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At 9/11/13 06:27 PM, MintPaw wrote:

At 9/11/13 01:16 PM, ch00se wrote: Did the publisher make it clear this was going to be the case? Did they have a bid that would sufficiently cover this work? If not, then we can try to work that out with them.

I really don't feel it was, my username on FGL is MintPaw and the game ID is 29452.
But I am trying to work on this with the sponsor, we'll see how it goes.

I'm just saying in the future I'd like to be able to specify if my game was created in AIR or Java/C#. Although I don't plan on submitting any more mobile games based on AIR.

Thanks for the suggestion, I think it is a good one. We'll look into getting those sorts of specifics in there. We already do that with AS2/AS3/Unity/etc for the web, so it's probably a good idea to have it for mobile as well.

And, feel free to contact me if you have any more issues with your deal.

Thanks for the kind words, 4urentertainment! We always love seeing your games (and it was great meeting you at GDC, your business card is still my favorite!)

@Diki: I'm never one to say we couldn't do things better. I actually have contributed to our site code myself, so I know for a fact there are some shoddy parts :) Hopefully we can find time for a clean-up in the near future (and thanks for the feedback, this is exactly the type of stuff I'm looking for... we obviously don't have the "look" to back up the big numbers we show. So that's something we should address).

As for how we get to our $15MM number, it's actually very easy. So easy that we need to revamp it to capture all the other money we're helping developers make. So, here it is: (amount paid for game A + amount paid for game B + amount paid for game C.... + amount paid for the last game sold) And, what I mean by "paid for" is: sponsorship, license, publishing rights, or any other sort of license type. At this very second, we have a game with a $30k bid, two with ~$20k bids, a $15k bid, and so on... and that's just right now. Every month we see about $300k - $400k in deals. That does not include: money we help developers make through ads, microtransactions, mobile sales (now nearly $200k a month to devs), performance deals, and EasyLicense deals as I mentioned.

At 9/11/13 01:10 PM, MintPaw wrote: I've actually used FGL a few times, and I'm currently engaging in a flash+mobile deal with a sponsor. I actually do have an issue I'd like to discuss, my sponsor expects me to add Java and C# libraries for push notification based advertisements and such.

I can hack together some ANE files, but's it's rather difficult and I can't fully wrap my mind around it yet. Mobile sponsors need to understand that the mobile version of the game may be coded in AIR and you cannot easily add Java libs like that.

Hey MintPaw,

Did the publisher make it clear this was going to be the case? Did they have a bid that would sufficiently cover this work? If not, then we can try to work that out with them.

Also, as an aside, there may already be ANEs built to do what the publisher wants. Or, you could look into our Mobile Platform that auto-integrates games into many systems and marketplaces.

Also, if you do build an ANE, and there is none otherwise available, that might be worth something in itself. You could sell it to other developers or to the publisher so they have it for other games.

At 9/11/13 12:44 PM, kkots wrote: What to do:
-Register on FGL and send the game for publishing.
-FGL takes a part of your money for something you could have done yourself.

Hey kkots,

Thanks for the reply. I know this is a perception some developers have of us. I'd like to try to dispel it. Firstly, if you come to the site with a bid already in hand, we do not ask for a commission if we can't get you better. Also, I'd like to know how much you made from your last game? I could see if we may have done better for you. Or, maybe you could give us a shot on your next game?

Hey Everyone,

I really appreciate the responses. To our $15MM+ number. It actually should be higher, but we currently can't track all sales through the site. For example, we are doing $100k plus a month in "Easy License" deals that aren't automatically logged through our site stats. We are working on fixing that.

Also, thanks for clarifying for us: our name indeed is just "FGL" it is not an acronym or abbreviation.

As to how the site is built. It was actually built by a superstar programmer that was the producer to Asheron's Call 2. And has worked on many popular MMOs. However, it was built over 6 years ago and we've never done a significant update since, so I will agree that it doesn't have the "wow" factor many new, or redesigned, sites have. We've always been a small team and our main focus has been making developers money. So we've never found the time to go back and re-tweak the site.

