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At 4/8/04 12:08 AM, BeFell wrote:

At 4/8/04 12:03 AM, southernrockblows wrote: i would really appreciate the report on this given i cant tell who i believe.

Me, I gave specifics.

I was just parroting what I was hearing on the news at that moment but I will find a legitament source just for you.

Here you go I even used CNN so there would be no disagreements.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/07/fallujah.strike/index.html

At 4/8/04 12:03 AM, southernrockblows wrote: i would really appreciate the report on this given i cant tell who i believe.

Me, I gave specifics.

I was just parroting what I was hearing on the news at that moment but I will find a legitament source just for you.

The countries with more than two political parties usually only have their leaders elected by a plurality. So the winner of every election usually has the majority of voters against them.

Our forces were shot at from a mosque by RPGs and small arms fire. They ordered an airstrike that hit an ouside wall to make a whole so the troops could get into the mosque and capture the terrorists. The mosque itself was untouched by the bomb.

The mosque is no longer a holy shrine when one chooses to use it as a base for attack. It becomes an enemy stronghold that must be seiged.

I was just wondering if anybody else feels this way. I find it annoys me a lot more when the savior movie comes up after I blam than when the blam movie comes after a saving vote. It just really irritates me when I can't kill something.

At 4/7/04 10:42 PM, RoteStinktier wrote:

At 4/7/04 09:51 PM, Ruination wrote: I sincerely hope you're not granting "preventive" attacks any validity.

No. Not at all. I view the war in Iraq as preventive. I'm against all 'preventive' attacks. I can see the reasoning behind pre-emption, but have qualms about it, in terms of credible intelligence, etc.

A problem that will be considered from now on I 'll admit. Not that it still wasn't the right thing.

At 4/7/04 05:07 PM, southernrockblows wrote: id say adams, unless you know a bit about history you wont know what happened or what im talking about.

Which one?

James Madison doesn't usually get the recognition he deserves. He was the writer of the constitution.

At 4/7/04 09:46 PM, RoteStinktier wrote:

At 4/7/04 07:39 PM, BeFell wrote: Isn't that the U.N.'s responsibility? The U.S. was not the only country in Afghanastan and as I recall that invasion had quite a bit of international support.

Yes, but see BeFell - unlike how Fox news and the current administration paint it, the US is part of the UN.

Hopefully not much longer

Remember where the bulk of troops in Afghanistan came from?

We still provide the bulk of the troops in Afghanistan and I was reffering to water and electricity. Can't countries with no military at least do utility work.

At 4/7/04 08:35 PM, FatherVenom wrote: Although that may be true, Fox News has a stigma for shading their news towards the right. I tend to agree with that sentiment and many stories aren't told on Fox News if it doesn't fit the right wing theme they portray. I'm not saying that there's a conspiricy on Fox News, just that they tend to be biased.

I feel the same way about CNN.

At 4/7/04 07:43 PM, FatherVenom wrote: Of course we are talking about Fox News here.

Do you even know who Geraldo is? Unlike other news sources Fox has prominent news analysts from both sides and Geraldo is very much from the left side.

At 4/7/04 07:31 PM, bumcheekcity wrote: They aren't coming back, but they're re-grouping. Either way, they still dont have any electricity, proper food or proper running water.

Isn't that the U.N.'s responsibility? The U.S. was not the only country in Afghanastan and as I recall that invasion had quite a bit of international support.

At 4/7/04 04:37 PM, Pink_Floyd wrote: . Anyway, Al Franken has proof about Bush, and can back it up, but then again, who knows if his proof is faulty? Oh well... I still don't like Bush.

Oh no I am sure Al Franken's proof is very good. Out of all of the journalists and democrats trying to dig stuff up on Bush Franken would obviously be the one to come up with something completely indusputable because he is so neutraul that he has no reason to lie. Thank God for Al Franken and his noble service to the American people.

At 4/7/04 02:16 PM, Vinstigator wrote: Now he's starting to write reviews and be a real asshat!

