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At 8/19/13 11:48 PM, Cynical-Charlotte wrote:

At 8/19/13 10:56 PM, Camarohusky wrote: None of these comments make any of these stories unique to one event.

Are you aware of any other widespread mythology which can be compared on equal scale? There are hundreds of other flood stories from around the world, but I simply do not have the time to analyze them all. The ones I posted are the general trend - the same tale is rendered with slight changes as the culture is farther from Sumer. If you read through the summaries I gave, you will notice that it is undeniably the same story told in Europe, East Africa, and the Middle East.

OK, 1 - Nigeria is West Africa and 2 - You're really pushing square pegs round holes. You oversimplify these stories greatly, but the fact is they have very different meanings and implications. But yeah, I have a couple of other equally widespread mythologies:

- Divine disastrous earthquakes.
- The creation of man from clay.
- The existence of giants.
- A man descending into the underworld to reclaim a dead person.
- The sacrifice and rebirth of a sun god.
- A serpent being demanding human sacrifice.
- The chaining of a trickster figure to a mountain face.
- The world being bourn on a turtle's back.

And that's just off the top of my head. There are a lot of commonalities between different mythologies, and a disastrous flood is far from the most specific.

Also lol MadHatter dun' watched Zeitgeist.

At 8/19/13 01:17 PM, Camarohusky wrote: sub-saharan Africa.

I agree with you entirely, but it's worth noting that there are originally Sumerian/ Semitic peoples in Nigeria. It could just as easily have been brought down from Mesopotamia by the Ewe. People seem to forget how complex West African genealogy is.

But yeah, I agree 100%

At 8/18/13 06:12 PM, Cynical-Charlotte wrote: Perhaps you should read a summary on each of the culture's mentioned. The reason for the catastrophe is not agreed upon universally, which is why the transgression and destruction columns are separate. Not all disaster narratives involve water, but it would stand to reason that if the same event/tale is being spoken of by each group, they would have the critical elements such as this. I presume the creator of the chart sought specificity - details are important in traditional records when possible.

The thing is that much of this "specificity" is entirely redundant. If you talk about a flood, you talk about destruction by water. If not, it isn't a flood disaster and shouldn't be on the chart. It isn't particularly useful detail either, I'd say about 90% of the details are redundancies covered by the blanket term "divine flood catastrophe". They're simply thrown in in a blatant attempt to make the argument look more convincing than the facts show it to be.

Rather, it indicates the translations became warped over time as humanity migrated away from the Sumer region (you seem to ignore the time periods involved) - this can be observed as you move further from the Fertile Crescent.

That's some serious Hebrew-centrism. Each tradition is different, you could just as easily say that the translations warped as you move away from the Polynesian isles or mesoamerica. The fact is that these are clearly different stories bound together simply by the idea of a big flood and that half the checked boxes shouldn't be checked or just shouldn't be there at all. Bang all you want, the square peg will not go into the round hole.

It is possible each civilization developed their own Flood account, but I find this unlikely due to the striking similarities. Instead, I believe the foundational story originated with the Babylonians and Hebrews as their versions retain the most detail. However, the dimensions of the Hebrew Ark is ideal which may suggest their account is more accurate than even Babylon. The scribes rigorously committed to preserving the integrity of the original work which was most likely written by Moses.

The similarities consist of, literally, a flood and sometimes a boat. All in cultures that would have likely experienced flooding, and the boat bit only happened in cultures with boats. We also hear of worldwide fires, and of worldwide earthquakes in these cultures but because they do not enter the Judaeo Christian tradition, they are notable by their omission.

Also, I was under the illusion that the dimensions of the ark were never written in Genesis. And if relying on the bible's validity is where your argument leads you, I don't think it's really worthy of lengthy discussion.

You're welcome to believe what you want, of course, it just sounds ridiculously one sided. Belief is the operative word, because it is clearly predating any rationale in your argument.

At 8/18/13 01:29 PM, Wriggle wrote: Black people crimes/rape:
The reality here is that is statistics. Ignoring statistics is dangerous. Statistics are often used for gun violence (Often ignoring the overall crime but I digress) and there is nothing wrong with that but when being cautious around black people you don't know based on statistics it is considered "Racist. Must I remind you guys on what the definition of racist actually is?

