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Yes, Proteas, but once Godlessness is the norm nobody will discuss it anymore. I don't know a singe atheist who has discussed atheism with another atheist unless there's a religious person involved.

Once everybody's Atheist, the concept of a God will become so laughable that nobody will discuss it.

For example, when have you even seen a group of people come together to discuss how they all agree that unicorns don't exist?

Teaches you skepticism of authority.

Solution-

Go to Gym.

Learn to bench 225.

Get hair cut short.

Nobody will ever bother you again.

The 10 commandments are useful whether God exists or not? Dude, have you even read them? How are the 4 first commandments relevant at all if God doesn't exist?

Well, I was more referring to the last 6 Commandments, which people pay much more attention to anyway.

Yes, yes we are simillar to animals when it comes to basic structure such as bones n muscle, brain and other parts are alot more advanced, same creator, same basic design n we have many many different designs that are found in different creatures also in which I don't attribute to an evolutionarry standpoint but that is beside the point n the discussion.

Well, we are certainly a lot more advanced. A mouse must feel the same way about ants. I don't think our human 'spirit', as it will, is anything more than an advanced intellect.

Yes some problems can only be soved with violence meaning when a person's life is in imediate danger, its not done for the greater good, its done out of survival which is every human being's right, what isn't however is any other act of violence for anything other than sel defense, when a poor person steals food they mat be doing it for a cause other than themselves but that doesn't make it right, what would be more acceptable would be that the person accepts what they've done as wrong and feels remorse and tries to overcome it so they wont feel the need to do it again, agree?

I agree with you on this, if the person can accept that what they did was wrong and try not to fall under circumstances that would have them do the same thing again, all the better for them.

Ofcourse no one is truly a purely evil person but I suppose what I'm going off as I call acts of evil are the 10 commandments, everything the oposite of what God is and wants is seen as evil because he is the..... well hes God lol

Well, I'm an atheist, but I can agree. The 10 Commandments are very simple laws, so simple rthey are barely even tied to religion. They are definitely a good moral code to live by, whether or not God exists.

I'm not one to try and justify my actions just because I don't want to feel bad for doing bad things or have an excuse, hell even when I kill a little insect I feel a lil bad about it 8/

Sometimes we have to justify our actions, otherwise we go mad with guilt. But if you over justify, you're just setting yourself up for more wrongdoing.

But killing is always wrong, it sometimes may be the only answer to save yourself or others, the point is that you must realize that you've done something wong that you should never do, if somone thought that killing was right in certain situations then they would most likely be killing people on accident thinking they were going to try and harm other people....same with the soldiers in other countries, but with them theyre trained to kill and their morals are stripped away from them, thats part of the reason there has been alot of suicides and nervous breakdowns there

It depends on where you draw the end of the line for morality at. Killing is always wrong at the time of the death, and always BAD no matter what, but is it still wrong if the benefits of the death outweigh the taking of a life? I suppose it depends on whether you judge something based on its own merit or based on the results of the action.

Exactly! Hitler did HORRIBLE things with the best intentions in mind, some of the worst things are done with the best intentions, but that doesn't make it right, I think you've got the idea now XD

Exactly, but it's right in their mind. The question is what is right to everybody.

That is exactly what I'm saying, along with the manipulation of religion and other such things, the grasp on right n wrong has somewhat been lost in some people.
And the part about killing a child to save her mother, I would think the mother would be expected to gladly give her life to save her daughter's, but thats just me, its not me to decide on whether somone should value another's life over their own, but you've gotta admit that giving your life to save another's is like the epitome of good I'm sure we can agree on that.

Morals are slipping away pretty quickly, but I suppose that's always been a problem. A hundred years ago, even a thousand years ago we still had amoral people, we just pay more attention to the ones nowadays. The only time I can think of when morals were rock steady was back in the fifties in America. Unfortunately, that stability came with the side effect of intolerance.

