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At 10/18/06 08:32 PM, ImmoralLibertarian wrote: So when their children, the Generations X, Y, and Z wanted to rebel, the only feelings they had left to call their own was apathy.

That's an interesting theory I had not considered. It seems pretty difficult to prove though :/

The way I see it: Apathy is so prevalent because people are too concerned about their own lives and no one else's. That would seem selfish to some and perfectly fine to others, it depends on the person really.

At 10/18/06 08:39 PM, FightingForFreedom wrote: "Obviously, to defeat our enemies we need intelligence, but intelligence that is reliable. We should not torture or treat inhumanely terrorists we have captured. The abuse of prisoners harms, not helps, our war effort. In my experience, abuse of prisoners often produces bad intelligence because under torture a person will say anything he thinks his captors want to hear—whether it is true or false—if he believes it will relieve his suffering. "

Well said John McCain. So in effect, this bill won't accomplish much but to leave one of our freedoms in suspsense: the freedom to a trial and evidence than you in fact did something. Even if you can hold terrorrists, interrogate them, beat them and so on... it does not guarantee you will get accurate or even truthful information from them. So again, how did the military commissions bill of 2006 get passed by congress? Get on the phone and on your emails and contact your congress people!

At 10/18/06 08:36 PM, TheMason wrote: Again another emotionally based argument that is not rooted in reality and adds nothing to the discussion!

The U.S. seeks to take away weapons from those who are not likely to use them wisely is what he's saying. However, it doesn't really add much to the discussion.

At 10/18/06 08:35 PM, Heavenskid wrote: Sorry for being a troll I guess?

Sorry for being as blind as a bat. No harm no faul, my bad.

At 10/18/06 07:58 PM, FAB0L0US wrote: I think its Empanandos fault.

Yup the article says: "But one of the student leaders, 'Empanado', said on Wednesday the panel was "good for nothing".

At 10/18/06 08:15 PM, Heavenskid wrote: What the hell man? I was kidding, You don't have to tell me to go die over that.
I can't belive how pointlessly stupid your post was, How was all four of the posts "inhumane" and "desensitized". I mean you could of just focused that on me but again I was just kidding!

You must be new to the internet. Let' see.... can you hear my tone of voice? NO! That's because there is no tone in text! >:/ Detecting sarcasm in text is nowere near as easy as it is in voice when there's a specific tone we use for sarcasm or jesting. So, ok fine I apologize for my remarks. You were just being a troll was all.

At 10/18/06 08:14 PM, ImmoralLibertarian wrote: Apathy is this generations form of rebellion.

So what you're saying is this generation is saying "I DON'T HAVE TO CONFORM, I'LL SHOW YOU! ... but I won't do anything to stop you..." some rebellion that is :( That kind of rebellion would have been a sight to see in history.

Imagine that kind of rebellion in the American Revolution. The U.S. didn't approve of the crown but they weren't willing to do anything to stop it, and that was their form of rebellion. Or the blacks did not approve of being condescended upon and segregated by caucasians in the early-to-mid 1900's and they weren't gonna take it anymore! But they didn't do anything about it and that was their form of rebellion... No, that isn't rebellion, it's lethargy. It's because something was done in histroy that things changed.

There's even a law of physics for it: an object in motion will remain in motion unless it is affected by another object. An object not in motion will remain not in motion unless it affected by something. if we don't do something to affect things which are in motion... how can we expect them to cease or take a different course for that matter?

Is the U.S. full of apathy? What happened to the people who took a stand for human rights in the 60's and 70's? How come this generation doesn't seem anywere near as concerned as the previous? Have we lost our way? If we have, then how?

Is it a product of social conditioning, cultural values, media messages, political environment, societal pressures or certain combinations of all these?