That depends entirely which black people and which crimes you're talking about. Income level and subculture are far better predictors of violent crime, so I'd suggest that regardless of racism if you're cautious around all black people your prejudices are inefficient. Yeah, regardless of skin colour if a dude's got broken knuckles, grills and a hoody up, being cautious might be smart. But I'd also say leaving room to be proven wrong is important.

White Heterosexual Men use women for sex and are useless slobs:
White Heterosexual men statistically have the least sex partners out of everyone.
We are not using women, we never have. Women have a responsibility to find someone who meets their needs. The whole men being "players" thing is a copout for attention and is mostly perpetuated by teenage girls who can get sex whenever they want.

I have honestly NEVER heard of this as a stereotype.

There you have it. WE are stereotyped as well. The only difference is that white peoples stereotypes are most often statistically unjustified.

>implying all NGers are white heterosexuals.
>Implying that that's even a stereotype people have

At 8/18/13 03:59 PM, Cynical-Charlotte wrote: I found a graphic illustrating the most obvious similarities among the major Flood traditions when compared to that of the Hebrews. I believe it was adapted from Bryon Nelson's The Deluge Story in Stone. If this was an actual project for my course, I'd probably create one myself with even more columns because I believe there is more to be discovered. But, this is a great visualization. It is worth noting that they are in or near unanimous agreement with the destruction method, scale, and escape vessel. Were these separate accounts of localized floods, I do not presume each group of people would be confused as to what constitutes totality - especially considering the idea that one family implicitly repopulates the world in many of the tales.

This picture really bugs me. First off, the first four columns probably all stem from the same story, the cultures being neighbours, so that much is highly misleading.

Secondly, most the rows are redundancies there to give the illusion of abundant evidence, as many of the rows imply each other (ie: "survivors worship" and "divine favour on those saved", or "men in transgression" and "divine destruction"). "Humans saved" seems pretty obligatory, given that if they weren't there wouldn't be a myth. "Destruction by water" seems just straight stupid: if it's a flood, it would be pretty freakin' weird if this box was unchecked.

Thirdly, a lot of the myths are oversimplified. Take the Indian myth for instance (it's the only one I'm really familiar with): It's listed as divine destruction, but it is never said in the Puranas that Shiva had any hand in the flood at all, and it certainly wasn't done to wipe mankind out (they made a point of warning them). The favoured family bit is also bogus: the entire human race was saved. And I have never heard or read any version of the story where Manu sent out birds. SO, BASICALLY: The world flooded, Manu built a boat and they went to the only bit of land left above the water. If we're talking straight that's only two pieces of actual similarity which just seem fairly common sense.

Fourthly, all the cultures with arks bordered the sea and were a seafaring people. It seems more likely that the people coming up with the myth in those cultures just thought boats would be a nifty way around a big flood.

So all in all:

- A lot of the cultures in that picture were neighbours, I can only see six distinct peoples on the list (mesopotamian, mesoamerican, polynesian, semitic, east european and mediterranean).
- Most the rows are bogus categories and even the mildly unusual ones that would slightly contradict common sense go largely unticked (see: animals saved).
- A lot of the details the picture says match up actually don't when you check your facts.
- Specifics of the myths are clearly localised to each group, suggesting that it is a number of similar local myths rather than one objective truth.

At 8/18/13 02:51 PM, Light wrote: I admit that the similarity in responses is astonishing and somewhat difficult for me to explain, as I am no expert in anthropology or sociology, but because there seems to be no compelling evidence as of now to substantiate the occurrence of a global flood. I suppose there's just an interesting commonality in human storytelling around the world in response to natural disasters and other life-changing events.

I also think OP oversells this, the commonalities aren't that striking. Literally the only thing all the stories he mentions have in common is that there was a big flood. Sometimes this was rain, sometimes it was waves. Sometimes it was punishment, sometimes it was simply an unintended consequence.

The only really strong similarity I can see is between the Hebrews and the Babylonians. They are both probably based on some common Mesopotamian myth following a flood in that region, given how close the two cultures are.

