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At 8/24/07 08:39 AM, TheReno wrote: Depends on your definition of lie. I say its a misinturpretation of the truth, usually to satisfy ones need of being right or to avoid trouble. And youve been doing that all down the front page.

well we'll see how misinterpreted the truth is fifty years from now. im not trying to lie myself out, im trying to make you more aware of whats happening. like i said, disprove one thing i said, then we will talk about lying.

At 8/24/07 08:36 AM, Pheidippides wrote:

big block of shit

Then how do you explain these?

its bullshit thats how i explain it. the ice caps arent fucking growing, and walking does not contribute to global warming more than driving WAT THE FUCK. just think about that man. sea levels are rising. thats a fact. this could only happen if the caps were melting. dont even get me started on the walking versus driving contributing to green house gasses.

At 8/24/07 08:23 AM, Drakim wrote:
I'd say, just as normal organisms. One the life is made, there is really no way to detect if it is cloned (unless your cloning method is ineffective). Why make an issue about if they should be treated diffrently? The result, if not the method, is exactly the same as for example twins.

well if clones were to be used for experimentation like reno said, it brings up controversey. whats the point of cloning if you are just going to put them into the world as a person? its just going to be a shit load of orphans. and sex is a much more enjoyable and easier way to increase population. the incentive to human cloning is to create "test dummies" and organ farms. so there is the issue of creating a human life, albeit an artificial one, and then not giving it any choice as to whether it gets its organs taken out or if it is used for neurological experimantation, etc things that we would never do to regular people w/out consent. i think, if given the choice, most clones would say no, assuming they can think and talk for themselves. this brings us back to previous issue... whats the point then?

At 8/24/07 08:20 AM, Drakim wrote: Cloning doesn't need to be about cloning humans. It could be something as simple as this:

You discover that you have a bad heart, and is going to die in a few months. Instead of waiting in line for a heart transplant (which there isn't nearly enough hearts for the demand), you'd just give a small sample of skin or something, and science would clone you a new heart! :D

you need to clone an entire human to get an organ. you cant just pick and choose unless you use stem cells, which is a whole other debate topic so lets not get started on that.

At 8/24/07 07:57 AM, Drakim wrote:
We already allow test-tube babies, which are for all purposes "grown in a lab".

But, tell me, as this is part of what the topic is about. What exactly is the cost to humanity and nature?

why do we get to dictate the life of another human simply because its a clone? right to life say many conservatives, no abortion. what about cloning? dont they too have a right to choose their life and what they do? just because they are artificial, doesnt mean they arent human. how do you dictate rights for cloned organisms?

At 8/24/07 07:51 AM, TheReno wrote:

For Human cloning, if your willing to stretch your morals a bit, we could study the human brain alot better. We could test alot of thing. In general we can find out so many things about us humans that normally we couldnt due to inhumane treatment. Thats why clonings my friend.

so clones dont get rights? theres more to it that what you are saying. its an ethical battefield. what if clones dont want to be subjected to tests? do they have a choice? if not, is that right?

At 8/24/07 07:45 AM, TheReno wrote:

At 8/24/07 07:38 AM, kloneone wrote:

At 8/24/07 07:14 AM, TheReno wrote:
Just explain this then. How have we fucked up the earth so bad? Look at how long we have been on the earth. Not that long compared to how long the earth has existed. We may have harmed the earth but not to the degree in which your saying we did.

rent this movie it might just blow your mind

I didnt ask what manbearpig thought, I asked what you thought on how we fucked earth so bad. Besides Ive seen the movie, or parts of it. I did try to watch it but I couldnt stop laughing. A serious al gore is a funny al gore.

