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At 12/5/10 12:24 PM, Deamond89 wrote:

Example:
- 'this leg is too short, that arm is too long, the fingers look as if they are sausages,...' <-BAD!
- 'I like your overall composition, the character looks dynamic that way. However please take a look again at your anatomy. The leg is too short while the arm is too long on the right side. Another advice of mine: try making the fingers more slim and add the jolts so it looks more natural. The fingers remind me a bit o sausages just now ;) But again, I really like how you put the picture together! You are getting there, just keep it up!' <- GOOD! This is a kind of critique I'd actually listen to. The person giving the critique considered my picture as a whole and seems to actually try to help me, so I will keep an eye on that next time.

Another thing you mentioned is the skill-level of the person giving out the critique... It is true. If someone can't make something right themselves, how are they supposed to tell us how to make it better? But look at your own art. For me if often happenes that I am so concentrated on my works that I don't see obvious mistakes anymore. Like one arm is about... 1/3 longer than the other. I am so blind for what mistakes I make myself that I don't notice them either until someone points it out or if I lookback at the picture again after some days/weeks, gaining some distance from it. (If you see something is wrong in the beginning while drawing, you wouldn't draw it wrong, right?) Even a newby-artist who barely can draw anatomy themselves can tell though that something is wrong there. They might not be able to give a closer critique on most points, specifying things, but they are able to tell if something is wrong too to a certain degree ;) So if a beginner tells you that one arm is 1/3 longer than the other, compare them. You might be surprised how blind oneself can be sometimes xD

Oh well, guess I'm talking totally off topic again but... I just felt like stating that, sorry.

Really great examples of good an bad critques, you definitely took this topic further, I'm bad with words so I felt like you filled in the missing gaps.

I agree with you , a weaker artist might point out a mistake that you clearly don't see by yourself, but I've noticed it's mostly obvious mistakes, they cannot really go into depth or give you much advice on how to fix it, it's just from personal expirience though, so don't take my word for it :P

Oh and you weren't off topic, I found what you wrote very interesting :)

At 12/5/10 11:16 AM, Kinsei01 wrote:

I can look at a piece, and completely not like it, or even not like the artist in some cases, but I can still evaluate it while remaining objective. I can still take the good technical points and make note of them, and give a good review.

And sometimes an artist needs a little of a pick me up, so every once in a while a a simple "Great, I love this!!!!!1!!" comes more in handy to the artist's self esteem then some critiques. Especially if every one went after the technical points on an incredibly weak piece. The artist's confidence would be completely shattered in just a few moments.

I think you are doing a great job at critiquing, I just wish more people put that much effort into writing a review and I agree, a simple compliment can inspire an artist to carry on with his art and not just give up from all the negative feedback

At 12/5/10 08:33 AM, Lintire wrote:

At 12/5/10 07:18 AM, Fifty-50 wrote: I see your point there. But people who mostly think that preference and critique are one and the same are people who aren't experienced in art or not artists themselves. You can't expect everyone to understand because this site isn't for artists only but musicians and animators.

But at least you receive some critique unlike comments that mostly compose of ego stroking.

Good artist =/= Good Criticizer. Most artists can't critique for shit. Quite a few critics couldn't draw if their life depended on it. They're two different skills.
Which, in a way, makes it all the more haphazard. However, i know that I'm guilty of mixing up my personal preference in with a critique on occasion, but I'll try to keep that out of it in future.

You have touched an interesting point.

I don't know hey, if a weak artist cannot see simple mistakes they make in their art then how can they possibly try to fix yours? I agree and diasgree, I've received some very helpful critiques from really professional artists out there, they can evaluate your work in detail, advise you on what you should focus on and are really delicate to point your flaws.

I haven't really received a helpful crtitque from a non-artist, most non-artists are easily impressed and look beyond any mistakes.