What would sell this for me, OP, is off a number of completely landlocked cultures that had no chance of experiencing giant floods had the same myth. If, for example, the same myth was told in Mongolia, the Congo and Central Russia I would be a little more curious. But even then, like I've said, geology has ruled out the possibility of a world wide flood.

Thing is for me, geology has already ruled out the possibility of an actual worldwide flood.

It's also worth pointing out how many of these cultures had gods based on water imagery and the Hindus had their whole cosmology based on it. Floods were also rarely the only catastrophe mentioned, and depending on the region you also got whatever disasters their people would have seen (great fires, earthquakes and the occasional volcano). All the people you mentioned just happened to live near a large body of water.

Floods hold a special place in our psyche though; I think this would be because of our dichotomy between land and water. The fear of land turning to water is the fear of instability. Water also falls from the heavens bringing life giving it a godlike quality, making a flood an especially suitable symbol for divine judgement.

tl;dr it ain't necessarily so

At 8/15/13 01:48 PM, lgnxhll wrote: windows

I suggest a piratebay mirror.

Windows or mac?

DOUBLE POST FOR MY MAN TEQ

At 8/8/13 10:16 PM, Teqneek wrote: A "True Successor" to Eminem would be someone controversial, with similar pacing, enthusiasm, and craziness. I can't really think of anyone out now who could become as big as Eminem. But that doesn't mean I personally think he's the "best ever". Na'mean dawg!?!?!?!?

Reading this I seriously hope you've heard the new RA. Given all his beats are rough boom bap compared to the catchy danceable stuff Dre would cook up for Em. Ill Bill could maybe rival Em on your angles, and maybe a younger Hopsin. IDK.

At 8/8/13 03:43 AM, benjadaninja wrote: Do you think anyone in the future of hip-hop will ever be as good as Eminem was in his prime? I seriously don't know.

Inb4 eminem sux

Eminem was good, but even if we're just sticking with caucasian rappers using lots of multis Eyedea, Slug, Aesop Rock and RA the Rugged Man do that shit better. Eminem changed the standard flow of our time, no doubt about it, but he wasn't the best at the whole badass midwestern style, and some golden age East Coasters did that before him.

IMHO this guy does everything Eminem did well better. Midwest FTW.

At 8/11/13 03:47 AM, Grimdalus wrote: Jesus was a communist. He treated everyone the same.

Treating everyone the same =/= communism. Making everyone the same would be closer, but I doubt Jesus would have seen any utopian solution in government rather than religion.

At 8/11/13 01:09 PM, BigRed wrote: Gets shit all innovative up in this biatch.

Shit just got all innovative up in this biatch! Mark best be taking notes. Also, I'm an ego tripping narcissistic cunt so I rapgenius'd my battle with Prom. We gonna rapgenius other battles?

Ann Coulter? Really?! Well, each to their own I guess.

Immortal Technique is incredible I guess, makes his living as a political commentator and puts the profits into orphanages in Afghanistan and stuff. Akala's great too, I live in London and both his youth projects and his music have a really strong effect on a lot of people. Down the traditional avenues though Peter Tatchell's great, Nick Cohen's great but everyone else seems a little too partisan.

I like Peter Tatchell because he's been a lifelong activist who never got lost in the quagmire of the British Left, stayed sensible and almost always came out on the right side of history. He's been down in the dirt of local activism, overseas in the bloodier protests in Russia and the like and kept intellectual, out giving lectures. I've even met the guy briefly, honestly I was astounded by how calm and humble he was for such a die-hard activist. Someone like Alex Jones wouldn't be the same, for certain.

I like Nick Cohen because intellectually he's been the embodiment of the british old left throughout the swings of partisan politics, often the biggest critic of the left itself. He's one of the few leftists left who has never been afraid to call out fascism wherever it comes from, and one of the few left standing up for the British (and international) working class. He's certainly the most sensible of the ones left.

At 8/9/13 03:27 AM, PrometheusTheTitan wrote: ax, you have a good 90% chance of winning. I'm better at rapping, but you have a better chance at winning.