i can only explain this so many times man. dont you notice a difference between animals and humans? its our abitilty to spawn our own constructs and machines. these machines have progressed at breakneck speeds. a hundred years ago we were still riding horses for transport. we now have the ability to travel out of the atmosphere. we used to use muzzle loading guns, now we have MP5s and Barret rifles. in this age human population rises by 211,090 people EVERY DAY. it doesnt matter that we are an insignificant blip on earths history. we have such a mass effect with everything destructive that we do. the human species developes EXPONENTIALLY. the more technology we develope, the faster we develope. i cant quite get across the enormity of the human race. just think of how many cars you see everyday. there are cars all over the world. these cars produce exhaust, which contains CO2. this is not terrible, but on the scale of the human race it is an incredible amout of gas. the CO2 enters the atmosphere, and since it holds heat it creates a greenhouse effect on the earth, which keeps the suns energy bouncing around in our atmosphere. this makes everything hotter aka global warming. the cars are only one aspect, but i think it is the easiest to understand. if that doesnt answer your question google it i am done giving global warming lessons.

bush needs to upgrade to tree :)

id say cloning is what you would call a forbidden experiment. sure its great and amazing but at what cost to humanity and nature? there is something unnatural about a life form grown in a genetics lab. its not quite the same as a creature that is born and has a mother of its own kind to nurture and care for it. i dont know about plants i have mammals in mind when i say that.

At 8/24/07 07:14 AM, TheReno wrote:
Just explain this then. How have we fucked up the earth so bad? Look at how long we have been on the earth. Not that long compared to how long the earth has existed. We may have harmed the earth but not to the degree in which your saying we did.

rent this movie it might just blow your mind

fuck a bro hoe sounds like a fake ass identity issue for attention.

uh its ok i guess. his arms look ridiculously thin though.

you should draw something original.

At 8/24/07 06:39 AM, TheReno wrote:

At 8/24/07 06:33 AM, kloneone wrote:

At 8/24/07 05:30 AM, TheReno wrote: I know its a bit off topic but I keep seeing the Hippie tree hugger saying that the Ice age will come from global warming and it confuzed me. Thanks.

go google it if you cant keep up.

I will admit the hippie tree hugger was a bit mean of me to say but no reason for you to be a complete jack ass. Least I got the guts to ask questions when I dont fully understand something. Unlike you who will just try to lie his ass out of a situtation.

lol im all facts u beezy ass foo. prove that one thing i have said in this thread is not true, besides things i have corrected already like the 99% endangered species shit. asking that question just proves how ignorant you are. if you didnt know that then you really shouldnt have been debating in the first place. you are amateur.

At 8/24/07 03:26 AM, fahrenheit wrote:

And I quote:

many species have gone extinct yea but not at the rate of todays world.

Nowhere did you state anything about humans.

todays world equals humans and modern technology stop looking for holes in my defence its really annoying.

How so?

we can only focus on so many species at a time. while we are saving one, another is being threatened and endangered.

If the heart beats, the mind thinks, and the body moves, its alive.

im talking more in an ethical sense. sure it will be alive, but will it really LIVE life like a wild animal should and not just be some clone in a cage without survival skills.

You can say the same thing about babies.

yea no shit but babies are humans. they are OUR children, not the offspring of a wild animal.

would you like to be cloned and controlled your whole life by robots? because thats the equivalent.

Did you not see what I said? They're trying to bring back endangered species, but as long as people want to buy expensive things that contain rare animal parts there will always be poachers.

is it worth cloning and raising minimal numbers in captivity? is that really better than extinction? if they cant function in the biosphere and survive in the wild then they are little more than pets. a shadow of the wild beast it used to be.

And people like you are the reason I'm pro choice.

wtf you assume too much stop talkin shit beez im pro choice too.

Like bacteria right?

yes bacteria needs those things too. all life does.

Nature doesnt give a fuck what I want.

whats happening to nature isnt natural. its not like there isnt anything you can do, even on a simple day to day basis, to do your part in reversing what generations before you have done.

This is like arguing with a disallusioned 7 year old girl.

dont peg girls. and thats funny because this IS arguing with a disillusioned 16 year old.