At 12/5/10 08:41 AM, Kuoke wrote: Hold up - you set out to clarify between critiquing and giving a personal opinion but I can only infer that by dragging out random examples from the Art Portal written by people that you have no idea whether they are trying to critique the work or not that you expect every review to be a critique.
The problem with that is is that it's a "Review" system and is in no way obliged to contain any from of critique, it's probably more of a bonus if you get one containing such information.
The Art Portal is more of a gallery where the general 'success' of a work is comprised of the praise it gets from the audience who give their personal opinions because they are justified to do so because they are the audience. If critiques are wanted, I'd make a wild guess and say the forums are a more logical place to look.

I see what you mean, it's never encouraged to 'critique' an artwork in the reviews, bu don't you think it's really pointless for someone to tell you they don't like your characters fingers because they are too chubby? Or that they don't like blue hair or that they are turned on by your creations?

Everyone had different tastes when it comes to art, it's fact that your art cannot possibly appeal to everyone.

It's quite obvious in the comments I collected whether the comment is helpful or just a personal taste.

I think your criticisms on the subject of how people comment/critique are more directed at the art portal, not this forum. 90% (not a real statistic) of people who frequent the art portal don't even know this forum exists, and there are people here who don't frequent the portal, so it's really best to think of the forum and the portal as separate entities. The majority of forumgoers do know about art and do know how to give at least a decent critique. Personal preference is still often mentioned, of course, but so are valid points and criticisms.
I agree with your points, though, and it's true; too many people think that their opinion on certain aspects of a piece really matters.

A critique is still a critique no matter where you put it, art portal of forum. Yes, I agree, I've seen and have received really helpful critiques, but the 50% consists of what is liked/not liked.

At 12/5/10 07:28 AM, mindmaster123 wrote:

But if you can really must do something constructive to say, that skin color, or shape of the face is a matter of the artist what a critique is important to tell if something really is missing the always from a neutral point.

Yes that is true, it's always better to have a good, helpful critique to help you grow

At 12/5/10 07:18 AM, Fifty-50 wrote: I see your point there. But people who mostly think that preference and critique are one and the same are people who aren't experienced in art or not artists themselves. You can't expect everyone to understand because this site isn't for artists only but musicians and animators.

But at least you receive some critique unlike comments that mostly compose of ego stroking.

That is true, but even animators and musicians critique each other to improve based on the technical side of things. A musician can be out of tune and another musician can just point it out to help him/her. There is a lot that can go wrong in animating.

I can expect the critics who write reviews to have some knowledge of what they are talking about, otherwise they should not say anything. I would never write a critique if I'm clueless about something, like composing music for example.

I really don't mind my stuff being critiqued as I can't always see my flaws, but I do mind someone saying they don't like something (like hair color or thick fingers etc) just because it's not their taste, it's fact that your art/music/animation will not appeal to everyone who sees it.

Thanks for your comment :)

After being on Newgrounds.com for a while and reading other people's comments I noticed that a lot of people thinkcritique and personal preference is one and the same, but they greatly differ, here is a short definition of both:

'Critique is a method of disciplined, systematic analysis of a written or oral discourse. Critique is based upon an informed opinion, and never upon personal opinion. Informed opinion is accepted as being technical knowledge, personal or professional experience, or specified training.' source taken from wikipedia

'Personal preference is a choice ofpersonal taste. The selecting of someone or something over another or others.' source taken from dictionary.com

Here is a few examples that I found in the reviews, I will keep the writers anonymous:

'Too bad her skin is pale'- this is definitely a personal preference, the comment is directed at skin color(as to preferring other skin colors) rather than there being something technically wrong with the skin of the character.

'I love this painting. Tasteful and well detailed, and I get a bit of power from the painting; she's realistic and not exaggerated, and you get a clear sense of humanity rather than simple sexual objectification.
The biggest problem I have is some things seem a little off, for some reason her eyes and nose are at a disproportionate angle to her mouth. Her feet are a little strange too, the big toe on her right foot is twice the size of the other one and seems to take up a bit too much of her right foot, and equally on the left her toes are bunched together in an awkward way.'- this is an example of a good critique, first the reviewer compliments the artist, mentions the flaws with fact to support their comment.

