The only way to be 'original', to me, is not to worry about being original and try and channel yourself into your music. We're all the product of our influences at the end of the day. I do think though that you have to make an effort to broaden the pool of those little musical snippets that float in your subconscious.
Off the top of the head...
Alexandre Desplat
Grant Kirkhope
John Powell
Dvorak
Jerry Goldsmith
Hans Zimmer
There are loads of great musicians on here. I echo others who say they're too numerous to name. I'm still pretty new here and I had a great time competing in the recent music contest and listening to tons of great pieces or talking to some cool artists. I'm still genuinely surprised at the level of talent and it makes me want to up my game.
At 6/21/14 12:07 AM, Phonometrologist wrote: I want to reiterate that your enjoyment and purpose in creating music should NOT be contingent upon encouragement, flattery, or the lack thereof.
This is completely true. But on the other hand, encouragement, criticism, compliments et al. are a big motivating factor for most artists. Everyone has egos! In my short enough time here I've listened to loads of music, and I attempt to leave helpful reviews on pieces that maybe not a lot of people listen to. Most people like feedback, so I can understand where the person to whom you were replying is coming from. Perhaps maybe a bit of encouragement will push someone on to realise their potential someday.
I watched the first one on the french horn.
It was alright, but I was a little disappointed. I appreciate the time it took to put these together, but I found it a very shallow analysis and the kind of information was the sort of basic stuff anyone who writes orchestral music should already know i.e. how mutes work, not writing fast moving lines in the lower ranges. For a beginner, probably a good little introduction. For a more seasoned or intermediate person looking for some unique insights, a bit disappointing.
At 5/27/14 08:14 AM, MrBigglesworthMusic wrote: It's kinda sad that a lot of games on xbox 360 and ps3 don't have especially good soundtracks, those are usually what make games really memorable for me.
I find the same. It's probably a combination of things. Rose-tinted nostalgia being one of them, after-all, there were plenty of crap soundtracks in the old days, and we don't tend to remember those! I also think however, that as technology has gotten better, and more 'realistic', the compositions themselves, in general, have decreased in memorable quality. Having a limited palette to work with can do wonders for your creativity, and I think that's what happened with a lot of those older tunes. Without being able to impress with simply the sheer sound, what else could you do but whip up a catchy tune? Now, we all have the samples, so it's easy to generate a decent sounding orchestra. But it's not easy to write memorable tunes. That takes a certain knack.
There's also the recent trends of course, towards more sound design-ish music, which of course, has its place too, but isn't as immediately memorable even if it is effective in the game.
My music has been in videos with hundreds of thousands of views. It doesn't make the offers come raining in!
'Exposure' is important but hard money is 90% of the time more valuable. Thequality of exposure tends to be more important, and I think simply hanging out in creative communities does more to expose your work to other people who would be interested in commissioning you or collaborating, than sheer view count.
I think the reason you've got a bit of a hostile response is as others have said, music takes time and effort. Understandably if you're just developing your first little game, money might be an issue, but there are ways around it. Not to get into specifics, but some broad suggestions that might have garnered you a more positive response:
(a) You'd offered a percentage of ad revenue, as someone suggested. I think starting at 25% is reasonable for a game of a small scale with a very low earning ceiling, though I would insist on higher personally.
(b) You'd offered a guaranteed deferred payment i.e. the first €X the game makes goes to the musician
(c) You offer a partial upfront payment combined with any of the other two.
(d) You offer at least a small nominal payment €30 or such.
I guarantee if you offered (d), someone would be happy to knock around for a couple of hours and whip you up a track. And given that you're paying, you'd have more input and say into the final product, you'd get to demand a certain quality of product. Free doesn't give you any rights at all. Surely you respect your game more than that? If you believe in your game, then invest in a certain level of quality.
All the best with your game.
At 5/22/14 12:30 AM, OpenLight wrote: As I'm sure you might agree, $500 is a pretty substantial investment, especially for someone's first purchase of this sort, so I want to be sure about this. Any opinions on this product?
