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Jo...ke?

This looks funny.

That is, no law abiding gun club WILL have RPGs...

Heh.

Sorry.

The point is that the Iraqi insurgency has the benefit of a global arms market, Iran, etc. They can smuggle in weapons and they have plent in hand. Americans lack things like RPGs, MANPADs, mortar and artillery shells (unless, with some serious technical ingenuity, people could make those improvised weapons like the UK Home Guard had during WWII) etc... Also, we have cultural differences. I can't see many americans putting fertilizer based explosives in their cars and driving full speed at an armed convoy...

At 6/15/07 12:02 PM, Proteas wrote: I think it's just interesting...

How so, though?

you really question wether or not the American people could put up one HELL of a fight against a rogue government intruding on their home turf?

IEDs made from fertilizer, semi-auto rifles, pistols and pump shotguns won't stop a determined rogue government. If there's a rogue government, we're screwed. I mean, it's like Shay's Rebellion, but worse, since the US government back then only outnumbered and outmaneuvered the rebels (to put them down), but now any rogue government has an exponentially better set of equipment. I mean, just compare a civillian's arsenal to a typical military base's arsenal.

No well equipped, legal, law abiding and freedom loving gun club won't have RPGs...

Did it ever occur to you...

When anyone is killed by firearms in an intentional shooting, then the people ought to call for restrictions.

If Freud is right, then it's phallic. That I very much doubt, but there is an association. This seems like it would be reenforced by culture – power brokers in politics, crime etc. smoke cigars, so anyone who smokes a cigar is seen as powerful? I dunno.

At 6/15/07 01:23 PM, HandsomePete wrote: I've heard that they want a cease fire.

Fatah, maybe. Hamas? Doubt it.

It's possible we could end up seeing three different states out of the deal, which might shut Hamas up. Then, when they actually fight Israel, the whole thing could finally be solved.

Well, the situation, as I said, brings a whole new "two state" solution to mind. It is good in the way that now the West (US, EU and Israel) can deal with Hamas and Fatah separately...and if Israel makes incursions on Gaza, there wouldn't be as many complaints, since it is now Hamas controlled...and everyone hates Hamas.

To revert back to my old username...

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

But, then again...

Sometimes it's not.

Freud FTW.

Wyoming.

Wow, you guys have issues. The Brady Campaign gives Wyoming an F, and even Texas gets a D-.

Yet there are 2.7 murders per 100,000 people in Wyoming (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/data/table_05.
html). That's an increase of OVER 20% from 2004 to 2005...

At 5/17/07 06:47 PM, JoS wrote: Israel is no fan of Fatah.

Certainly true, but the situation has changed. Apparently (or so I hear from Israelis and others), Gaza is Hamas controlled, while the West Bank is likely to be more or less Fatah dominated.

That brings a whole new meaning to the two state solution, huh?

Soldering iron.

I can't remember the last time I used one...

At 6/14/07 03:03 AM, Drakim wrote: or when Christians start using our democracy to express their opinions, THEN we can talk.

Bible Belt.

Falwell

They're important figures/concepts in our cultural history....

Think about it.

Jackson was a bigot, and certainly was a bigot in a time where bigotry was very, very common. That doesn't excuse him, but he was certainly one hell of a character.

I read the link that you had to the news article, and the story (17 pages, woah), seemed to be so fictional that it, well, shouldn't be taken seriously by any rational (or somewhat sane) person.

At 6/13/07 08:59 PM, stafffighter wrote: Saying the nra is non partison is like saying pro life nuts aren't church affiliated.

At least the NRA has made a good decision this time.

This, if there's any veracity to the claims and what I've read on this and other sources, seems ok.

Concessions to the NRA aside (some veterans issue, IIRC), I'm happy to see the NRA being logical.

At 6/14/07 01:00 PM, Twiligh wrote: If you look at Texas you will find this works

If your "everyone" owning a gun as "control" "works" in Texas, then why were there over 1,300 murders in Texas in 2004 (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/crimereports/04 /cit04ch2.pdf)?

For that matter, why is there a violent crime every 4 minutes there? (Same source)

At 6/14/07 03:25 PM, Proteas wrote:

Look at the Vietnam War. There were probably less than a couple thousand guerilla fighters in Vietnam

And a North Vietnamese Army, too. And much of the Vietcong wasn't necessarily motivated by communist leanings, they just didn't like DIem. That, and we didn't "pull out all the stops." Also, we have to realize that Vietnam is geographically different (less urban areas, etc.) than the US of A.

and they managed to hold the U.S. Army at bay for more than a decade.

Need a more recent example? Look to Iraq, then.

A few questions, then.

1. Would civillians have access to a global arms market (i.e. ex-Soviet, former Soviet states, Iran?)
2. Would there be nations willing to support an insurgency?
3. Would the military pull out all the stops?

It can be done.

I doubt it.

At 6/12/07 10:03 PM, Gunter45 wrote: Guys, Nazi's, amirite?

That's general for you, right there.

Funny thread, have to say.

Der-Lowe, I love that google translation: "The persecution began in 13 and 38 and finished to ten blocks. Three men, defendant to rob in two bakeries, faced the Police. In 3 and 39 they hit the car of a judicial civil employee. And a ferocious shooting began. Two were baleados and one is fugitive. An agent underwent fractures."

Lol. The spanish (considering *counts on fingers* the 6 years of spanish I've studied) would make more sense, even if the reader knew NO spanish.

I keep hearing "death causes people to think before they act criminally."

Yet when I look at the cost, chances of innocence and, yes, detterence rates, I know that the facts back up my anti-execution P.O.V.