'I don't like her long hair and the sky is annoying'- when the word 'like' is used then the comment immediately becomes personal. What is the reason for not liking the hair? Is it scribbled onto the head or you just don't like long hair? There should be a reason behind a comment like that.

'You should learn to draw pretty faces'- this again is a personal preference, what if the artist painted an old wrinkly woman? Just because she isn't 'pretty' doesn't mean she is drawn incorrectly.

When critiquing don't be mean and call someone's work 'terrible' or call the artist names.

Have a fact behind every comment (eg: the elbows are too high, they should be by the waistline), it would help to know the principles of art such as composition, balance, focal point, color theory, anatomy etc, to critique more sucessfully.

Try not to say that you don't like something, this immediately makes it personal, I'm not a fan of marvel characters but I appreciate the effort and the technical part behind it, so if I ever critique a marvel styled piece I will only point out the flaws and I will not say that I don't like their character's face, clothes etc.

Try and find something you like in a piece to not take away from the artist's confidence in themselves.
Don't give a piece a bad rating because you don't like it, if it's done correctly then give it what it deserves on a technical level instead.

I'm by no means a professional in art or critiquing, I'm just writing what I feel about this subject and I hope it helps others to be more considerate towards others and their works. Feel free to add anything else I have missed or might be wrong about, I'm happy to listen:)

Here is a really old yucky piece, one of my very first attempts in digital painting, don't like her face :S

At 11/25/10 08:53 AM, Kosuk wrote: 40 Hours!?

god, perhaps I should take some more times in my drawings, haha x D
doing great, keep on!

Hehe, thanks. Yeah, I'm pretty slow XD

At 11/23/10 02:06 PM, Kosuk wrote:

At 11/23/10 01:13 PM, emiliapaw5 wrote: Here is a close-up of one of my commissions, the complete piece is in my gallery if you guys are interested.

Holy Poop!
This is awesome, how much did it take to make the whole picture? o.Ô

Hehe thanks :) I don't remember to be honest, It was a while back. I think it was 40 hours or so, but my indecisiveness took some of that time too :P

Here is a close-up of one of my commissions, the complete piece is in my gallery if you guys are interested.

At 11/22/10 10:24 AM, Fifty-50 wrote:

At 11/22/10 10:12 AM, emiliapaw5 wrote: This piece was for an ImagineFX challenge, it came in second. I enjoyed the competition out there :)
Guess the name of this goddess

This is very smooth and realistic. I admire hoe you have such a high skill level. The goddess's name is either aphrodite or nyx. Aphrodite because she is very beautiful, or maybe Nyx, because as I recall, she was the goddess of the night.

Wow, you know your Greek mythology, yeah, it's goddess Nyx. I used to read a lot about it when I was little but now I don't remember much, loved all the different stories. Thanks for the kind words:)

This piece was for an ImagineFX challenge, it came in second. I enjoyed the competition out there :)
Guess the name of this goddess

Here is another speed painting of a blushing puppy, 30 minutes

All painter this time with adding saturation in photoshop

Here is a painting of a male this time. Not too bad but he does look a little girly :P

At 11/17/10 01:55 PM, darkdav3 wrote: wow your work is some of the best ive ever seen. I dont even want to go into detail because i think i wouldnt be giving you enough credit even the work you are saying is bad i think is awsome

Thanks! I apreciate that :)

At 11/17/10 12:38 PM, Abbyka wrote:

At 11/15/10 11:27 AM, emiliapaw5 wrote: Here is another old piece, don't really like it anymore, her face looks terrible, the hand came out decent though :)

Thank you guys for the compliments, sorry that I'm not replying to you all individually

My daughter LOVES butterflies. I'm going to have to show her this (she's three). Love the colors on their wings. :)

Aww thats sweet, here is a quick painting just for your daughter(took me 30 minutes so sorry for the quality), I hope she likes it :)

I don't know what to tell you but to learn your anatomy, all your proportions are wrong. Try to seethrough the skin( What does the skeleton look like underneath? How big should his organs be etc?).