Have you ever read some of the reviews he's gotten? It isn't suprising his reviews are like that considering that is the kind he most accustomed to seeing. In fact now that I think about it I think those reviews you showed are parodies of some that he has recieved. It seems kinda hyproctitical to criticize any kind of review he writes considering all of the crap people say about him.

At 4/7/04 02:42 AM, FatherVenom wrote: Really? It took you until philosophy 103 to learn that? Interesting. I know feel like I was rushed through the history of philosphy in philosophy 101.

101 wasn't required for me because I am an accounting major; they wanted me to take 103: Introduction to Ethics. I blame the Enron people for that. I thought it would be fun to take my novice understanding out for a walk since I had to learn it anyways and I can't imagine anywhere else where I could use it. Still another year before I can start taking classes related to my major.

At 4/7/04 02:22 AM, Dr_Arbitrary wrote: Sorry if that made no sense, I've been totally drunk all night long... Sorry for wasting all of your time. In case you're interested, Kraftwerk has got to be the best band in the world to listen to while drunk.

I am sure that made perfect sense, it's just probably above my head. How about a Utilitarianism take stating that war is justified when it can be claimed that regardless of the means the consequences will create the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest amount of people. For a historicale example: Dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed thosands but in the end saved millions. Similarly one could say that removing Saddam from power inavertantly caused civilian casualties but in the end the result will be more lives saved. To counter this argument however one could point to the Kantian theory which more or less states the ends never justify the means. So it could be argued that it is never right for one to go to war because in war immoral actions happen and that is unaceptable.

Yep Philosophy 103. For some reason it is required for accounting majors.

My friend has a ferret named muff. All of it's hair fell out for no apparent reason. Ferrets do a lot of odd things.

At 4/6/04 05:27 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 4/6/04 01:16 AM, BeFell wrote:

Like Skunk, I dont know if you're joking. But either way, Arts is the one thing that shouldn't be cut down. I'm never goig to use my physics knowledge, but i'll play the sax (and guitar. bass, and piano) as long as 'll live.

I don't think music is getting any cuts, the University of Idaho gets a lot of funding for music because we put on the Lionel Hampton Jazz festival. As far as I know the cuts are just in fine arts. I am not exactly sure what fine arts is but it makes me think of Riverdance or naked statues.

As to the question of wether or not I was joking this picture was on my door until two days ago when the art protesters vandalized it for the 5th time. I say get a real major pot heads.

Is that a violet or lavander...possibly perrywinkle. What is perrywinkle?

At 4/6/04 01:05 AM, slicric131 wrote: Do you think its a bit extreme or do you like it?
Personally i think its extreme.

I like it, there is real world application and it would be extremely effective, for the poor kids anyways. Oh well they're the deliquents anyways. Oh a thought just occured to me what if some trailer trash kid was late for school because he was getting beat by his redneck dad for waking him from his hangover because he accidently stepped on an empty cigeratte pack. Then he shows up for school late and with a black eye and they tell him he needs to pay them five dollars so he goes and tells his drunk dad--Infuriating him, of course--and recieves another black eye plus detention for not bringing the five bucks. Then another beating for not comming straight home after school. That would kinda suck.

I realize this is kinda a liberal take and I actually support the five dollar punishment, low income America just fascinates me.

At my school they are going to cut the fine Arts Program. I couldn't be happier because it occured to me, how many conservatives are majoring in art? This is a good opportunity to clear out some of those hippie bastards. I wouldn't mind seeing cuts in the football program though, the last time I looked we had the third worst team in the country. Yay!!!

At 4/5/04 06:56 PM, RoteStinktier wrote:

I am the treasurer for the college republicans here at the U of I. Does that make me a gladiator?

or dirty Mexicans invading America.

Along these lines I have a Mexican American roomate. I have been biding my time and one of these nights when he comes back drunk he'll find himself waking up duct taped in a row boat slowly drifting south from the California coast. That'll learn em.