As for the mother and daughter thing, that's what I'm saying. It's a tough choice.

hmmm, i feel pretty good about this convorsation 8)

Harmonix-

Head CEO- 'Let's get some ideas.'

Game Development Head- 'I think what our audience wants is a metal band.'

CEO- 'Excellent! Which band do you have in mind?'

GDH- 'There's been some debate, but I think we should do some Iron Maiden.'

CEO- 'What will you do with this plan?'

GDH- 'We'll release 12 of their best songs to download for two dollars each.'

CEO- 'BRILLIANT!'

Activision-

Head CEO- 'Let's get some ideas.'

Game Development Head- 'I think what our audience wants is a metal band.'

CEO- 'Excellent! Which band do you have in mind?'

GDH- 'There's been some debate, but I think we should do some Iron Maiden.'

CEO- 'What will you do with this plan?'

GDH- 'We'll release 'Guitar Hero Iron Maiden!'

CEO- 'BRILLIANT!'

GDH- 'In case you weren't aware sir, I'm retarded.'

CEO- 'Don't worry, I am as well.'

HYUK HYUK HYUK

Human nature, I suppose. Animals generally have to be violent to gain control in social circles. However, now that our methods of gaining power in society are not (usually) directly linked to violence, it's an unfortunate trait that we still have.

Thought i don't agree with your saying humans are animals, I agree that violence has been a very poor way for people to get what they want, violence by the way in all cases is used when somone wants something but doesn't get it, from a poor person stealing food to a rich person shooting a cop who saw him doing crack to a government official having somone assassinated. Instead of taking the high road which would be the smartest because if your intentions are for good and your means nonviolent then there shouldn't be any reason people wont agree and thus no reason to use violence, so violence can be confidently deemed as wrong right?

Well, humans are animals, we are biologically and physiologically the same as them. Obviously humans have a quality that are lacking, maybe not a soul per say, but some quality. I agree that violence is wrong, or at least in most cases. Some problems can only be solved with violence, as unfortunate as it is, but I suppose as long as it's for the greater good, it's excusable. I can understand how a poor person might want to steal food, I guess that's more of a grey area.

What the shopkeeper did was a very nice thing, and proves that we can someday have a brighter future.

I don't actually think anybody does what they do because they're evil, or because they just hate goodness. I think everybody, in their minds, is somehow attributing their actions to supporting some cause.

Well thats up to the person doing the actions i suppose, what they choose to justify it with, but does anything ever justify violence? Sure if your life were threatened or somone else's life were threatened n you decided to defend yourself and ended up either seriously injuring or killing the other person, would that make your act of violence right? My opinion, ofcourse not, violence is wrong, but the justification that your life or another's was in danger sort of nutralizes it a bit, you feel bad that you had to resort of violence and that you hurt/killed another person.... (I really hope you wouldn't enjoy killing somone in any situation).

Well, it all really revolves around the concept of righteousness. Killing is always bad, but it's not always wrong. If you have to kill to save lives, while the killing itself is still apprehensible, the fact that they were doing it for a good reason sort of balances it out. It's a very sticky situation, and it's very susceptible to the slippery slope.

That being said, I don't really think anybody is EVIL. Nobody really ever does bad things for the hell of it, everybody tries to justify their actions somehow, even if it's in the most greedy and selfish way. Hitler killed millions of people indirectly, but he did it for the good of Germany. That doesn't make what he did RIGHT, but it does mean that he wasn't a Bond villain.

No, I understand what you are saying. I'm a generally optimistic person, almost to the point of stupidity. I, whenever I can, try to help the people around me.

lols

The one problem is that, as humans, flawed creatures, we aren't always sure what is truly right and what is truly wrong.

Well I'm sure we have a pretty good idea of right n wrong, if I hit you in the head with a sludghammer that wouldn't be good would it? lols (i wouldn't do that though)
"flawed creatures"? ....(shrugs) maybe, but this is what we are...( I don't think I would call free will a flaw or maybe that not what you mean...)