#SADBOY4LYFE #BLACKEMINEM #BEEBATHAGAWD #HASHTAGRAP #QUEENOFTHEHILL

LOL we'll see mate, was a good battle either way. I think it also depends on whether people get which bars. The Sanskrit one might go over a few heads. Hashtags errywhar.

RED PLZ UPLOAD, I'M ANXIOUS ND STUFF

At 8/9/13 06:20 AM, NogginmenAnimations wrote: THAT'S IF EYE-CUE CAN DEFEAT MY MIGHTY RAPZ

Man, if Round 3 has multiple brits, it'll be a pretty special year.

At 8/9/13 12:41 PM, Rampant wrote: I wouldn't be so sure. My last two opponents got scurred and dropped out, and I'm pretty sure the Masochist killed himself 'cos he was so terrified.

What actually happened with Masochist?! Bro was all "fuck drop outs, you have to be able to commit" and then... Dropped out. I hope he isn't in hospital or some shit.

At 8/8/13 07:29 PM, Teqneek wrote: Just noticed something crazy, but 3/4 of Problem Child (Teqneek, Rampant, Axtekk) are most likely advancing to the semis. All on the same side of the bracket. Shit would've been awesome-er if Byron decided to enter...

We're all going to have to kill each other off. I think I have a 65% chance of winning my battle with Prom provided people look past the accent, so then it would be me killing off Rampant and then facing you if you beat Butsaay.

Speaking for myself though, IF I beat Prom I will have had an easy route, one opponent dropping out on me, and then Rampant (no offence at all Rampant, I <3 U) and then a guaranteed place in the top 4. I think I would've preferred TK to enter, merk me, and give Breaker/ Luke James/ Eye Cue a run for his money in the final.

At 8/8/13 02:34 PM, Camarohusky wrote: While I think Migel's definition of being 99% to war is a bit over doing it, his definition is definitely much much closer than the current US Russia relations. Think South Korea and North Korea as a better definition of a very hot Cold War.

Or Iran and Israel for a much cooler version. Obama's started using cold war language to reduce the Snowden debacle to foreign relations between USA and Russia and detract from it's wider implications. Better for him if people are angry at Russia rather than angry at America.

At 8/7/13 07:34 PM, DJDureagon wrote: I'm realizing now that I've trolled everyone with these beats and I'm sorry. I've got a lot to learn about making music.

Homie your beats are freaking dope. It's just that the better you get the more room for improvement you see in your own work. What your feeling is just axioms one and three of the Dunning-Kruger effect flipped up: the failure of a competent person to recognise his own competency.

This is good, it makes us push harder right? And don't diss yourself too hard lol because cats like me look up to your standard and really have no hope if you are hopeless.

At 8/7/13 11:21 AM, NogginmenAnimations wrote: Aye, but you should still be able to just drop in and say something, rather than disappearing from the face of the Earth. Sure, sometimes shit happens which doesn't permit you to do this, life > clabtrap and all that, but still, it's just courteous to excuse yourself (also if you don't want people to call you a bitch, you better have an excuse for ducking, no?).

Yeah, definitely agree but I think whether or not you feel the need to justify yourself to Clab comes solely down to how involved you are in the community. Given that, I think it'd be wrong to penalise people for being more casual about shit and not being massive members of the community side. Agreed on the courtesy thing though, definitely, even if it's just a PM to Red on day 4 that shit just shows that you appreciate the trouble some guys are going to over this.

At 8/7/13 08:32 AM, NogginmenAnimations wrote:

At 8/6/13 10:35 PM, KillBillvolume2 wrote: Yo, i dont mean to sound disrespectful, but you dont know whats going on in their lives and shit. I'm not acting like I know, either. I'm just saying, speaking from experience of having to bow out of tourneys, shit happens.

I'm with you on this, but they could at least say something. It's a little unfair to everybody to just leave them waiting. If you come and say "Yo, I really can't do this now, life etc" then nobody really minds, it's all the being fucked around that gets frustrating, I think.

Small problem with this is that for a lot of dudes there's a great deal of room for uncertainty. Like I have to try and figure out when my brother's in and out to get a recording slot and that can change right at the last minute. I can't even imagine how much uncertainty dudes like Mark have when they've got a family to base recording time around. I don't like the idea of penalising people because life throws a curveball at them.