It certainly is a massive investment. Other people have talked eloquently about the products, so I'll give my two cents on whether spending $500 at this point in time is worth your while, based on my experience:
You talk about wanting to "wanting to become a better composer gradually". No one has any idea of your ability to write orchestral music, so please don't take the following as patronising, it's my opinion (you might be mozart!):
Others have made good suggestions about software, but I would make the more general point that none of these software tools will be worth your investment, particularly given you're looking to become a professional, unless you're already a fairly competent composer and are willing to put in the work to become better and learn the ropes (it sounds like you are). In my experience, I've seen a lot of young composers who I think get access to these tools before they're ready, and can only generate mediocre compositions which have a superficially 'good' sound, only because of the samples themselves. There is a level of musical understanding you need to have to make any valuable use of a professional sample library. I say this not to discourage you, but to present a simple truth. Everyone, with a bit of saving up, can afford these samples these days, and it takes minimal effort to crank out a generic trailer-sounding track. As a professional, or semi-professional, you're competing with thousands and thousands of others who are all gonna have the same tools and samples. So really, what is going to make your work stand out? Only your compositional ability (and production skills). It's a big purchase so one must think carefully about it.
Assuming you have such understanding and stand to benefit from upgrading your gear, well everyone else has given great advice on specific software. If you go EWQLSO avoid silver, it's rubbish. Hollywood Strings is great but you'll have to get your solos elsewhere. Vienna sample libraries are gorgeous. Good luck with your music!
In my experience, rates are seldom publically-discussed.
Interesting thread, I'm always curious about other people's processes.
The central part of my process is really looking for an idea, the fundamental core of the music, and often this comes down to the smallest fragment, be it a simple melodic line or a handful of notes or a tone. Once I have my idea, I begin exploring it, as I hear it in my head, writing it out, finding the rhythm and dynamics of the piece, tapping into its flow. It is important to me that I allow myself to write without any filters at this stage. Everything gets thrown down, the good and the mediocre. I find every time I try and write something immediately wonderful, I end up just locking up and writing nothing, or just writing something generic.
Ithenchallenge what I've written, what point is this statement making, could this phrase be tighter, is this too repetitive etc. and I begin tightening the arrangement, working out my synch points, making sure the energy flow is right, could some of those chords be more interesting, why is that note there? It took me a few years of writing to realise how difficult writing truly good music is, and how ruthless one must be with their own work to have a chance of getting to that level: if that section doesn't work, rip it out and write something else. Don't settle for mediocre. Is that rhythm that I liked not quite in keeping with the rest of the track, modify or remove, don't leave it in there and attempt to explain it away later. Every note, every phrase, every instrument, every choice I make, needs to be deliberate. You do need a bit of a ruthless streak in my opinion, and need to be prepared to do the hours of dirty, gritty, frustrating, getting to your absolute wit's end about why won't this absolute f**cker of a section work to improve yourself, and have the chance to write something great. The second you say 'that'll do', well, you've lost really.
It really then just becomes an iterative process until I get a piece of music I'm relatively happy with, or I hit the deadline.
This is a bit of a tangent, but it kind of informs my whole way of writing music: I truly believe ideas are the most important parts of any music, but particularlyin the cinematic genre. I do the actual writing with really ropey samples because it's important I don't get distracted by the pretty sounds a sample library makes, and fool myself into thinking the rubbish violin line I've written is actually great because the sample itself is great. We all have the same nice sample libraries these days, so what is going to separate your music out, other than its ideas. Unfortunately I find a lot of music to be lacking in this department. Well-produced but ultimately empty music, going through some basically pleasant-sounding progressions without any connecting threads or ideas, essentially sounding like 'library' tracks. Music like that, to me at least, will only ever evoke superficial emotions ('this is the sad bit', 'this is the action bit'). Unfortunately, a lot of producers seem content with this sound, it seems to be what's in vogue.
For my contest track, the composition and arrangement took in the region of 30-40 hours, the orchestration and production elements 20-30 hours. I find the composition hard to put a solid number on though, I'm sure everyone knows about how you get a burst of inspiration where everything seems to just be writing itself, and then those moments where everything sounds crap and isn't working. I would say about 2/3rd of my time spent on the track was two points that I just couldn't work out for the longest time. I had a general structure in mind, but no matter what I tried, the parts just didn't seem to work. I did arrangement after arrangement, tweaking, adjusting, disposing. Problems such as material that didn't sound like part of the track, or struck not quite the right tone and some that was just plain rubbish. And then of course, out of (seemingly) nowhere, it clicks, you realise what you want and the track goes back to writing itself. But in my opinion it's that hard graft that makes something ascend mediocrity. Not being willing to settle for 'this will do'.