"In 1990, the murder rates in these two groups were 4% apart. By 2000, the murder rate in the death penalty states was 35% higher than the rate in states without the death penalty. In 2001, the gap between non-death penalty states and states with the death penalty again grew, reaching 37%. For 2002, the number stands at 36%." (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?
scid=12&did=168)

At this link there's a litany of studies that review death penalty costs, and here, innocence is discussed.

At 6/11/07 07:12 PM, Malachy wrote: travel out of your suburb and you'll realize the northeast is just as bad(hick is a NE term anyway...)

You're probably right.

Never met a hick, though, even in Vermont.

At 6/11/07 05:21 PM, Altarus wrote:

except there is no dilemma here, as we can do both

Why waste money on executions though? Not in the first place, but at all?

There's plenty of evidence suggesting that they are much more expensive than life without parole.

Because every life has some intrinsic value, regardless of the person's actions.
But that's moralizing.

When you execute someone who performs some function in society, you mess around with the economic framework of families and such.

I want to address penetration capabilities alone, at this point, if that's ok.

According to a graph from the Federation of American Scientists (they're legitimate), the penetration of the M855 ball 5.56 round is 3mm of Rolled Homogenous Armor. The 7.62mm M80 ball is 4mm of RHA (same site, different graphic). The 7.62x51 is "our" 7.62, the AK-47 one is 7.62x39 IIRC.

Here's a better standard. It's called CRISAT, and "our" 7.62 and the 5.56 both make it. Presumably the AK-47 does too. IDK.

So, when we consider penetration, they all do pretty well. Even things like the 4.7mm beat CRISAT. From this standpoint, we should probably look at range, accuracy and the like.

Range is one other aspect that should be addressed with numbers, namely what percentage of engagements occur in the >500 meter, >200, >100 etc.

At 6/10/07 10:59 PM, Altarus wrote: According to these studies, the death penalty actually saves lives! Imagine that. I would love to see liberals try and dismiss these findings.

Uh, 'scuse me, but isn't it cheaper to prevent crime by working to combat poverty and low-quality education by providing programs like Head Start, vocational training and improved welfare...? With that, you prevent crime. Preventing crime is cheaper than punishing it, for, after all, death penalty cases alone are quite expensive.

If a Democrat had been president in 2000 (like there should have been)...well, you know....

But if one of these new Dems comes in, I'm not so sure. People such as Al Gore and Wes Clark appeal to me. Hillary, Barack Hussein "Osama" Obama, and such don't. Mike Gravel is cool, but unelectable. See, I just have this hatred of "rock star" candidates.

We need Gore.

At 6/10/07 10:56 PM, SevenSeize wrote: but being from an entire state full of of inbred drunk rednecks

*smirks*

Oh, boy, do I love the Northeast.

No hicks, just 90 pound housewives who have advanced degrees and don't work. Lazy...

At 6/10/07 09:15 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Vietnam and Somalia...the US didn't lose a single engagement the entire war [Vietnam].

True, and we didn't do too badly in the Battle of Mogadishu, considering the odds.

The initial problems with the M16 were due to [McNamara], not the rifle.

Fixed for great justice.

Yeah, but we DO engage at 500yds

Statistically speaking, how much do we engage at the 500 yard range? Most of the time, or so I've read, soldiers in Iraq are engaging at less than 300. If we adopted more small unit marksmen with the, say, the Mk12 SPR, or, even better, a scoped M14.

Also, it's not just accuracy, the 5.56x45 can penetrate body armor out to its maximum effective range, making it more effective against an advanced foe.

Operative phrase: advanced foe. How many terrorists are going to be wearing body armor? Even then, I have little doubt that a steel core AK round wouldn't penetrate. Mind you, I'm all for a better penetrative power round, but we're talking bullet on flesh, here, not bullet on Kevlar and ceramic. And even in a worst case, the standard that we should worry about is CRISAT, and the 4.7mm HK7 can beat that.

Yeah it is. It's more accurate, more ergonomically sound, lighter, more modifiable, and when maintained properly it is reliable.

The AK is great, and the M-16 is excellent too, but something with more penetration, better moddability and weight would be something like the Barret 6.8 SPC, or the Tavor or the M8 (both the Tavor and M8 wouldn't be for penetration, just for the others).

You don't wear a cup?

I wear a cup when I fence, let alone when I'm shooting balls of paint at other people.

If I had $$$ and played paintball regularly, I would spring for a suit of this and a helmet for wearing with the mask.

At 6/10/07 08:35 PM, Memorize wrote: 1. Senate
2. President

The president's nominations have to be approved by the senate in both cases, since the president nominates both the supreme court justices when a sitting judge dies, resigns or is otherwise removed, and cabinet members.

Metal Storm is cool, yeah. They have an AR already (a prototype, though): http://www.metalstorm.com/index.php?src=photo &srctype=lister&album=Advanced%20Individual%2 0Combat%20Weapon%20%28AICW%29&submenu=Graphic s&albumpos=0,1000000,3&category=Photos

Quite cool.

Then we ought to go back to "real" war, right? Napoleonic Wars style land battles.

It's not what the evolution of warfare has led to. I mean, imagine what the terrorists would do if we started fighting like that.

We have to best the enemy at his own game – but we have more rules to follow as is. We have to fight counterinsurgencies, not other ntions.

At 6/10/07 03:12 PM, TheMason wrote:

The M-16 is a fine gun, but I don't want to take it into combat...but unfortunately that is the weapon the DoD issues...

Speaking of which, the Coast Guard is getting rid of the M9 for the .40 caliber Sig P226. More stopping power? I'm still not clear on why besides breakage issues.