Way to prove a point

thanks

Evidence? You seem to think that the earths natural state is the one it currently is in, well guess what it isnt. Life can survive if the whole world was a desert or an ocean, thinking that humans cause such a great amount of damage, and not only that but can preserve our natural world as it is, is just so wrong that it can only be said as.
No, just no. Now sit down and stop talking.

i dont think the earths current state is natural, if i did why would i be so concerned about all these issues? and if humans are so harmless, who the fuck do you think is the number one contributer to global warming? surprise its humans! our cars, our factories, our oil, GREEN HOUSE GASSES. CO2 HOLDS HEAT. we produce it in such vast quantities that plants cant convert it to O2 fast enough. it fills the atmosphere a lot more than it should. and if all of earth was a desert WHERE WOULD THE WATER BE YOU DUMB SHIT? life needs water just like you said. stop fucking contradicting yourself and go get your facts strait.

so why dont you STAND UP and GTFO this topic of which you know so little.

At 8/24/07 05:30 AM, TheReno wrote: I know its a bit off topic but I keep seeing the Hippie tree hugger saying that the Ice age will come from global warming and it confuzed me. Thanks.

go google it if you cant keep up.

At 8/15/07 01:36 AM, Stamper wrote: Real good shit all around.

thanks stamper glad you like my stuff.

At 8/23/07 10:27 PM, fahrenheit wrote: Well there was the comet that killed the dinosaurs, the ice age, and hundreds of huge volcanoes. And out of all of them, we're the only ones that try to stop it.

wtf are you kidding me? the ice age and the comet happened before humans existed.

Uncontrollable rate? We've brought hundreds of species back from endagerment, and with genetic engineering we can ensure no animal will go extinct.

yea we have brought some back but at the expense of of more. sure genetic engineering but is that right? is that life? to be facilitated and produced by someone else? to say that killing real animals in the wild is ok because we have tissue samples and genetic code? how will these cloned animals survive if thats what we do? how will they live their life like they were supposed to? animals in captivity cannot create an ecosystem.

Recover? And what exactly should it recover to? This state? This type of weather?

you are stupid. it should recover from loosing pieces of its ecosystem. (extinct species)

You people disgust me, thinking that just because the world we live in now is pretty and not dangerous its the earths natural weather state. Have you ever stopped to think that life can survive on other forms of weather? I know I sound cliche but life will always survive as long as we water exists.

lol you dont even know what you are talking about. life needs not only water, but food, and shelter. would you rather live in a fucking ice age then how the planet is today? if yes then what will you eat? where is water if its all ice? where will you live in sub zero temperatures?

You are so deep into your own ass that instead of actually committing to the argument you take pride in the fact that you watch the news and pay attention to what tom dylan on the news says anyone that disagrees with you is ignorant and/or in denial.

Get over yourself.

seems like im committing to the argument pretty well. and fuck you, i dont watch the fucking news, and i dont know who tha fuck tom dylan is so why dont you cut the smartass facade and stop bitching. bring in some useful ideas or some evidence.

if you think this all comes from the news you are proving your own ignorance.

At 8/23/07 04:00 PM, TheReno wrote:

At 8/23/07 03:29 PM, chaoticnuteral wrote: endangered species matter wat if pandas or tigers died. they are some cool animals and they are endangered

If they died off. Id still be alive. Thats what matters. In this world you got to survive. Thats I I hate having to bend my will so a stupid owl may live and breed. Screw the bird. Screw endangered species. Other animals dont so why should I?

that owl is part of a system that you are too young and ignorant to understand. you have the power and the choice to kill or preserve that animal. the owl is not so lucky in its options. as a human you need to take responsibility for the ecosystem that you are a part of and destroying. we all need to make an effort.

At 8/23/07 04:52 PM, Pheidippides wrote:

Funny how you pick on the one that involves alternative energy.

why is that funny?

You global warming people are always stressing the importance of alternative energy.

Like I said, psychological. It doesn't mean we won't have the ability to carry on with our lives.

i never said we would all die. but living would just be that much harder if it was extinct.

I know, life is only easy because bald eagles aren't extinct.

im not a global warming person. alternative energy is not as important as sustainable development. we need to figure out a solution that doesnt require new enery, just a better and more efficient way of using what we have already.

At 8/23/07 06:03 PM, fahrenheit wrote:

At 8/23/07 02:56 PM, kloneone wrote: a few species? around 1/3 of all amphibious species known to man have gone exticnt since they were discovered.

