At 9/16/09 11:53 AM, poxpower wrote:
Yeah a barely noticeable improvement in mental health sure makes up for all the genocides.
Because genocide is purely a religious devotion. Yes.
Not to mention that it's not religion alone that can provide these results. These are just benefits of being involved in a community on a regular basis.
But religions encourage it. There's not always one path to get to the same place. Simply because other things do it too doesn't make religion less valuable for having done it or encouraged it.
You could be in a bowling club and get the same results.
Some of the same results. Not all bowling clubs have a man willing to listen to you after you wife has died. And a psychologist might listen to you, but he won't hook you up with another client.
That's not an advantage, that's what we call "dictatorships".
Only when a religion actually dictates solid law. In the U.S. currently religions do more to guide and sway people than dictate law. And you are thinking of something other than a dictatorship. Dictatorships are one or very few controlling many.
It doesn't, for instance, look at the effects of religion on...say... the enemies of the Aztecs.
It would be harder to study the effect on life of the Aztec religion. But I'm sure you would find the rituals most early religions are nature oriented enough to provide anecdotes on how to survive.
I submit that all the good it has ever done would have been done ANYWAY.
I submit that humans create religion and that nothing would have been done the way it has been with out it and that we wouldn't be human with out religion in our past and present. We'd have to think entirely differently. How about proving a negative. We would have done everything we've done anyway. WTF man?
For one thing, you can find all the "good" parts of just about every religion all over the world. But all the "bad" parts are usually unique to either the religion itself or to the idea of religion, i.e. to believe without evidence and to follow leaders blindly.
There are times when you have to follow your leaders, blindly as you put it.
How many scientific laws have you confirmed yourself through experimentation, observation and proof ??? I thought so.
"Don't murder" is pretty universal for instance. Any fool who credits religion with that rule is as blind as a Ray Charles.
No one credited religion with coming up with it, but to helping molding societies acceptance of different ideas. There are always positive and negative aspects to each law or commandment, including murder. There are other laws, customs and ideas which religion teaches its followers which are beneficial under different circumstances.
And that's without mentioning the incalculable damage it has done by impeding democracy, equality and scientific inquiry every damn change it got. I can't think of one religion that says "everyone is born equal".
No one is born equal. Each person comes into the world with a certain capacity and a certain environment from day one everyone is different. Even if you are granted the same constitutional rights by your government, you still don't have the same access to enforcement of them as someone who has 100 times more money than you.
Democracy is nice, its not pretty, its not perfect.
I can't think of one religion that says "you shall conduct double-blind tests".
Again, double-blind tests are relatively new. It would be unreasonable to even believe a religion would include something that new.