I also apologize for the poll link. You have to be logged in. Pushing people to the home page is a horrible way to handle that though. We should at least have a message. I'll look into that.

Also, I genuinely wasn't intending to advertise FGL. To be honest, I may post in the near future about some really cool features we have coming out (so you can blast me then ;)) but this poll is intended to help the industry. We've always put a lot of effort into making sure the game market is fair and profitable for developers and we wanted to make sure we still had a feel for the pulse of the community outside the walls of FGL.

And, if you have any doubts of FGL, I encourage you to upload your game. You may be surprised... we have developers making quite a bit of money through us :)

Keep the feedback coming!

Hey everyone,

My name is Chris Hughes, and I'm co-founder of FGL.com. I wanted to reach out and see if anyone here would like to share feedback about FGL. We are in the midst of making some big changes and we want as much developer feedback as possible. If you've been active on FGL lately you've seen that we have been trying to get as much input as possible. I wanted to extend that reach to anyone who has used us in the past, or has never used us.

We have a very short survey we'd be very appreciative for feedback with:

https://www.fgl.com/poll.php?poll_id=17

We've always been very proud to be developers ourselves, and keeping developers in mind when we work to help games get published, sponsored, licensed, or generally make more money. So the more feedback the better! Good, bad, or otherwise.

And feel free to reach out to me directly if you have any questions or comments!

Best,

Chris

So, I want to know what people think about Swordless Ninja. I played it and thought it was fun and even eventually bought Samuri Mode.

I've seen reviews saying the game charges for achievements and levels but I never saw that... am I missing something? I actually like that the game was fully playable for free, and you could earn "GamerPoints" to buy other items. I never saw where you HAD to buy something.

But anyway, I was more wondering what everyone thought since I've seen a few games starting to sell things. I think there will be good ways and bad ways to do so, and I'm thinking this is a good way.

I just wanted to pipe in and say that in-game ads and sponsorships are NOT mutually exclusive. You can get them both! This goes for any in-game advertising network you wish to use. You just have to make sure you negotiate the exact terms with your sponsor.

And as a shameless plug, as always, we can help you with this and many other sponsorship/licensing related issues at FlashGameLicense.com

At 3/3/08 07:04 PM, Disarray-yarrasiD wrote: Apparently no one is willing to sponsor my game, which really sucks. At least that's what I am guessing it means when you send the game out to 7 different sites and the only one to get back says they are "not interested at this time."

Can't pretend I am not disappointed, so I am probably going to scrap the whole flash 8 3D thing and maybe even game development for a while.

Here is the what is apparently a miserable failure unworthy of even a letter of decline:
http://media.putfile.com/beta-19

Yes, definitely put the game up on FlashGameLicense.com as has been suggested. I really think you could get a decent sponsorship from this (I am co-owner of FGL).

Also, be sure to do this and seek a primary sponsor before taking any non-exclusive offers. I know people have been happy with xodo's offer, but you want to make sure the game gets sponsored before accepting any non-exclusives. In many cases you can end up getting both :)

Also, anyone else seeking sponsorships or licenses on their games should put their games on FGL, we have helped developers make well over $100,000 in deals in the last 4 months alone. We have approaching 200 sponsors looking at games. And it makes it much easier to contact these sponsors by using our PM system.

Chris

The MochiAd preloader IS a preloader. It will show the ad for at least 10 seconds, but it will show it longer if your game is still loading.

The interstitial ad is not a loader, it will only show for 10 seconds.

That's a good start to a list you have there. Someone actually has a database of portals that I think is very helpful:

http://mochi.omgames.co.uk/portals.php

I believe it has 90 portals or so.

At FlashGameLicense we have over 150 sponsor accounts, and we are in communication with most of them on a regular basis.

Chris

I just wanted to note that we do have the bigger sponsors viewing our site. In fact, Kongregate, ArmorGames, and CrazyMonkeyGames sponsored about 5 games all together just last week through our site.