For example, looking at your orange-haired character:
-He looks like he has no brain since his eyeballs are filling up this space (maybe if you moved the eyes lower, waaay lower or enlarged the top of his head that could fix the problem)
-What expression are you trying to portray? (He looks like he witnesssed a brutal murder), the size of your eyes tells you a lot about what the character is feeling.
-His face is facing the viewer while his nose is sideways?

Your stuff also looks very rushed( skin color sticking out from underneath the hair etc), taking your time will produce more promising results.

One very VERY important thing is to use reference, you are in no condition to draw from your mind. You will be building up a visual library imprinted in your mind if you use reference. Right now your library is empty. Nobody learns a poem off by heart without looking at the words, you must memorize images just like memorizing words to a poem instead of guessing the words.

When I mean reference is not someone else's art but photographs of real things. Referencing other art won't give you a chance to develop your own style, instead you will be living in someone else's shadow, mimmicking their style.

Good luck!

At 11/17/10 09:29 AM, big-jonny-13 wrote:

At 11/17/10 03:22 AM, emiliapaw5 wrote: I don't really know how to paint men to be honest, I only have one painting of a male, which I will post later on, he looks girly hehe. I should practice male anatomy so I'm not limited, I will make it my new challenge when I have time.

Yeah, when you tend to only draw one gender, when you try to dray the other gender, they take on characteristics of the gender you're more comfortable with. Even Michelangelo drew women very masculine.

I didn't realize that, but you are right, I'm glad I'm not the only one struggling with this hehe!

Here is yet another old piece, I wish I had a higher resolution of it, unfortunately being a noob at the time I created a really small canvas, not realising it will influence the quality of a painting. I've learnt my lesson

At 11/16/10 11:38 PM, Fifty-50 wrote: I really love your realism in each of your pics. Very nice composition, shading and highlights. Just one thing, I noticed there are rarely any men in you pics.

Thank you :) You noticed well!
I don't really know how to paint men to be honest, I only have one painting of a male, which I will post later on, he looks girly hehe. I should practice male anatomy so I'm not limited, I will make it my new challenge when I have time.

Very nice characters! Really love the coloring. The only thing that bothers me about the girl are her legs, they are a bit of a strange shape, her hair is my favorite part :)

Really like the guys clothes, they work well together. The only thing that's strange is that his crotch is a bit high and he feels a little off balance as if he is leaning too much to the right side (his right), perhaps rotate him a little bit?

Great designs overall, hope I will see more of your stuff :)

Here is a painting of my sister, pretty old piece

For now I'm going to be posting old pieces, this is a self-portrait, done in about 3-4 hours

Another old piece titled 'peaceful sleep'

At 11/15/10 11:37 AM, Kosuk wrote: you just cant stop stunning people with that wonderfull art of yours can you?
lol...
great job, keep on!

Thank you kindly :)

Here is another old piece, don't really like it anymore, her face looks terrible, the hand came out decent though :)

Thank you guys for the compliments, sorry that I'm not replying to you all individually

At 11/12/10 04:19 PM, big-jonny-13 wrote:

At 11/12/10 04:14 PM, emiliapaw5 wrote: A speed painting of a kitten, did it within 30 minutes, all done on 1 layer in painter. Speed painting is good for practice of colors and experimentation. It also helps you to not overthink things (I tend to do that all the time) and just let your art flow

You really are a brilliantly talented artist. I've seen an image of this quality take hours for others to make.

Thank you :) I think it's all a matter of just letting yourself go, you should try it and I bet you will surprise even yourself at the end

If anyone wants me to critique their art please let me know, post a link here of the piece you want me to look at and I will try my best to give some advice and keep it professional :)

I'm far from a pro but I'm sure I can at least help with the basics

A speed painting of a kitten, did it within 30 minutes, all done on 1 layer in painter. Speed painting is good for practice of colors and experimentation. It also helps you to not overthink things (I tend to do that all the time) and just let your art flow