A lot of my time is spent on details as well. Something that I learned while studying physics in university, was the value of specificity - about making sure what you're saying has a point. It's probably one of the most valuable things I've ever learnt and it informs my general attitude as well as how I write scripts and how I compose my music. When it comes to script-writing, I ask myself 'does this line have a point?'. If it doesn't, it goes. I suppose the analogue of that in musical terms is considering every element of your piece asking what it contributes. I don't ever put out something loose. Every single note, progression, chord, dynamic has been thought about and considered and is there for a reason. More specifically, they should add something to the piece, rather than simply sit there having no impact, or even worse detracting. It goes back to the hard graft - if something you've written could be better, or isn't adding much then bin it, and write it better, don't settle for mediocre. I don't think aiming high guarantees a good piece of music, I've written my fair share of rubbish! But, I don't think you will ever realise your potential by saying 'that's good enough'.
I'd love to learn more about other people's processes and experiences with bottlenecks in tracks.
Congratulations to the winners. There were some really good pieces submitted, there's a bucket load of talent on here. And thanks to the judges for hosting the contest, hopefully there'll be more in the future.
Would love to collaborate with some artists from here some time.
At 4/9/14 04:14 PM, RealFaction wrote: On a totally unrelated topic, is anyone else absolutely sick of the TMNT videos? It's like the Flappy Bird parodies only in the movies section...like the new "thing"....nothing original, nothing funny. I'm downvoting them but I'm not a jerk for that because I think it's entirely moronic to recreate some trailer scene and then EVERYONE does it. What I don't like about NG is that 60-70% of the famous animators here now are unoriginal...sigh.....am I horrible? Idk?
Agreed. It's not 'jerk'-ish to down-vote stuff that doesn't really have a whole lot of originality or entertainment value. There are some great parodies, but 100's more disappointing one-gag, empty videos that have little reason to exist. I personally try and seek out people who do original stuff and leave critical (in the good sense of the word) reviews. Even if I don't think what they've done is that great, I try and leave some encouragement at least for trying something original. And I do try and explain why I down-vote stuff. It can suck when people just vote you down and don't explain why. My contest piece has already (within two hours or so) been 0-voted by someone, and while you can't account for taste and it's fair if people don't enjoy what you've done, it kind of makes a mockery of the rating system.
Hah, bit nerve-wracking posting when the track above is so great, none-the-less, here's mine:
Big orchestral piece written for NG 2014 Art-inspired music contest.
And the art:
ScottRogersArt.com
I'd echo the sentiments above. I'm also relatively new on Newgrounds, and while I've been writing music for a while, I haven't really gotten involved in any sound/music community.
I'm hoping to get my piece done over the next two days, it's been a real labour of love. I started off with a kind of 'ah sure, I'll give this contest a bash' kind of thing, but the art I picked is absolutely fantastic, gave me a real burst of inspiration and I felt I had to do justice to it. I'm sure it's the same for many people when you really get into a piece; you forget about the contest and just get into writing it, seeing where the art takes your music. For me, it's already been worth it. Even if by some disaster I couldn't finish on time, I've practised techniques that I'm not so strong at, written some stuff in a different style to my usual and progressed my musical learning. So thanks for holding the contest from me as well.
At 3/25/14 04:29 PM, JesseNewkirk wrote: I always have multiple open-ended compositions on the table. I begin my works by writing with soundfonts, just to get my ideas out on paper, and then later convert them into full-instrument pieces. I probably have about 15-20 in the soundfont stage right now - a little library of ideas that I could work on at any given time.
I'm quite like that as well. I write almost all of my music with some really crappy sounds, focussing on just getting some ideas down. I don't ever write using any nice sample libraries. Sure, I have the final sound in mind at all times, but I'd worry that I'd get deluded into thinking my piece is better than it is when it's being played back to me, simply because it's being rendered in real-time with say, a gorgeous Symphobia or East/West violin sample, when in reality it may be pretty mediocre. I try and get my music to be decent as a composition first and foremost, whether that's writing in a piano roll or doing it in Finale.
My uncle gave me a really great and simple bit of advice about writer's block that I've taken to heart.
Any time I was stuck on something, or going through a little rut where I just can't think of anything that's any good, I tended to drift towards negative thoughts. Thinking that I wasn't really all that talented, that all the stuff I'd composed before was just 'flukes' - down to random luck, finding decent tunes - and that I'd never write a decent track again. Frustrating.
And then of course I get that bit of inspiration, I somehow stumble onto what I was looking for, that "oh that's it!" moment and off I go, everything's all right, until the next time! Until the next time that lady luck grants me a bit of a break. My uncle told me a better way of looking at it, is to see all the frustration and flailing about with terrible melodies that aren't going anywhere, and writing nonsense, as just part of a process. It's you, your brain filtering out ideas, working stuff out subconsciously. That perhaps sometimes you need to go through that phase to get your 'eureka' moment. So now I tend to frame it more positively, rather than "I'm writing crap", it's "at least I've written something". And I don't get too flustered, or at least, not as much as I used to. Sometimes you get great days, others days where you write nothing of value. It's all just part of the process. Music has that wonderful 'magical' quality, one day you play some notes and it's a pile of hideous noise, the next, the foundation for one of the best pieces you've ever written.
