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Yeah, I figured as much, the real question is why any self respecting demolitions team would go into an unsafe building to safely demolish a structure. And of course the most reasonable answer is that they went in when it was safe, about the time that the security and maintanence team switch. I missed the security team switch, but I'm pretty proud of myself for having nailed the maintanence part.

Shrike posed an open ended question (most likely rhetorical) about the catchiness of the title "The Moderator's Lounge". Thus this got my synapses firing about how cool it would be to have an actual lounge. The actual reference to my house in particular was to illustrate that it was not an internet lounge, but a room. But the more I hear about it the better it sounds. And of course smoking jackets would be required to be worn. I think when I get a house of my own, I'm gonna have to put one of those in.

It makes sense that members of another country's ruling class would be allowed to leave during an emergency, I don't see why the administration would try to down play it.

This is an interesting topic. No matter what the posted sign is, the rural towns will always bust you for pretty much any speeding violation, regardless of whether or not there's an accepted about of leeway built into the system. The reason is because rural towns generally don't get much in the way of income, and a speeding ticket is money in the bank.

I think it's pretty much the nature of mankind to test its boundaries. More often than not, we bend the rules, simply to bend them. The same is true with the speed limit, in my opinion. People tend to assume that the speed limit is not only the recommended speed, but also tend to go about 5 above. I think this is well in keeping with the thought that it is the tendency of people to do things all the way up to the limits that are specified and to go a little beyond.

No, I meant for my house man. I was talking about actual lounges in general. I'd hate to be a moderator.

Great post klaus, excellent support. Those heat signature reports are pretty solid evidence. Jet fuel can get pretty hot, but of course not enough to justify a complete collapse of a structure of this size. I'll tell you one thing I found strange. The tower that was last to go stayed up for a little while and then just crumbled. Now, it seems that this could have been a result of massive internal structural damage. A fail-safe system, such as having the building rigged with explosives would have done the trick in much the same way. I guess the way to really look into a conspiracy theory would be to check up on "maintanence checks" that occured reasonably close to the time of the attack. It would be pretty obvious if a demolition team just popped in and started laying out wire and explosives everywhere, but a maintence team probably would have been pretty good cover to go between floors and plant explosives. It's still hard to tell at this point. I mean pretty much all the information you're bound to get about the actual occurances are going to be scewed one way or the other, but a demolition as a fail safe for the actual attack is a viable solution. (and I mention the need for cover not simply by an outside force, if this was in fact an act perpetrated by the US government, the same scenario probably would have applied)

Thanks for getting me on that one Prune, didn't really feel like having to do it myself.

While I would tend to support that, geez man, that's pretty cruel and unusual. Can't we just crucify em a little?

Right. It's hard to tell whether or not it was the plane or something else. It's not like we can inspect the frame to see what's wrong. If it is a conspiracy, that's what makes it a good one, not much evidence now.

Oh man, I saw a disgusting piece on something similar to that on the Discovery Channel. There was this kid that worked at a convenience store. The owner thinks he's a thief, blam, blows half of his skull apart with a .357 magnum. The kid survived and only recently had reconstructive skull surgery. He only had 3/4 of a skull. There was an enormous indention in the side of his head that ran the whole depth of his head to nearly half way across his forehead, it was sick.

The loss of structural integrity wasn't from the entire frame melting, or even a significant portion. That was just an example of how hot the explosion got. The lack of structural integrity could have come from an airliner doing a solid 500 knots plus.

Gang rape is a disgusting crime. I don't know about 50 years. There has to have been something else.

At 7/19/04 11:05 PM, Spookshow wrote: What passage?

Okay, Genesis 6:2 "The sons of God saw the daughters of men were fair and they took wives for themselves from all whom they chose." In this sons of God is a reference to angels, and to back it up, we move to Job 1:6, 2:1, and 38:7.