Free will isn't a flaw, but we are flawed. We certainly aren't perfect. We fight and we curse and we kill. And we don't always know what's right. Some of us may have a general idea, but is it, say, right to kill a 3-year old to save her mother? I don't know. Police officers and soldiers are often racked with a guilty conscience because they may not have done the best thing.

At 6/4/09 09:31 PM, Shaggytheclown17 wrote: http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1067 367

sorry I forgot to put the link in lol

Well I was thinking that our conversation would last weeks and span God, religion, science, history, and every debatable topic there is, to try to come to an armistice.

Guys, if you aren't going to even be optimistic, then just step back and let me have a shot. You aren't helping.

Shaggy, please only respond to me. They're just getting in the way of a potentially rewarding situation.

Its not that I can't have a respectful conversation, its that I never get a respectful response.....

I am absolutely willing to give respectful responses, so long as we can both agree not to start insulting one another.

Here I'll start one with you....

Grammer, I'm wondering what you think about all the crime n hate in this world, what do you suppose the cause of it all is?

Human nature, I suppose. Animals generally have to be violent to gain control in social circles. However, now that our methods of gaining power in society are not (usually) directly linked to violence, it's an unfortunate trait that we still have.

My opinion is that it is caused by a lack of obiediance to the law and a hatred of good, sure some crime is done with good intentions such as a guy robbing a gas station to feed his family, but that doesn't make it right at all, I actually heard of this happening, the guy tried to rob a gun store n the owner pulled out a big shotgun n the robber apologized and said he was trying to feed his family, n the shopkeeper gave him 40$ n a loaf of bread lol, rather than shoot him or call the police he decided to help him although the man meant to steal n possibly harm him, I think what the shopkeeper did was a very generous act....

What the shopkeeper did was a very nice thing, and proves that we can someday have a brighter future.

I don't actually think anybody does what they do because they're evil, or because they just hate goodness. I think everybody, in their minds, is somehow attributing their actions to supporting some cause.

The moral of the story is that acts of evil can be stopped or prevented by acts of good, I know I haven't listed enough examples but I'm sure you understand, you may answe the question I asked earlier if you want.

No, I understand what you are saying. I'm a generally optimistic person, almost to the point of stupidity. I, whenever I can, try to help the people around me.

The one problem is that, as humans, flawed creatures, we aren't always sure what is truly right and what is truly wrong.

I am always willing to have this conversation.

What I want to spend my time on is my business.

At 6/3/09 10:48 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: who cares California is the west coasts toliet.

Yeah, with our high GDP and modernized cities, and thriving industries.

See this, Shaggy? Nobody thinks you can have a respectable conversation with me.

But I think you can.

So prove them wrong, neh?

Yeah. I think we've all gone through that phase with shaggy.

I UNDERSTAND AND AM FULLY AWARE THAT THE ODDS OF ME GETTING SOMEWHERE WITH SHAGGY ARE EXTREMELY LOW.

THAT BEING SAID, I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE BY TRYING.

Shaggy has been on this site for more than a minute.

Well we certainly aren't going to get any farther by having one nice post that he might reply to and having 10 smaller, more critical posts after that he's MUCH more likely to respond to and throw off the whole thing because these posts are easier to blow off.

Just let him answer my bloody post.

At 6/3/09 09:35 PM, Elfer wrote: We have already tried debating him in a reasonable manner. There is nothing left. It is burned.

Can you people just be hopeful for a minute?

... but it's shaggy. It doesn't matter that his arguments are flawed. All that matters is that he gets to say them.

Right, but I'm trying to give him benefit of the doubt here. If we treat him condescendingly, he may never be motivated enough to see our side.

At 6/3/09 08:32 PM, Bacchanalian wrote:

At 6/3/09 07:18 PM, GrammerNaziElite wrote: I'm being very nice here.

I can tell you his response right now.

There are more religious people than there are atheists, so it's the atheists that are crazy.