Good luck with getting over your block.
I find the only part that can be reliably timed is the production side. So once I have come up with an idea, some melody or whatever, and write out my composition, and do an arrangement I'm happy with, for, say, a 3 minute orchestral track, it can take from 6 hours to 12-13-14 to properly orchestrate and mix it. I'm pretty fussy about the final result.
Coming up with an idea however can take forever. I will always find it odd how a bundle of notes can one day sound like nothing and the next be the melody you were searching for all along. Usually it's some random spark, 2,3,4 notes and all of a sudden the piece seems to 'write itself'. Does anyone else find that?
Really looking forward to participating in my first NG contest!
I finally came up with an idea for the art I picked.
Sounds like a cool idea, though I haven't been around here long. Would it just be for people who are 'established' or could newcomers join in too?
At 2/25/14 11:19 AM, Zero1996 wrote: Well when I review, I will refuse to rate a type of music I don't like. For instance I will not review metal with screamy/growl vocals.
Sometimes you do come across stuff that's just REALLY bad. Sometimes its a newbie that doesn't know how to play guitar and everybody is making fun of him. I hate when people do that, it discourages someone from continuing there musicianship. Just be nice and help while still giving criticism.
I agree with all of the above. I review other people's stuff how I'd like my stuff to be reviewed - politely, succinctly and honestly. You totally have to be conscious of not crushing someone's spirit, they could well have the potential to be excellent. Every single person who ever gets competent sucked at some point. But you do have to be honest, far better to be given suggestions made by someone polite, who shares the same spirit of self-improvement, than have some (usually talentless) asshole spit it rudely at you somewhere else down the line. Reviews are great. I'd love to have more of them, I value them more than the ratings. Someone rated one of my tracks '0' and left no explanation as to why. Fair enough if you didn't like it, but don't be a cunt - tell me why. A 0 isn't helpful to me.
I've used Soundcloud for a while but decided to start uploading here because I think there's more of a community.
On music theory, I'd suggest it's more helpful than a lot of people think. Of course just studying it won't make you necessarily a better composer. Knowing what an iv chord or any old term or concept is, in and of itself doesn't do much for you. Understanding, how and where you use such a thing does, and you can conceivably do that without knowing so, much like a child learns to speak and form sentences before knowing any of the syntax or grammar rules.
I started writing without any theory at all, it is certainly possible, but then I started studying the theory and realised the value of it. It's nice to know what's going on in your music, and it makes it far easier to identify the ideas you have in your head. Much like, to extend the child analogy, we teach children about grammar, and spelling, and whatever else, so that they can express their ideas through writing, and structure their ideas in better ways. I guess, musically, some people think that's constricting. But many of our greatest poets, for example, were masters of their tongue. How can you break the rules without knowing them first?
However, on the other hand, and to get back to the original point, no one ever learns a language by picking up a book and learning all the syntax. That's not understanding, that's not living the language. You have to speak to people, you learn by writing, writing, writing, writing, writing and writing some more, listening to other music, writing, listening, writing. A book on theory won't make you a good musician, and there's a fair amount of 'academic' music out there, which has technically 'correct' constructs but just sounds soulless and dull. But then there's plenty of pure shite from people who don't know their theory as well.
At 2/13/14 09:32 PM, ZE13 wrote: I'm writung a series! And why not make music for my own series? What's the best program you guys use? :3
Hi there. I use FL studio and Finale.
If you're only beginning, an excellent program is unimportant tbh, get some bog standard simple software, maybe a Lite version and just muck around and learn. Do some tutorials. Read stuff. Listen to stuff. De-construct other people's work. Muck around. Read. Practice. And do that for a couple months, see how you get on. The transferable musical skills are more important than the software ultimately. Good luck~
Reviewed:
For orchestra, a piece heavily inspired by the Leroy Anderson composition of the same name
Would love a review for:
Dramatic orchestral track or something.
Hi! I'm new here, I uploaded these fellas yesterday:
Hi. I might be interested, though I'm obviously new here.
Do you have any other details?
Select between 5 monster racers, upgrade your monster skill and win the competition!
4.23 / 5.00 3,881 Views
Build most powerful forces, unleash hordes of monster and control your soldiers!
3.93 / 5.00 4,634 Views
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