At 7/9/08 09:57 PM, drDAK wrote:

At 7/9/08 04:13 PM, Propane wrote: Yes the bible is still relevant to people who believe in it.

Just like the boogeyman is relevant to people who believe in it.

Do not diss the boogeyman.

I still hold true to the oil well theory. Given that the description generally involves (biblical figure) being engulfed suddenly by flames..... perhaps an unfortunate choice of location for a smoke?

Interpretation is the key......which got thrown away AGES ago.

Preferably, no country would have them. That includes the US.

Yellowcake is no threat, move on from allegations of weapons. The most harm you can do with it is either putting it under someones desk (killing by radiation) or in someones tea (killing by very very nasty poisoning). Or throwing it at someone. Not in a WMD.

Dirty bombs....piffle. Yellowcake is useless. Even uranium is useless in them (IT BURNS. YOU CANNOT PUT SOMETHING THAT BURNS IN A BOMB AND EXPECT IT TO SURVIVE. ALSO IT IS TOO HEAVY.). Thallium is the real thing that you'd use in a dirty bomb.

Claims about nerve gases etc being in Iraq........the stockpiles were either blasted to hell in the Gulf War or dismantled shortly afterwards. Any leftovers would have broken down. You cannot store most nerve agents for longer than 6 months to a year. 2 or 3 at the most. A few DO last for a long time......but Saddam never seemed to have them. Sarin was his thing, and sarin lasts next to no time in storage, its chemically unstable, you cannot change that.

So:
Yellowcake: Yes.
Nukes:No.
Biological Agents: No (probably, maybe a little bit of natural anthrax deep under a field somewhere, but that aint a weapon)
Sarin: No. Even if Saddam had it stored, it would have broken down into more stable (and harmless) chemicals
Other Nerve Agents: No.
Mustard Gas (Saddams other favourite): No. it was destroyed in the Gulf War or shortly afterwards.
Other chemical Agents: Apart from tear gas, No.

So.....

WMD in Iraq?: No

Ok:

1. Yellowcake is not weapons material. You need enriched material. This requires a reactor. Which did not in fact exist.
2. Most modern nukes do NOT use plutonium OR enriched uranium. They use both, in layers. Like an onion. Hence there is liitle risk from uranium storage. Its production of enriched uranium and/or plutonium thats the real thing to look for. Either can make a bomb, both DEFINATELY means weapons production (well......90% chance or so).
3. Yellowcake is hellishly hard to mine and process. Let me tell you about it, all this is true: It is very radioactive (which kills you), it forms dust which is both poisonous and radioactive (which kills you) and is one of the most poisonous substances on earth, because it contains uranium oxide (which kills you, even before the radiation has time to get started) and actual uranium which also kills you, in a similar way.) it also has a tiny amount of impurities which are also radioactive and poisonous (and kill you). It also requires a rather complicated process to mine safely. It is HARD to make it into uranium metal, as an added bonus. Then of course, its on to enrichment itself, which can take over a year AFTER you have the reactor.
4. Saddam knew that if he got found to have actual facilities, the USAF would send over an F-117 with a pair of BLU-109B penetrating bombs. I doubt he would want that to happen.
5. Yellowcake is storable, very storable. It doesnt catch fire like actual uranium metal, and if you seal off the stuff in some way, you can have it stowed away quite safely.
6. Yellowcake is expensive, and hence very tradable. Even if Saddam had origionally wanted nukes, he could have decided instead to trade it. Though this would not exactly have been a nice thing, given who he would have sold it to (Iran? Hamas? Who knows?)....
7. Nukes are rubbish weapons in the first place. Saddam seems to have prefered to stockpile chemical agents. Bio agents are hard to store, nukes are hard to keep and impossible to use..... no. Saddam was into Nerve agents. Sarin and the like. The sort of thing that kills in a few minutes at the worst (the best is a lot faster).