Yes, and 99% of existed animals have gone extinct. And if you dont understand that, it means out of the earths timeline, 99% of every animal species that ever was, has gone extinct. Humans probably caused .00001 of that extinction.

none of you understand what is going on with the planet right now. many species have gone extinct yea but not at the rate of todays world. extinction is natural, and isnt a problem as long as the biosphere has time to adjust and compensate. what humans are doing is speeding up extinction and habitat loss at an uncontrollable rate. this, combined with global warming and other factors is creating a situation from which the earths ecosystem can not recover from quickly enough. it will end in badly if we do nothing to stop it. the eagle is just like an analogy, or an example... just on a smaller scale. you are the kind of people who will be asking BUT WHY? when earth starts to collapse into an iceage... well now you know. you can ignore and deny it as long as you want, but eventually it will be a reality.

At 8/23/07 09:19 AM, El-Presidente wrote:

At 8/5/07 10:40 PM, kloneone wrote: Heres some of my art. I'm curious to know what you think. Feel free to post your own stuff if its graff related.
Sorry the quality is not that great.

What exactly does it say. Im guessing its just a design since I can't tell at all what the hell it says. I think that you should do one with your name and make it your sig. That would be awesome.

everything says klone, or klones. i never do random designs. the exceptions are peoples names that they asked me to do for them like the drawing up higher on this page in red says sarah. otherwise everything is my name.

i hope we arent stupid enough to start another war. im also hoping bush will be out of office before any decisions can be made.

its freedom of speech. so if you want to knock the first amendment then good luck.

At 8/23/07 08:59 AM, LabBattle wrote: Im not a sources guy, but, prove it, what endangered species makes up 99% of our diet, show me one that makes up 1% of our diet?

ok so i exaggerated on the 99%. but seriously cows and pigs and chickens are such a small fraction. think about it like this: how many different species of plants and animals live in the U.S. borders? whatever the number is, its big. the afore mentioned animals are three species. out of millions, probably more. the food chain isnt just what us as humans eat and keep as livestock.

Really, that much harder, it would be sad, but i dont think ill be crying myself to sleep about it.

its just a pattern thats all. and if it continues, then yea, you should cry.

At 8/23/07 02:14 PM, TheReno wrote: Lol. Frankly I hate the Endangered species act. It disrupts too many lives. You'll understand what I mean if you bought property and want to build a house on it but wait. You cant! Endangered species. Lol. Besides blady is just a symbol. Just like the pot leaf I mean Maple leaf on the canadian flag. We could use a better one. Seriously we can live with out certain species. Now when the cow gets put on the list then Ill start to give a crap. But until then who cares lol.

a few species? around 1/3 of all amphibious species known to man have gone exticnt since they were discovered. this is the warning sign. amphibious animals go first since they are the most delicate animals, and absorb stuff through their skin, such as toxins, and pollutants. how many animals and plants support a cows life? how many animals and plants support the things that support a cow? this web grows and continues exponentially and is obviously too vast a concept for you too grasp. the number one reason for the endangerment of the bald eagle is HABITAT DESTRUCTION. they dont have property limitations for no reason. think of it like this... is building your house worth the national symbol of america? not only that but it is just one of the many amazing animals that live here on earth. dont you think they deserve a better chance to live?

the only reason we went into iraq was for oil.

At 8/23/07 08:25 AM, Pheidippides wrote: Oh really? And what does the other 99% come from? Rare endangered species?

yes.

Funny how you pick on the one that involves alternative energy.

why is that funny?

Like I said, psychological. It doesn't mean we won't have the ability to carry on with our lives.

i never said we would all die. but living would just be that much harder if it was extinct.

At 8/23/07 07:57 AM, gaine1 wrote:

At 8/13/07 08:22 PM, kloneone wrote:

At 8/13/07 07:50 PM, HahaBears wrote: holy poop, very awesomely faaantastic! Go tag somethin and take a pic of it please

lol i will probly. its a lil harder though.

with my fukin posca shit bring that shit maybe to like the movies

yea we needa go before school starts. ELEVATORS CUTTY SHIT!

At 8/23/07 07:49 AM, gaine1 wrote: lol camera fone

LOL hell yea ghetto as fuck