Job 1:6 states "Then one day, when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehova, Satan also came among them." These sons are angels, how can we tell? Job 1:7 continues "And Jehova said to Satan, Where have you come from? And Satan answered Jehova and said, From roving the earth and going about in it." The Nephilim have no place in heaven, as they are creatures of the earth. If Satan had just got BACK from the earth, then shouldn't the Nephilim be there and not in heaven? Adam never held meetings with God in the heavensbefore the fall and thus the Nephilim could never do the same.

Job 2:1 says exactly the same as 1:6 and 2:2 is same as 1:7

Job 38:7 says "When the morning stars sang together/ And all the sons of God shouted for joy?" The name Lucifer, Satan's name as an angel means morning star, thus morning stars here refer to angels, and since sons of God here also refer to the same creature, when we solve for one, we get both.

So that's my basis for saying fallen angels had unholy unions with the women of the time. And nowhere in the Bible does it say that angels don't have dicks. Contrary to popular belief "Dogma" isn't the Bible.

In the Old Testament, the sons of God are the angels. However, in the New Testament, Son of God refers to something rather different. I think I expounded on that earlier, so I'll take my benefit of the doubt.

The Lounge. Man, that makes me want to have a lounge to sit in with a smoking jacket out, smoking cigars and talking football with the guys. Damn, that would make one hell of a room.

And klaus, in no way am I saying that the building couldn't also have been crippled by demolition charges, it's just that it's kind of ridiculous to say that a jumbo jet can't inflict massive stuctural damage on a building.

Oh and klaus, I already mentioned that it is not as easy as pressing a button to hit the towers, and that I did exagerate some. However, I mentioned landing on carriers because carrier landings are among the most difficult things to do in an aircraft, be it a fighter or not. Landing a fighter on a carrier is a lot easier than crashing a jumbo jet into a building. The kamikaze reference was to point out that people could hit moving targets, and this could be seen as easier to do in a Zero than a jumbo jet, I believe that flying a fighter plan into a frigate that is trying to evade would be harder than flying into one of the most massive man made structures on earth. Oh, and the quip about people getting flying lessons to avoid buildings was a joke, I, too, think it takes more than a novice pilot to crash something into a building of choice. But judging by the fact that the planes did not hit the building at really optimal points seemed to suggest that they were not extremely precise attacks anyway.

The exploding jet fuel did melt the girders, that is undeniable, the fact that an airplane can create a large hole in a building does not mean that the entire cavity it created was filled with fire. It is purely logical that there were people who survived the initial blast, simply by virtue of the fact that they weren't engulfed by fire. Are you trying to suggest that there weren't a number of people that were engulfed by fire? You are completely right that the fire that was started was generally low temperature. I never suggest that lit jetfuel alone will melt steel, that is preposterous. However, the initial explosion created massive amounts of heat due to the intense pressure. That was no candle. The fires inside also burned a great deal of trapped people alive, I don't think having wet clothes would have helped much.

Woah, now that is simply speculation on your part. A hydrogen bomb does not ignite hydrogen. It actually utilizes the power created by a fusion reaction between two fusion molecules, NOT the combustion of hydrogen which occurs when hydrogen gas and oxygen combine to form water. In other words, a Hydrogen Bomb is a Thermonuclear bomb, which, is far more powerful than an Atomic bomb which merely splits a uranium or plutonium atom by creating a runaway nuclear reaction. Are you sure that what happened on 9/11 was a nuclear strike that leveled a number of city blocks?

Lol! You're talking about what I was talking about when the fallen angels were making babies with humans during Noah's day. And your reasoning is fundamentally flawed. Mary did have children with Joeseph after Jesus was born, and the children were perfectly normal (at least it probably would have mentioned them being giants). The Bible specifically mentions Jesus' siblings, although they aren't really mentioned much, because they don't really play a very large role.