And the removal? Its because the stuff is DANGEROUS. Both as an ore, and as a metal, uranium is hellishly nasty stuff. And if gets left around.....who knows what can happen to the damned stuff?

Plus the stuff, being expensive, can be sold to some other country (my bet is the US, but it could be any other nuclear nation) with good profits for the Iraqi Government.

Not cause for invasion. I have SEEN yellowcake. Not much, and I was well away (I HATE the stuff, its bloody nasty) from it. When last I looked, there were no calls for the invasion of a small museum in New Zealand.....

Rather vague question..... "Is it relevant?".....

Is it relevant: Yes.
Should we take everything as written: No.
Should we regard it as complete fact: No
Should we regard it as the ultimate lifestyle guide: No.
Should we USE it as the ultimate lifestyle guide: No.

Some stuff is quite good. Some is not. The bible is old, it was never really kept properly (hand-copying+ constant minor rewrites over 2000+ years take a toll on accuracy) and it self-contradicts itself a LOT. Its still the greatest book ever, purely through its own history.

It isn't a computer program for robots, I have yet to see a "When Sensor A detects value 37, rotate moter 3 at power=76% for 3.9 seconds" type passage in the Bible. Of course, I may just have missed it, If I have, please PM me the position in the bible, also which type of bible. It needs interpretation.....and a little common sense. Which of course, is a feature that robots (and certain people I know, not NGers, just people) lack entirely.

Its a story.....parts are true......parts are not. It's not that hard to find the bits that are too nonsensical for modern use. Stoning your neighbours to death is generally a bad idea, as is burning people. Also, washing peoples feet for no apparant reason will make you look stupid and/or insane.

And, as a totally unrelated fact, given all the evidence: the location involved, the description given and various other factors.....

Its clear the whole "rising into heaven on a pillar of flame" thing is based on some rather unfortunate incidents involving accidental ignition of oil wells. Or alien teleportation rays. Either would give the recorded results. Broadly speaking, at least.

Don't base your life entirely and completely on the bible. You will have a beard longer than a bus and spend your time eating fish and smoking "medicinal herbs" in a desert while wearing a nightie and smelling like a goat. (And yes, it has been proven that such a herb DOES grow where Moses recieved the 10 Commandments. Look it up)

Common sense........why is it so unpopular? Is it taxed in some way?

At 6/27/08 10:46 PM, GunnerX86 wrote: Within a week we could conquer England.

I wouldn't overly recommend it.

Oh the irony of this thread.... and the replies from various americans......

the words "arrogant" and "insulting" spring to mind for some totally irrelevant reason...

I need some popcorn......and a deckchair. THIS is THEATRE!

No, but I like imitating them to get laughs from family/friends.

Like that "garden gnome" rock on mars. That was fun to spoof.

Add-on:

Oh yes, and they have extremely aggresive policies towards other countries AND have a titanically useless amount of thermonuclear weapons.

And recently voided Mutual Assured Destruction, thinking it was a good idea.

Weeeeel......there isnt any ONE reason why people (at least where I live) tend to dislike the US.

But a few that I can think of immediately:

1. Foreign Policy, or lack thereof.
2. Iraq, although it IS better ATM than it was at some stages.
3.Bush. Not one person I know likes bush.
4. Gun control. The old issue. It is not logical to allow people to own machine guns. The situation is because of a badly worded section of the Constitution (the right to carry/have/whatever arms.) that was invented to cover an issue that no longer exists.
5. Internal issues. All of them. from health care to police to the military to the huge number of school shootings. Not that many issues that AREN'T negative reach people overseas.
6. Imperialism. No I am not communist. I despise communism. But the USSR was right when it always used to describe the US as "imperialist". It is. If you look at policy, actions and the mindset of a large proportion of the populace, it is VERY similar to the old British Empire, arrogant, self-centred and extremely powerful and knowing ALLLL about it.

Not that I HATE the US.......I actually don't mind it at all. Better than the PRC certainly. But you guys certainly have one hell of a strange country.