How did the Military Commissions bill get passed by congress? How did we end up going to war with a country which had no means or plans of attacking us? How come for a while, people forgot about Osama Bin Laden? Why has the the Taliban returned to Afghanistan per the military's permission? Why is Bush still in office, despite being a worse president than Clinton? How come he was not impeached? How is it the gap between the rich and poor has become larger? How do we remain divided on issues such as Stem Cell research, abortion and gay rights after years of debate and have not been able to strike a compromise? Why are there so many questions and so little answers? And most of all, why does nobody seem to care?

The answers for the apathy are simple ones yet many. Later on in the topic I will discuss the reasons for apathy but right now I want to know why YOU think people are not phoning their representatives/senators, governors and other government officials and how they have become so desensitized. Discuss, please.

At 10/18/06 04:34 PM, SirXVII wrote: Anyway, this situation is more and more concuring and its the apathetic people who say, "Eh whatever they have to do to protect me" or "Eh, there's nothing we can do to stop it."

Thank you!

That's the majority of Americans too.

Yes!

I could go on a long tanget on how our society itself has made us lazier, selfish, and spoiled, but that is a whole nother topic.

You're right, it is.

The fact is that, in the end, we ultimatly will be the ones to blame for our problems.

We will, and no amount of "coercive action" is going to solve shit unless we learn to take action. Apparently the populous has forgotten they are responsible for shaping government and electing their leaders. That is not the responsibility of the government but of the educated and informed citizenry.

At 10/18/06 06:55 PM, Dante-Son-Of-Sparda wrote: BBC is full of shit I perfer Fox News or CNN.

Oh yes FOX is so much better at giving you all the facts as is CNN. Anyway let's not turn this into a debate on networks dude, please. Keep your comments about the BBC to yourself or in a thread which talks about networks and politics in news.

At 10/18/06 07:27 PM, fli wrote: See, I told you--

Oh my God. Take a picture of you taking a picture of you taking a picture of you taking a picture of you taking a picture... and you will create an infinite loop in the monitor :P

At 10/18/06 07:32 PM, fli wrote: New pics of Dorian and my other birds...

Lol nice, you've got plenty of interesting stuff going on in there, users complimenting you and your animal nursing skills, other users talking about their interests in birds, aztec birds, nesting birds, boning birds, bird bird bird, the bird is the word.

I was down in San Pedro the other day and I decided to hike down the side of the mountain on the very edge of the coast down to the reef at the bottom in the Pacific Ocean. I found a seagull resting on one of the large stone platforms in the water and I jumped over to the platform to get a closer look. The seagull's wing was mangled, bleeding badly as if it had been bitten by something or been cut by something. The seagull was resting and didn't want to move either unless a person within 2 feet of it, then it hopped away with it's twisted right wing dangling.

It got dark so I had to hike back up the mountain but I still feel sorry for that seagull :(

At 10/18/06 07:23 PM, Proteas wrote: Oh, and btw? I hate my accounting class, and I hate accountants. My book keeps referencing all these electronic accounting programs, yet you're not going to use them at any point during the course.... so how exactly is this considered a "life skill" again?

YES OH MY GOD YES! I'm glad to see I'm not alone :'( fucking professors keep saying "in the modern world you use computer programs to solve all this for you but in the exam... you're still going to be tested on all the mechanical formulas and have to work them out repetitively in the homework anyway!

Gunter that parakeet-in-the-fying-pan story made me sad :( how could he cook himself so quickly? You'd imagine he'd just jump right out... well with hot oil I guess it's kind of inevitable... poor keet :(

Anywho, this is my ideal pet Snooble: The West-African hedgehog! With highlights! :D

At 10/18/06 07:19 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 10/18/06 06:44 PM, fli wrote: I would love to pet one.
To own one? No... if they're not an animal domesticated by humanity for millenia such as doves, then I'm not too interested in them.

Aww why let other previous generations do all the raising for you when you can do it yourself? :D 1,300 posts yaay!

My mother's ex husband raised skunks for pets once. Supposedly they make very nice pets, if domesticated and had their scent glands removed....

Skunks are pretty exotic, just as chinchillas, half-wild and half-tame cat hybrids and Peacocks are.

Here's another exotic, you all know this one I'm sure.