However, they are very picky about games and so sometimes they won't even look at a game based on it's description, thumbnail, etc...

If you think your game is overlooked you can always email us at info[at]flashgamelicense.com

Also, you should feel free to directly contact the sponsors through email. Most developers find it easier to get a hold of them through our site, though.

Chris

There will always be a market for great games, and sponsors will always pay well for these types of games. On top of this, if you keep your options open you have the ability to sell many non-exclusive licenses of your games as well, making your game bring in even more money.

Hey everyone, not sure if you've checked out the new post on Emanuele Feronato's blog about us, but it's a good read. It also has some good advice at the bottom of the post (being a developer myself I know how hard it is to wait to release a game!)

http://digg.com/gaming_news/Monetizing_Y ou_Flash_Game_with_FlashGameLicense

Diggs welcome, of course.

I also suggest you check out the rest of the series (this is the eighth part of the series) as he explains multiple ways to try to monetize your game.

Let us and Emanuele know what you think!

Chris

When you post your game to FlashGameLicense.com an email will automatically be sent to all of the sponsors on our site that opt to receive emails. Also, you will be able to see the name of every single sponsor that looks at your game. So if you have your game up there for a week and don't see a particular sponsor then you can try emailing them (or let us know and we will contact them). We have over 100 sponsors on our roster so the chances are we have all 20 sponsors you emailed looking at games on our site, plus another 80+ more.

At 2/8/08 04:57 AM, Rustygames wrote:

Hey ch00se,

I apreciate your detailed response. Your site is great don't get me wrong, but I prefer building relationships with people and I'd rather pay them to make a collaborative effort with rustyarcade staff rather then buy a finished game. I'd like to think every game we've sponsored so far was more of a team effort then an outright purchase.

Of course your site has it's own advantages, and I'm sure I'll continue to browse it looking to build bridges. You just have to respect that I run my business my way, and you run yours your way. There is no better way, just different ways :)

Rustygames,

I just want to make sure that people don't get the wrong impression of our site (you included) because the reality is much different than your assumptions. I would say 80% of the games that have been sponsored from our site went through many changes suggested by the eventual sponsor. So our site is promoting EXACTLY what you say you want. Our sole purpose is to help move this industry along, and so we made a concerted effort to make sure we didn't put any restrictions on things, rather we wanted to make things easier. It is MUCH easier to talk to developers and sponsors through our site.

Of course I respect your business. I just want to make sure you're making decisions based on facts instead of assumptions. And if you're so inclined you could always suggest to us things that would make the system better. The point of these posts, for me, is to educate not to say that we're the best and only way to go. Because I know we are not the only way to go, and in some cases it may be better to try other options. But we do strive to provide the best resource possible, and we always appreciate feedback since it ends up helping everyone :)

At 2/7/08 05:51 PM, Rustygames wrote: The old fasioned way. They can shop around between sponsors. The current way it's done we can all see what each other are offering. Also don't forget sponsors are the ones taking the risks. The best deal should be a balance between the developer and sponsor, people always talk about developers getting fair deals but no one protects sponsors. I've lost a LOT of money from greedy developers wanting more then their game is worth, and I've gained a fair ammount too from good games getting a fair price.

Well we are about progress and moving forward at FGL. We don't like "the old fasioned way." We want to let developers be able to focus on what they truly love: making great games. Developers are always free to send out emails, or deal with contacts they already have, why would we even try to take that away? But most developers I've talked to HATE doing this grunt work, they just want to make a great game and get a good deal for it. And I do understand that there are two sides to this coin, I really do work to help find the best deal for developers and sponsors. Most sponsors that have worked with us have made much more money since we also assist them in their negotiations, and in the future we will help with distribution. Some sponsors have even told us that they use us almost exclusively... they don't even go through emails with games anymore. Maybe we could work with you with some of our new innovative (ie not old fashioned :)) licensing terms. Developers love them and sponsors love them.. win-win.