Also, inb4 vested interest, I got my verse to Red today. Me and Prometheus should be up soon you overly privileged homosexuals.

K guys, here's the dealio if people are gonna be wondering what's happened:

I just got Prometheus's battle back. It's on me now, BUT I'm catching a flight to Spain tomorrow and'll be there until Wednesday. It's kinda sad but I made sure I sent Prom my verse (on my 3rd day, admittedly) with plenty of time so that if he got it back to me within the three days I'd be able to record. He got it back to me on day 5 (I'm sure the dude had his reasons, I'm not being a bitch about it) so now if I can't record a one take tomorrow morning I'm FUKT until Wednesday.

I've written all my bars. All the bars for this battle are written, and I have no problem posting them if Red needs proof that the battle in terms of lyrics is done. Prometheus vs AxTekk with two 16s is happening it just might take a while now because me and Prometheus both ran into complications. If it isn't recorded by tomorrow it's going to be recorded as soon as I'm back on british soil.

I'm really sorry for the delay guys. I only ask you bear with me. This really is a one off, Red'll tell you I had my battle with Wwwoodwing done the same day the bracket got posted. I haven't pussied out.

At 7/27/13 08:38 PM, Rampant wrote: Secondly, it's official: after hearing my verse, Masochist has gone into hiding. I wouldn't be surprised if he permanently deleted himself from the internet and went into full TK Meltdown mode.

Don't fight guys, Round 3 will be around soon enough to take care of any leftovers.

At 7/26/13 09:25 PM, AlienDude30 wrote:

At 7/25/13 10:30 PM, NordicThunder88 wrote: Well white people commit crimes against white people too, who cares.

Yeah but they're not offing eachother in large numbers all across America. I mean look at statistics, it's one in every three black males in some phase of correctional facility. Is it a coincidence or do they just have a racial commitment to crime?

Akala's two cents are pretty interesting actually.

At 7/25/13 10:32 PM, Camarohusky wrote: By Hindu, do you mean South Asian? Or are all the people actually Hindu? (FYI, a significant portion of the population of the South Asian subcontinent is NOT Hindu.)

I mean Hindu bro, as in go to Neasden temple for religious events and celebrate Diwali. Of course, not all of the South Asian people are Hindu or Muslim, but there is a large Hindu population and a large Muslim population. Less so in places like Pinner Green and Stanmore which are more Jewish.

You will also notice that contrary to far right predictions Harrow is yet to fall into abject race war/ become an Al Qaeda stronghold. Harrow's a pretty shitty place to live to be honest, but diversity certainly isn't the reason for that.

At 7/25/13 02:39 PM, Earfetish wrote: I know they look alike, but wikipedia makes it sound like you live in a very Hindu area:

22.0% Indian
2.5% Pakistani

According to the 2011 census 25.3% of Harrows population identified as Hindu

Lol that's mostly North Harrow, I live further down towards Sudbury. That being said, it is still a very Hindu area as well.

At 7/25/13 01:23 PM, lapis wrote: And it's this not-quite-liberal doctrinal thought that is on the rise within Muslim immigrant communities in Western Europe and which can be linked to problems facing these communities.

...I wouldn't disagree. I honestly didn't know this was the discussion we were having. I don't know though, I live in a very Muslim area and the Muslims I'm friends with aren't even vaguely militant. Yeah, extremists exist, and I don't live in somewhere like Bradford, but I think it's far too easy to get panicked by this stuff.

Also, Jewish orthodoxy doesn't always lead to a hardline stance in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Satmar group, which is ultra-orthodox and numbers over a 100,000 adherents, is in fact opposed to Zionism.

This is really, really interesting. I suppose I spoke to soon.

At 7/25/13 05:21 AM, lapis wrote: Maybe, but the Old Testament doesn't have much relavance anymore.

I think on the whole you're right: Religion was very different for Jews than Muslims; in the days of early Judaism Yahweh was just god of the tribe, whereas by the time Islam came on the scene religion had bigger ideas. I'd also agree that the Quran makes it annoyingly easy for jihadists to claim divine cause (probably because Muhammed was essentially a military leader at a time of interfaith war not entirely instigated by Islam).