Socialism could never work in a country as large as the United States. It works fine for small societies (and I mean small villages), but when you approach the metropolis scale, things become much more complicated. It is quite possible to have a socialist society on such a scale, but would require a lot of effort. The state level would be impossible, and trying a utopian socialism on the scale of a country as large as the US would be like trying to make a bridge over the Pacific. The amount of energy required simply to get everyone to simply sign up to volunteer for anything would be feat worth recognition. As far as governments go, the democracy is the most feasible way to be run by as much of the population as possible.

Oh yeah, and I think it's tough for anyone to prove that Fascism is a good choice overall.

I've seen the video recently to verify it didn't do anything crazy. The turning radius was well within a jetliner's capability. And what does a plane having a hollow passenger space have to do with being able to explode? Those planes were international flights that were almost completely topped off with fuel, and that happens to be plenty of fuel. And anything compusting inside a pressurized container, such as the fuel compartments of a plane, will explode violently, especially something as volatile as jet fuel and even more so when there is a massive volume of it. And don't make this a personal argument, especially since you likened gallons of blazing jetfuel to a candle that you could "wet your clothes and run in the middle" of. I could turn your credibility anywhere but loose with that, but I'll leave it alone, we'll just call it "exaggeration."

And who can forget this jewel from the Simpsons:

"Buddha: I got yo badge numbah, you better hope they neva let me out!"

Lol, reminds me of some kind of a cop movie.

You caught me, I exaggerated. It is not as easy to make it out to be. Those big jetliners handle like beached whale. That still doesn't make it a difficult job for someone with intermediate experience. Especially when the targets are so enormous.

It's not basic arithmatic, I agree. But when guns are less available, then the casual criminal will have a hard time getting their hands on one. However, the casual criminal also does not have the cahones to shoot up a bank. Anybody really serious about getting armed can easily get the firepower they need. Limiting the supply of guns, in turn, only ends up keeping them out of the hands of people who want to protect their family but aren't keen on going through a bunch of crap to get a gun.

I agree that treason is punishable by death sure. But my point was that simply being a deserter will not merit cheap brain surgery. You're absolutely right that, in some cases, going AWOL can be treason, I won't dispute that.

At 7/19/04 09:38 PM, Quanze13 wrote: Funk, no matter how many ppl on the regs board hate your modship, i love you. Alot. W00t! Bush is the antichrist!!

I see the sarcasm is lost on you.

And besides, why do I care what you got on the SAT when you were 12? Why does anybody?

At 7/19/04 08:40 PM, Devaint_Lucifer wrote: a plane explosion would look kind of like a candle flame you could wet your clothes and run in the middle

with a bomb the force would knock you back

Thier is no human with the abilities to turn and piolet a jumbo jet like the plane did on 9/11.
proving its not a plane but a missle.

Please don't tell me that you actually believe any of that. There is no dispute that a mass of several tons of jet fuel will not only burn you if you have wet clothes on, it will have the capacity to melt steel girders. Additionally, what do you think happens when all of that jet fuel ignites at once in a pressurized compartment? It explodes quite violently. Don't believe me? Throw a match at a fuel pump and tell me how much that knocks you back, and that's weak ass gasoline, jet fuel is far more volatile.

And are you telling me that hitting a huge building like the WTC is harder than doing a carrier landing? Do you have any clue how much smaller the margin of error is when landing on a carrier than hitting a building? People get flying lessons to avoid hitting buildings, a building is probably the easiest target to hit. Kamekazi pilots in WW2 were able to hit smaller targets that the WTC on a regular basis, it takes no skill. So when you mean that there is no human alive that was able to do that, I hope to God you mean every human.

At 7/19/04 09:37 PM, Thanatos_DTH1 wrote: And for the record, I love my country, I just hate all the idiots that live here.

And there sure are a lot of em.

Wow, going AWOL punishable by death? News to me.

The point I'm trying to make is that Noah and his family are the only ones who survived the flood. The Bible never stated that Goliath was super human, it just stated that he was a big guy. In fact, the biggest guy the Philistines had. I just don't see how being big makes someone a Nephilim.