have been done as a result of religion than bad, but people won't acknowledge that because they'd rather have something to hate.

Could you name some examples because I kinda doubt that?

At 12/1/08 09:47 PM, Conspiracy3 wrote: What is the difference between a religion and a cult?

By definition all cults are religions or sects of a religion

A cult by definition is a group that worships a single personified god.
Or a group that worships a false or unorthodox god.

By many definitions all religions are cults.

I'm going to drop my two cents now, If you think that the women who abort should die then prohibiting abortion is what you should support if you don't think that then you should support abortion being legal.
History has shown that prohibition of any action has never worked no matter how illegal an action is people will still do it, if forced to do it illegally women will put the lives in danger by having an abortion preformed by someone who is not licensed and has no regulatory system or review board watching them to worry about.

If you think abortion is immoral look at it this way the Greeks used to place there unwanted children on a hillside & leave them some would be picked up & sold as slaves but most would die from exposure, at least with the modern system the don't suffer (at least not as much as back then)

I was reading a post on the LEAP (law enforcement against prohibition) and it got me thinking(a rare occurrence I know) I don't believe prohibition works (In all of written history it has never worked)
but if drugs were legalized how should they be regulated. I mean should any adult be able to purchase any drug, or should we use a licensing program like the posted article suggests,or a prescription system?
What are the merits of these systems? What are there faults)

Please discuss.

usual drink
at abar coors or bud (which ever 's cheap) at home King Coba (it's cheap)
favorite
Fat Tire, Sunshine Wheat, & I forget what it is called but a local restaurant brews it & I order it every time I go.
Worst
Bitch Creek & Corona.

At 12/15/08 02:23 AM, Tancrisism wrote:
So we should find the points in the justice system that are flawed and try to fix them. People who are put in prison are put there by juries of their peers. The president shouldn't be able to choose who is freed and who rots regardless of anything.

If nothing else, then, perhaps there should be some sort of congressional and judicial oversight committee watching the presidential pardoning. But it certainly needs altering.

The president in not supposed to have the power to make someone rot, as for the president having the power to set people free........

Some times even the best legal system will fail & lock up or kill someone who doesn't deserve it,
Some one should be able to correct that injustice." I would rather see 100 guilty men go free than 1 punished unjustly" (who said that anyway?)
as for congressional and or judicial oversight, I don't think that would be necessary what is the worst the president can do by pardoning someone? Oversight would really only serve to complicate matters the very idea raises a lot of questions like.....................

Who would be on the oversight committee?
What would be an acceptable pardon?
How would the committee investigate pardons?

I blacked out under water once, does that count?