However, one thing I would say is that the exclusivity stressed in the Old Testament literature and the racial outlook of it also gives Israeli hardliners the same kind of excuses. That is the one thing I would say about it's relevance.

At 7/24/13 02:31 PM, Earfetish wrote: The New Testament is also not a good book but to be completely frank, my opinion is that the Qur'an is more unpleasant than the New Testament.

Ain't got shit on the Old Testament though imho (at least, definitely not Numbers and Deuteronomy). Try Bhagavad Gita, I'm no Hindu but that is some scripture that makes sense. Diamond and Heart sutras are pretty god darn incredible too.

At 7/24/13 09:22 AM, poxpower wrote: There's a much more reasonable explanation and it's brain sizes and cortical neurons. Australian aborigines have the smallest brains out of all groups and asians have the biggest ones.
Brain size and intelligence correlate.

This, I have to say, is actually really interesting to look at.

On the genetic side of things, there are two genes that affect brain size and IQ.

The first one is a variant on HMGA2, the weaker of the two genes in terms of it's impact on intellect. It's also the one most responsible for intercranial volume out of the two. It is interesting to note that it is also has a strong impact on height, perhaps to be expected, but it effects intercranial volume slightly more than height, but it is worth noting p value for this is not very strong, and has been largely overstated. It's also worth noting that this gene is only thought to account for about an IQ point and a half.

The other is Rs7294919 and it increases hippocampus size. This makes sense: the hippocampus is necessary for memory, and memory is tested for on IQ tests. (Whether or not memory is interchangeable with intellect is up to you... I understand the case for it, but it's always been the part I've scored worst for on IQ tests so I have kind of a vendetta against it!) However, there a couple of things worth mentioning here: memory techniques like pegging systems can increase the effectiveness of a person's memory greatly, and genii from recent times (some of relative celebrity) and also of past times attributed a large amount of their ability to their memory techniques and exercises. Moreover, Maguire's famous 1997 study on black cab drivers demonstrated the elasticity of the hippocampus, as the physiology changed with time allowing the prosterior hippocampus to grow greatly in size (providing it is used well and often). This leads me to say that while this gene gives some people a marked advantage, it's hardly creating an unbridgeable gap between races.

tl;dr Shit's hella interesting, but I don't think it accounts for quite the gap in racial intelligence Pox takes it to. Idk about the epigenetic side though...

Oh, and some stuff on creativity.

At 7/24/13 02:00 AM, Revo357912 wrote:

At 7/24/13 12:56 AM, poxpower wrote:

At 7/24/13 12:39 AM, Revo357912 wrote: On another note though, IQ is actually not a perfect measure of intelligence, and does not really factor in creativity, which is an important factor when it comes to advancements in science.

Well come up with a way to measure creativity and I bet you it heavily correlates with intelligence.

Until it does, there is no way to know, but it is hard to be sure. I would assume many artists would be highly intelligent if such were the case, but have not looked into the IQ range of artists.

Actually, there is a large body of research showing creativity to be largely environmental (Harrington 1999, McRae 1997, Ekval 1999 are the first ones I could find in my old EPQ notes), and although all psychologists agree IQ below 70 is highly detrimental to creativity, after that the correlation weakens greatly and seems to have more to do with how a good learning environment with plenty of resources = more IQ and more creativity. This is supported by the fact that when you surpass an IQ of 120, getting to those classified as âEUoegiftedâEU by the IQ system, any further correlation with creativity vanishes completely.

The reason for this isn't so much that creativity has nothing to do with intellect as it is that IQ and creativity are two different dimensions of intellect and require different kinds of tests (although Pox would have you believe otherwise, the vast majority of academic opinion is that IQ is not the full picture of intellect at all). See why here and see here how one of the divergent thinking tests Kaufman talks about (the TCTT) is better than IQ at predicting creative achievement (even in writing despite the obvious advantage writers will have with verbal reasoning). Furthermore, success in creative fields like music and art have also been shown to have a lot more to do with deliberate practice than natural talent by a whole slew of recent books and articles (my personal favourites being: Talent Is Overrated by Geoff Colvin and this gloriously free article by K Anders Ericsson).