But he argues with religious people too, so the REAL question is-

Are there more Fundamentalist Creationists then not?

If you can't get pregnant after 300 times, I bet she's barren.

That would be AMAZING.

At 6/3/09 06:39 PM, BRS wrote: Advance Wars DS, at least towards the end of the game. It got to the point where I knew that I wasn't going to get anywhere for the first few hours because developing a half-decent strategy required a fair bit of trial and error.

Heavy on the error.

This happened to me on the volcano level.

Well looks like a couple of people who have nothing better to do than waste their time replying to something somone said they don't agree with, as I've said if you were ever at all confident in your won beliefs then you wouldn't have to argue, make fun of, or bitch at me, least of all tell me to change my beliefs, if you're that afraid of me then I'd prefer you come out and say it.

Listen to me. Listen to me very carefully. This message is not an attack. It is a statement of truth.

Every point you have ever made on this board, every one, has been proven false beyond reasonable doubt. But you continue to use the same arguments. From our perspectives, the perspectives of HUNDREDS of people, you're a madman. You have not EVER found a person to agree with you completely on this board. To us your beliefs are as valid as a man who says the sky is the color seven.

I am temporarily putting aside my raging ego to explain to you that in normal, human society, when a hundred people say that you're crazy and you say a hundred people are crazy, you're usually the crazy one.

I am trying to give you a chance at salvation- Listen to our beliefs. I assure you that if you show the SLIGHTEST sign of open-mindedness and listen to hat we have to say, much fewer people will insult you and you'll be a much more respected person.

Even if you don't change your beliefs, at least RESPECT ours.

I'm being very nice here.

As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't need to change his beliefs. He just needs to actually understand the things he's talking about - the religious stuff too. He's never even read genesis. Then again, he told me that, so maybe he was lying then too.

Can you imagine how satisfying it would be if we could actually get him to see logic to some degree?

It would be much better than dismissing him constantly.

(sigh) it gets....very tiering.....

If you are actually, genuinely tired of getting your proverbial ass handed to you every time you post here, and every reputable source on the planet disagrees with you, why don't you change your beliefs?

You can still be a Christian, but if you dropped the whole Fundamentalist bit and actually took an effort to understand science, we wouldn't harass you as much.

If you want, why can't you accept evolution, and then say God is responsible for it. That way, you're not making a mockery of modern science, but you can maintain your holy disposition.

My father says back in his day. the Church was fine with evolution, they just said God did it, because God though every creature should carve is own destiny.

At 6/2/09 10:13 PM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote: I dear I was dr0nk and bought Caprici Di Diablo

How is that going for you?

Yes, because it damages the pro-life movement and gives piss-ant little atheists on these boards (not to mention nation and worldwide) more reason to bitch and complain about the non-specific evils of "religion." And guess what?

Why can't we all just get along?

That motherfucker can actually wall jump.

At 5/26/09 11:24 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote:

At 5/26/09 11:16 PM, Elfer wrote: Prop 8 was a constitutional amendment. Regardless of whether it was right or wrong, it's not really within the court's jurisdiction to overturn it.

exactly thank you.

I never argued that point, it has nothing to do with our argument. We are discussing how, somehow, protesting Roe vs Wade is more justified than protesting Prop 8.

Somehow.

that doesn't mean I cant give my opinion does it? even though it went through the democratic process and if it went to the Caly Supreme court get over it.

...
...
...

I don't understand. I call you out on the abortion issue, and you say, it's your right as a citizen to protest decisions. Fine. Then you tell us to get over Prop 8. It doesn't work that way. Either you get over Roe vs Wade and we get over Prop 8, or neither of us give it up.

Are you trolling?

well one no I won't and you cant tell me and thats totally trollish. two if it's democratic it can be overturned if its took to the US Supreme Court. and three I never said that because its right to protest what you believe in even if its futile.

Then don't complain about people protesting Prop 8.