At 4/5/04 03:23 PM, RoteStinktier wrote: What facts does Kerry have to distort?

fact: Bush didn't serve during Vietnam

Nobodies disputing that but what about that National Guard B.S.

fact: During Bush's reign, theres been a net loss of jobs

Caused by a recession that started in the closing months of Clinton's reign.

fact: Bush invaded a country for no defendable reasons

Kerry supported that invasion.

fact: The bulk of Americans are worse off than they were 4 yrs ago

A lot of shit has happened in the last 4 yrs that no one man can be held responsible for.

At 4/5/04 03:13 PM, Madspeed wrote:
Bush.
I haven't actually seen his commercials on TV (he can spend less in Texas), but I saw them on his web site. Some of his stuff is patriotic, some of his stuff bashes Kerry, but what I found especially funny was when he did the wacky black and white one.

All of Kerry's stuff bashes Bush, however bush's put downs are still better because he doesn't have to distort any facts.

At 4/5/04 01:45 PM, River_Warden wrote: Seriously though, just another plan to allow those that can, to skip out, while those who either cannot or don't know enough to continue to fund the economy.

Heres some facts for you.
http://www.lowcountrynow.com/stories/021501/LOCbequetteltr.shtml

Let's look at the facts from the latest figures released by the Internal Revenue Service for 1998. The top 1 percent of income taxpayers' average income is $269,500 and they pay 34.8 percent of all income taxes. The top 5 percent pay 54 percent of all income taxes and earn an average of $114,700. This shows that the Democrats, over the years, have been extremely successful in "soaking the rich."

If you look at it a different way, the bottom 50 percent of income taxpayers pay only 4.2 percent of total income taxes while the upper 50 percent pay 95.8 percent.

The numbers show that the rich do there share to "fund the economy" as you say.

At 4/5/04 12:56 PM, bumcheekcity wrote:

At 4/5/04 11:43 AM, BeFell wrote: As bad as sweatshops are the people working in them choose to and they choose to because they have no other means of supporting their families.

Socialism woulnd't be great at the moment either. What we need is a HUGE iunflux of aid, in the form of education to the Third World. Then, once they learn to fish, and farm, and drill for wells, they can set up their own jobs, get their own money, and stop being exploited by us.

They do all of that stuff already and they are still poor and starving. A healthy free market industrial system in conjunction with a democratic government is their best chance. The only way these changes will be possible is with money from private companies. There isn't enough money in the US Federal budget to fix the world with handouts.

At least in a free market system there is the likely hood that as companies continue to globalize they will eventually be competing in those third world countries driving up the price of labor and thus doing more to increase the quality of life there. Competition is the best way for workers to exploit companies.

No. What the comanies do is they CONSPIRE with each other in order to keep ages down. If the best job you can get is for a dollar day, you dont care weather you work for the show company or thet-shirt company. You don't care at all. The shoe comay and the t-shirt company are both very happy, because they're both getting cheap labour. There are millions of avaliable workers, and they need thousands, so everyone's happy. Oh, except the people working their asses off for a dollar a day. They're not, but they dont seem to count.

Would you prefer the companies pull out and leave them with nothing. If no domestic business have any interests in foriegn countries then there will certianly be no motivation for the citizens to send money to them. As you foriegners are so fond of pointing out the well being of the rest of the world is not America's responsibility, why should we be expected to send them our money with no benifit to us, It's not going to happen. Right or wrong the only money they are going to get will come from stitching my Nikes. It sucks for them but we are not the world's welfare check.

At 4/5/04 05:37 AM, bumcheekcity wrote: Well, let's ry not exploiting millions of people for out own personal benefit, and perhaps an end to sweatshops. That'd be a great start.