Personally I prefer developers who go the extra mile to find sponsors. It shows they really care about the project and who they want to put their name to it; "ebaying" off games like this feels kinda cheap and takes the fun out of the whole affair. To me it's taking the most important thing out of casual games, the fun. Which is really what it's all about...

As I've stated before this isn't an auction site so the comparison with ebay is a red-herring. It's not a valid argument. And really... what developer thinks this is fun? What is fun is making games! And sending out hundreds of emails and waiting to hear back from sponsors who may never respond cuts into that time. Of course developers care about their games, we're just making it easier for them to get them monetized and out to the public faster.

Cheers Chris. I am in no way saying other people shouldn't use your system. I'm sure it's brilliant for the bigger sponsors, but personally I like dealing with developers and helping them grow without 'buying' them on some kind of developer meat-market.

That's not to say I won't keep my eyes peeled for a gem on your site ;)

PS: Can you make an unsubscribe link on your automatic emails, it is the law

Our site has proven a great resource to sponsors of all types and sizes, and for developers covering the spectrum as well. And I'm not sure how the analogy with the meat market works with our site. So far, developers have been able to talk with sponsors MORE easily. So by not using our system you may actually be being less personal. And if your worry is that you just don't want your offer on the site, then you should feel free to message the developer directly. We really are not trying to limit anything. In fact the oposite: we want to give everyone more options. Feel free to use the site in any way that you are comfortable with.

As for unsubscribing to emails, you already can. The instructions are written in the email :)

Hey everyone,

We are really sorry about the file name issue. The reason we don't allow certain file names is because we've found some browsers won't show the game if there are certain characters (like spaces). And we didn't want to modify the name for you because then issues of versioning arise. I do think it is unnacceptable that all your info is lost once you get the error though, and this will be fixed.

And Rusty, you do realize that there is a way to filter games out in multiple ways, right? Like by quality, and genre. And you can also have us point games out to you... if you let us know what types of games you're looking for we can drop them in your "watch list" whenever we run accross them. You can also skim through and drop games in your watch list to go over later.

And of course the bids are public, how else is the developer going to get the most money for their product? We thought of a "silent bid" option but then we realized that developers would go around telling what deal they have and could sponsors beat that deal anyway. And just to clarify, the bids are only public to other sponsors.

I would suggest everyone, developer and sponsor alike, use our PM system if you come across a case where you're not sure if the other party is on the same page as you. For example if you're not sure if a developer is going to accept your offer then you should message them. We have already done over $60,000 worth in deals in 3 months! This is huge, and there's room for everyone to benefit from this.

And remember, you can always shoot us an email with specific questions.

Thanks!

Chris

You could also post your game to FlashGameLicense.com. All games on our site are secured so only sponsors can see them and you can see a list of every sponsor who looks at your game. All the developers on our site (over 300 of them) have mentioned how they love this feature as it takes out the question of whether or not your game even got viewed. Also, you can send private messages to any of the sponsors on our system (over 100 of them). This is a great way to get feedback on your game.

Good luck on your sponsorship hunt!

Chris

At 2/5/08 03:01 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote:

At 2/5/08 01:30 PM, ch00se wrote: And to respond to the MochiAds thing: if you're hearing that people are making $200 or more off of sub-par games, I think that's a good indicator that you should be using their services too :)

It says to me, cynic I am who's watching the economy in America go down the pan and waiting to see what knock on effects it'll have for a forthcoming recession, is that the sponsorship thing is not long for this world and the reserves are being shot into oblivion by interstatial adverts who some sponsors will ban outright from appearing in thier games because of cutthroat marketting and demand for ad revenue...

Kayn's tip for 2008 - suck as much money out of the sponsors as you can. The end is nigh.

Quite the opposite really. We've convinced many sponsors to allow MochiAds in distributed versions of games. The ads are proving to not compete with sponsor branding because the audience and marketing strategies are different. MochiAds allows advertising to be placed in thousands of games across the internet, but doesn't guarantee an ad in any particular game. Sponsorships guarantee that your branding will be seen by every person who plays the game you sponsored (excepting versions you allow to be licensed out non-exclusively). And the reverse side of this is that developers are willing to take slightly lower offers since they know they can make up the difference with the in-game advertising.