I can't believe how inhumane, desensitized, cold, apathetic and just plain stupid the last four posts have been. If anything, you're some people the world could do without.

At 10/18/06 04:01 PM, Grammer wrote: I am glad this bill passed. Enemy combatants don't have constitutional rights. As long as they are given trial when the war is over, I see no problem with this bill.

Yes perhaps if the war were a quickie but mind you there are wars which last for decades and we're no exception. What if you spent 15-years in guantanamo bay on false accusations you were a possible enemy combatant? What if you had family? The only thing you can't get back in life is time, there is no monetary compensation for that, it goes beyond just money.

This bill does not endorse torture, don't give me that bollocks.

Even without the bill some prisoners had already been subjected to torture. What makes you think conditions are going to improve if it becomes legal to obtain information from them through other means?

At 10/17/06 06:04 PM, jlwelch wrote: Very well.

http://mb-soft.com/b..eve/txw/bibleaut.htm

Oh my lord a different link for once!

What about people who don't believe in gravity? What about people who don't believe in oxygen? Whether they believe or not does not shake the Truth!

I see what you mean, but if you don't believe in gravity all you need to do is let something fall and it is proven. One can say if you don't believe in God all you need to do is look at life, and I agree with you on a deeper spiritual level but scientifically looking at life doesn't prove much about God unless you go into unexplained things such as the start of the universe.

That is still a matter of debate as I still have a strong feeling (based on personal observation) that it may be nurture, not nature.

As with many other cases not involving homsexuality, it can be a little bit of both with variations between genetics and culture.

Actually it is wrong that it has not been made this way originally. It needs correction and this is it.

Sounds like delusions of grandeur and ethnic cleansing to me, kind of like what Hitler used to say...

Who would be hurt if I suddenly started worshiping Moloch or some false god? Who would be hurt if I suddenly became a homosexual? Who would be hurt if I began coveting my neighbor's wife? I WOULD! It may not affect us, but it is selfish not to tend to the needs of those who need spiritual help. God clearly states it is an abomination and to simply allow them to continue on their path to Hell without at least warning them or trying to stop them would not be very compassionate would it?

Live and let live, this philosophy is even conveyed in Christian teachings because you are not supposed to force people to convert to the gospel. Your only duty is to inform them, whether they choose to accept it or not is a matter of free will. Such is what many Christians fail to see >:/

I was not going to say God. However, telling me not to quote Scripture in a moral debate is like telling an evolutionist to quit citing scientific data...it makes no sense!

No, quoting religion in a debate which entails science is pretty absurd because in order to back your arguments you need EMPIRICAL DATA which has been tried and tested time and time again and always holds true, such is scientific law.

http://www.google.co..=define%3A+empirical

The bible is very dodgy in the sense that it lacks empirical data and to provide us with some at this point would be bogus because the bible has never had any. So I better not see any future editions of the bible coming out with exact dates, doecumentations and literal interpretations of events which ocurred in the past and we have no evidence of other than the book which has been edited by man.

At 10/18/06 11:32 AM, Gunter45 wrote: Either way, it is true, of course, the US is one of the least densely populated developed countries. I'm willing to bet that, of the industrialized nations, Russia is, far and away, the least densely populated, what, with Siberia and all.

that's because Russia is economically, politically and environmentally not pleasant to habitate in.

Stupid uranium and plutonium with its long half-life, radioactivity, explosiveness, fancy cars and... and... sexy parties >:\

At 10/18/06 11:00 AM, JMHX wrote: My spreadsheet covers columns A - T, with about 650 lines of data. It's a bit big to post here.

That's cool, could you use data analysis though? Any way to measure correlation, regression, confidence intervals? I saw you had a confidence interval of 95% leaving an alpha/error of 5%. It should be a normal bell-shaped distribution then no?

It is the apathetic voting block unfortunately. It's a bill right now, let's hope it doesn't become law.