If a socialist system were implemented then no jobs would be outsourced to third world countries because profit would no longer be the driving force behind business. So all of the people working in those sweatshops counting on that five dollars a day or whatever would end up getting zero dollars. As bad as sweatshops are the people working in them choose to and they choose to because they have no other means of supporting their families. So using the logic of replacing the current economic systems with socialism the people in third world countries would be even more worse off. At least in a free market system there is the likely hood that as companies continue to globalize they will eventually be competing in those third world countries driving up the price of labor and thus doing more to increase the quality of life there. Competition is the best way for workers to exploit companies.

At 4/4/04 04:15 PM, Locke666 wrote: Just so you know China hasnt been a "communist" country for a while. They ditched the communist economic thing quite a while back and technically are just a glorified dictatorship that thinks communist sounds cool.

Yeah, I forgot about that but my understanding is they still identify themselves as a communist country even though they are currently working twoards a capitalist system. Either way their current woes are certianly the result of their bout with comunism so my example still works.

At 4/3/04 09:09 PM, implodable wrote:

At 4/3/04 05:52 PM, BeFell wrote: I would have to say that you are just spouting complete liberal brainwashed bullshit.

And that would be ignorant

No more so than what he told me

Everything I said can be backed up by facts.

I'm sorry i had to laugh

Your proof?

Hundreds of thousands not millions. You call me ignorant for supporting a crook like bush then in the very next sentence you voice your support for Micael Moore, interesting.

Michael Moore is pretty damn smart, i doubt you back your "facts" against him.

I didn't question his intelligance

Unlike the people we are fighting we only target enemy combatants.

I'm interested to know where you got that from.

In the first days of the war we had live news coverage showing Saddam's buildings and palaces blowing up while the civilian instaltions around them remained unharmed.

I will admit that there is and always will be unfortunate civilian deaths but we strive hard to avoid them. If you want proof of this I point to the fact that Falusha is still standing.

1.5 million deaths, actually majority was civilians. Falusha is more of a idea than an organization, and thus cannot be taken out.

1.5 million died in Iraq? I think I am going to have to ask for a source on that. Falusha is a place that could very easily be reduced to rubble but in the interest of protecting the inocent we are going to endanger the lives of our troops by sending them in to pick out the terrorists.

At 4/4/04 10:41 AM, bumcheekcity wrote: Wow... somebody put US and Communist into the same sentance.

It made me cringe too.

Either way, yeah Capitalism's great. Tell that to the 1.2 Billion hat are living in less than $5/day. They must love it.

Aren't most of those people living in communist China?

Capitalism takes all the money, and gives it to the rich in order for them to further exploit the poor. It thrives on poverty and exploitation.

Once again aren't most of the poverty stricken and exploited people living in communist China? In the US our poor have a higher standard of living than most other countries' middle class.

At 4/3/04 06:02 AM, ghostmint wrote: This is complete conservative brainwashed horse shit, bush is very pleased that people like you are still willing to blindly follow him in all his criminal endevours. Pretending to be a devout christian, or a devout anything for that matter is the biggest case of fraudulent preeching i have ever heard. The only thing he is devoted to is capitalism, and once in a while he will throw in a religious refference for good measure, since christianity is the most populous religion in America, and in the world but thats because of americas overwhelming per portion. Its really easy to kill innocents over seas when when you cant put a face to them, but one day his negligent war mongering will come back and bite him in the ass. How ignorant of you to support such a crook, your the same type of delusional conservative that says Michael Moore spliced sound bites of bush speeches to make him look bad, well he didnt have to and thats simply not true, he makes himself look bad quite fine all on his own.

I would have to say that you are just spouting complete liberal brainwashed bullshit. Everything I said can be backed up by facts. Well except supporting the guy above me that was just lack of attenion on my part. Hundreds of thousands not millions. You call me ignorant for supporting a crook like bush then in the very next sentence you voice your support for Micael Moore, interesting.

A vote for bush is a vote for murder. fucker

Unlike the people we are fighting we only target enemy combatants. I will admit that there is and always will be unfortunate civilian deaths but we strive hard to avoid them. If you want proof of this I point to the fact that Falusha is still standing.