At 6/4/08 05:15 PM, SolInvictus wrote:

At 6/4/08 05:00 PM, ZOMG3 wrote: I have a life ahead of me. Canada, Great Britain, Australia, New Zealand is the places to go. Their people are warm and friendly.

because warm and friendly people is the only thing that counts when attempting to make a living.

Too right mate ;)

I am seriously enjoying this......from my little country here (New Zealand, if you must ask) I can sit here and think "well, at least MY country actually AGREES on whether we have an issue."

ZOMG3 actually has some pretty good points from where I'm sittin'. And don't call me biased because I'm not American, you cant claim NOT to be biased through being American. That makes about as much sense as some of George Bush's more famous cock-ups.

Though of course, I am biased through not particularly liking the US....but oh well, that isn't about the country, just the political situation.And certain laws which are somewhat suicidal. But those aren't really that relevant.

Now.....where in NG may I find a deckchair and some popcorn?.......I need to watch and laugh at the flaming...

Goreans, Gorons.........same difference.

And just pretend I don't exist...... or that Opoho/NEV is a separate town..........

Addon:

Gorrrrre is also a district around the town. The entire district has a population of about 13K, so when gore anounces proudly that it's the second largest town in southland, it isnt really sdaying that much ;)

Australia should be dissolved and become a new region of New Zealand. As should the Peoples Republic of China;)

Just a few things I don't get:
1. Military....yes, with ex-Vietnam APCs and 12 choppers total.....this is good HOW? (Yes, I know the SAS is damned good, and whatever unit has those new antitank missile launchers,but the main section is sorta bad on equipment)

2. Peaceful?!! You guys obviously haven't seen my various assorted 'volatiles'.....

And every school worth half a cent has enough illegal experiments to......well........blow up something?...I dunno.....something like that anyway.

And we have the great city of GORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRE! ;)

To those not in on New Zealand culture, Gore is widely regarded by people who dont live there as a hole. Like many southlanders, Goreans tend to rrrroll theirrrr Rrrrrrrrs.

Being politically correct is only good when it is used to make fun of politicians.

Racism will ALWAYS happen, no matter where you go. Europe, america......even here in New Zealand theres enough racism to power an aircraft carrier....it's not going to stop, much as many people (myself included) would like it to.

This reminds me of an incident in the NZ parliament a few years back, some person quoted a teenager who said the government was doing sweet bugger all on some issue. Other party guy critisised him for it and said he shouldn't be swearing at all, even when quoting. He then went on to hammer a really popular car add, the only words being "bugger". The company quickly changed the add to feature "Poo","damn", "darn it" and a few others I cant remember....

Big drama, on all the news programs, all the in depth reporting....

A week later the MP apologised for what he said...
A perfect example of political correctness gone too far and how people react to it.

Only bad thing being that they pulled the add after that... :(

It was a really good add at that.....

*sigh*

Whether or not the actual entity exists is superfluous. All that matters is it gives people SOMETHING to believe in. For all it may just be a load of rubbish made up by bearded lunatics in towels after sampling some special desert plants (they found some near a place in the Bible that were quite strong hallucinogens), it's lasted over 2000 years. If it wasn't worth keeping, people MIGHT have dumped it. When Christianity was the only religion in most of Europe, people didn't have much to do, church filled in that time, kept moral up in hard times (usually), kept records, preserved knowledge AND played quite a big role in the economy. Long time ago, but it counts for something.

I have no problem with religion, if there is a god, he/she/it doesnt bother me and, with a bit of luck, I reciprocate. If there ISNT a god, then I have wasted one hell of a lot of time in church services over the years.

In actual fact, I am neutral on the issue of gods. Give me absolute and total proof that a god, any god, exists or does not exist, and I will gladly accept it. However absolute and total proof is pretty hard to come by these days....

Just dont get me started about fundamentalists. And extremist groups. Generally I don't like them. And scientology. And people in dressing gowns, even though this does include myself at some times since I am in a church choir. And reliever ministers......