At 10/18/06 09:15 AM, Freakapotimus wrote: I very badly want a chin... but they are a little expensive for me, I never have the moneys for one. I used to buy the dust bath, because my degus loved rolling around in that stuff, and people thought I had a chin and seemed to not like me anymore when I said no.

Yeah they're about $160 at Petco :( that's way more than a $17 Hamster.

Try this on for size though: A Skunk operated without stink glands: $800, yeouch!

At 10/18/06 05:09 AM, ironzealot wrote: In the meantime lets at least stand up for our culture, we're going to HIDE OUR OWN NATIONAL FLAG because it offends some muslim migrants! I have a better idea, if the muslims hate holland so much the can fucking go back to the desert!!!

There's a pretty thick line between tolerance and letting yourself get trampled over. That hiding of the dutch flag is just plain taking advantage of people's tolerance. But dude don't come off as all high and mighty as if every muslim in the world is disrespectful and intolerant, that kind of assumption/accusation is flawed.

At 10/17/06 11:33 PM, TheMason wrote: We have to do something because if we don't Iran is going to think it is perfectly fine to pursue nuclear weapons in defiance of international opinion.

One of the truest things I've ever heard you say Mr. Mason. I think this particular situation is more S. Korea, Japan and China's chance to not only lend a hand but put themselves in the spotlight.

At 10/17/06 09:15 PM, cellardoor6 wrote: Then Democrats want to give it to illegal immigrants who break our laws, commit lots of crime, and don't pay taxes?

Ah yes how could we overlook the fact that only immigrants break laws and commit lots of crime. Right so then white paranoid fucks like you never break laws, evade taxes or do anything illegal, mhm...

Fucking treasonous Democrats. Lets just sign our country over to the illegals and reward breaking the law with free money from hard-working, tax-payer dollars!

The tax-payer cry is retarded becase just about every American cheats on their taxes and tries to get as much a return as possible so don't act like you're actually willing to hand over your money so easily to the IRS to pay Bush his undeserving six-figure income.

Didn't you know? Democrats believe that the social security bankruptcy is a myth conjured by Bush for political support from interesting vote-wielders! But once Social Security collapses I'm sure the democrats will say they did all they could and that it was Republicans, or Bushes fault.

No, they don't believe it's a myth, but they don't think his idea of full privatization is good either, not every american knows how to invest. I'll be damned if you have equity in corporations right now. I do think Social Security needs to be fixed (and I'm democrat) but full privatization is not such a good alternative.

At 10/18/06 03:17 AM, JMHX wrote: If I'm right, I want some oral.

Tch I would probably demand some anal too. Anyway what's your raw data? Can you plot it on a spreadsheet and make a graphical representation for us? That would be most welcome :)

Freakin' Volvo haters, go knock a BMW or Benz I say! >:/

Stafffighter and SevenSeize; the best skyscape colour in my opinion is after the sun has set and the sky is turning dark blue yet the horizon still displays a light aqua hue, know what I'm talking about?

At 10/17/06 07:26 PM, FUNKbrs wrote: My neice has a hamster named Daisy. Yesterday I found out it liked cayenne peppers.

Weiurd, the hamster in my house belongs to my niece Daisy! :D it's the parallel universe theory oh noes!

Oh and Snooble... CHINCHILLA!

Oh I forgot (big surprise) we're in the new age man! I need a BluRay and HD-DVD rewinder do you have one of those? I also need to rewind my MP3's and USB keys :/ save me and my Volvo S60-R damnit! >.<

Hey hey easy there on the Volvos, don't be jealous of a great car >:/ They aren't even that expensive, you could have said Mercedes or BMW rather.

Anyway, GG nice gag gadget :D

At 10/17/06 06:46 PM, UnusQuoMeridianus wrote: no, though the right thing would've been to stear clear and avoid the spam (but who does that, honestly?) but with a lack of mod action what can you do?

Hm why is there so little modness lately?

Oh and Lil' Mistah Nibblepuff is a KICKASS name for a guinea pig. In spanish we call them Cuyos (plural with the s).