And bringing the economy into your argument the way you did isn't really valid since the advertisers that go through ad networks like MochiAds are usually very different than the advertisers who sponsor games (though I hope that there will be a mix of this in the future). The truth is that flash games are getting a whole lot of attention and the industry is booming. And it is an worldwide industry as well. I am actually presenting on something along these lines at the GDC coming up. If any of you are going to be attending, be sure to stop by the panel I'll be on at 3:15 on Monday the 18th. I'd love to chat.

Hey everyone,

First let me say that the reason it seems like developers are getting paid more for their games these days is because they are. Many of you probably know me from FlashGameLicense.com and Adam and I work very hard to get every developer the best deal possible.

To address the original subject of this discussion: it is really hard to get games sponsored that have the same theme as hundreds, if not thousands of other games already on the market. I truthfully think you could get a small sponsorship with some changes, but if you want anything worthwhile you would have to add a "twist" to the usual mouse avoider game, as well as some updated graphics. With that said, you should be proud of what you've made. There are many people who have tried and not been able to accomplish even this type of game. Keep making games and I'm sure eventually you could come up with something really special.

To address some of the other things said: I can assure you that ArmorGames only sponsors games of the highest quality. When they have used FlashGameLicense they only put offers in on the games that are obviously VERY well made, and they don't mess around with putting in low-ball offers either. I have to admit that there are other portals that have slightly more lenient terms (allowing MochiAds, and/or non-exclusive licenses) but that doesn't change that ArmorGames is one of the highest-tier game portals there are. And really, if they were willing to have some give on their terms they may be one of the top sponsors in the whole industry.

And to respond to the MochiAds thing: if you're hearing that people are making $200 or more off of sub-par games, I think that's a good indicator that you should be using their services too :)

My advice is if you really want to see if your game is sponsor-worthy, put it up on www.flashgamelicense.com and see what bites you get. Many sponsors are willing to give you feedback on your game as well, and get to see every single sponsor that takes a look at your game.

Thanks everyone!

Chris

Hey everyone. I'm glad this is getting people talking. That's what we wanted.

I was one of the authors of that article and I want to make it clear that it was not meant to say that the MochiAds or Jay is Games contests were 'must enter' contests. In fact, what I hope you get from the article is that you should always be cautious of contests.

With that said, I do think that the Jay is Games contest, the Kongregate competitions, and the MochiAds contest are very good contests when compared against other contests (some of you have mentioned some others).

When we wrote that article we didn't even know it was going to get put on MochiLand, we actually submitted it to a few sites.

I think the major thing is we as developers need to start showing sponsors (this includes sponsors of contests) that we will no longer be taken advantage of. Of course sponsors want to make money, that's the main reason they deal with us. And to me that's ok as long we are treated, and monetized fairly. I mean seriously, no one plays our games to see their ads. We want to congratulate those that respect us, and shun those who don't.

In the end, sponsorships and contests aren't for everyone, that is true. But I'm glad to see contests around that have very minor restrictions such as the ones mentioned. We wanted to point them out both to bring them to the light, and hopefully force other contests to become more lenient as well. I still think they can benefit everyone.

If there was any propaganda in the article it was for FlashGameLicense.com, because I truly believe (in my biased opinion) that everyone makes more money by using our service there. But that is a rant for a different post :)

Chris

First, let me say lol to what WolfAkela wrote.

Next, let me give you another option for sponsorships. You can post your game to my site, Fantastic Choice. Sponsors are constantly looking at the site for games they want to sponsor or license. No one other than sponsors can view the game.

This saves you loads of time of having to email all the different portals. It's almost like sending out a mass email to them all (in fact, an email IS sent out the second your game is uploaded). From there, the sponsors can either bid on your game or contact you about more options.

Chris