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At 3/4/14 09:10 PM, vampiretodd wrote: I'm posting the narrative now. It is also a rough draft for something I hope to make in the future. All other details about it will not be disclosed. Hope you like it.

Well, I read it and it is a marked improvement over previous posts. Still, it suffers from some of the previous problems and from some more conventional narratives problems. I posted a reply on your blog.

At 3/4/14 03:22 AM, NewShape wrote: No I'm asking what is the highest amount of words you'd expect the average internet reader to read at one time,

20. No, that is not a joke. The attention span of your average website troll is incredibly short.

think sites like watpadd if you want. Or more importantly what you as a writer would estimate it as. If you want an actual case study imagine having an 8000 word short story, how would you publish it if it HADto appear on a website that allows for multiples posts/installments.

I never visit any other writing websites other than NG's. Still, a serious writer and a serious reader would have no problem from 1k to 20k. The point I'm trying I make is that you'll be hard-pressed to find someone like this. If you have, say, an 8k story, then publish it however you like (many forums have character limits, so obviously, multi posts are needed).

I'm interested in a range of opinions, not specific advice since I have no specific story currently; this question is programming based.

Well, context is always appreciated. Programming is outside the scope of my knowledge. I'm not sure how this is relevant but the fact remains. I wasn't really giving advice, more just stating facts (rather foggily, I admit) and convention on NG. What I said about writers/readers could be constituted as opinion but I don't think this matters to you.

At 3/3/14 10:29 PM, vampiretodd wrote:

P.S. the news post I wanted you to look at was titled "come to me, friend." It's on my page if you'd like to check it out.

Looked at it. Has the same problems as before. I think you should try some exercises to get the mental juices flowing and maybe learn a thing or two about literature.

Then, I'd like to see a narrative. That's right: a story. Fiction, non-fiction--whatever. As long as it follows the criteria listed in my original post.

At 3/4/14 01:46 AM, DeftAndEvil wrote:

At 3/4/14 01:31 AM, NewShape wrote:

At 3/3/14 04:48 PM, DeftAndEvil wrote:

By forum I mean the Writing Forum (what we're on now). And, as long as you can find readers, you can post as much as you like (I think you're limited to 5 maxed posts per hour; I haven't reached these limits in a long time, so I don't remember). However, finding readers is tough enough. I wouldn't post more than a couple thousand words until you've earned yourself enough dedicated writers to keep their attention past 3k.

Hm. Maybe I misunderstood your question. I think you are talking about chapters. Any length is appropriate for a chapter, with a huge range from 1k to 10k being typical. An installment, or maybe a serialization, should be self-contained enough to be satisfying, but exciting enough to warrant adherence. And no, that doesn't mean keep ending on cliff-hangers.

It's all going to depend on your writing ability. So, you might as well post a small sample of your work.

At 3/4/14 01:31 AM, NewShape wrote:

At 3/3/14 04:48 PM, DeftAndEvil wrote:

So your answer is 3k?
By forum I assume you include all writing portals.

By forum I mean the Writing Forum (what we're on now). And, as long as you can find readers, you can post as much as you like (I think you're limited to 5 maxed posts per hour; I haven't reached these limits in a long time, so I don't remember). However, finding readers is tough enough. I wouldn't post more than a couple thousand words until you've earned yourself enough dedicated writers to keep their attention past 3k.

At 3/3/14 06:33 PM, vampiretodd wrote: I responded to your reply then afterwards deleted the news post. Sorry i didn't really see much potential in that piece. Just a little bit of free hand writing I wanted to do to ease my mind. Your criticism was very helpful! But it wasn't on the news post I wanted you to critique on. Yeah as you said it was tacky. I don't like being tacky or sought out to be a pleader. Because pleading is not my thing. But seriously though, thank you!

Yeah, well, I thought that post was rather rough and insubstantial. I have gotten a feel for your style and ability though, from that piece and some others that I've read. I actually ran out of space when writing in the reply box. Seeing as it's only you and me pretty much, I would be happy to look at something you've written that is more ... substantial.

At 3/3/14 04:10 PM, NewShape wrote:

I wasn't asking about its production but its publication on the internet. If you look at any writing portal nobody releases 20,000 words in one go, they release it in installments.

The reason is three-fold. One, these are usually works in progress. So, people release chapters as they complete them. Two, no one on the internet (anywhere) wants to read an 80k word novel on a forum. Anything past 3k is pushing it. Three, the forum only allows about 1.5k (I believe) per post.

At 3/3/14 02:02 PM, vampiretodd wrote:

At 3/3/14 01:01 PM, DeftAndEvil wrote:

At 3/3/14 10:37 AM, vampiretodd wrote: Deal! I'll await your reply.

Well, go ahead and post a link to whatever you feel needs the most attention at the moment.

http://vampiretodd.newgrounds.com is this what you meant?

Yeah, more or less. I posted a reply to your post. I wasn't sure what you were looking for, so I think that would be helpful next time (to anyone who cares).

See you later.

At 3/3/14 10:39 AM, Aeropostal33 wrote: have nothing to do with the Godless deeds of evil men...

I would appreciate it if you could refrain from vapid pseudo-philosophical remarks. Serious discussion about writing, please.

At 3/3/14 10:37 AM, vampiretodd wrote: Deal! I'll await your reply.

Well, go ahead and post a link to whatever you feel needs the most attention at the moment.

Hey guys,

I go by Deft, and I like to write and critique. I'd like to say I'm pretty damn good at both. I fell out of the grind of the Writing Forum for about 4 months. Truth is, I crumbled under deep and bitter dejection caused by my own failures as a person, like most of do from time to time. And, that's really all you need to know about me.

I bought a new pen and a new notebook, and I am finally writing again. And, reading and reviewing go hand in hand with writing, so I came back to a place where I've sunk so much of my efforts,and improved my abilities as writer.

The Writing Forum looks dead, but most regulars will tell you it's been like that forever. I'm just trying to get myself and others exciting about literary art.

If anyone needs any reviews or criticisms for anything, or any writing help in general, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

Well, a few things:
1. Show me (or tell me in a few sentences) that you are serious about writing. I have plenty of wisdom to offer to beginners, and a second set of eyes to offer to writers of a higher caliber.
2. No poems (I'll still critique some occasionally, at my own discretion).
3. No fan-fiction. Works should be original.
4. All writing must be linked to Newgrounds. Keep it local!
4. b. Create a newspost on your page, or a new topic, and link it here. Or, send a PM.

I'm still easing myself back into the Writing Forum, so expect a 24-48 hour turnaround time. Critiques will be sent out in the order they were received. In the following weeks, I can probably knock a dozen stories in a day. :D

Sincerely,

Deft

At 11/9/13 08:38 PM, J-Rex wrote:

At 11/9/13 04:19 PM, RIGg0rMORtis wrote: Critiques are going out, slowly but surely. My apologies if you haven't heard back from me yet-- I'll get to you in the next few days.

Are you guys sending the critiques out to everyone who participated?

As of now, I'm only sending it to those who have asked.

Hey guys. I have about 8 people in a queue for reviews. The only person I've helped so far is spyderz. It's taking like like an hour for each one (I've helped jaston a couple days ago; he was part of the MWC). I'll help everyone in the order in which they asked. I'll get through maybe four by tonight.

I posted my ratings on my page for every story submitted, as well as my unofficial top 10. I have complete reviews (about 2 paragraphs each, actually). However a lot of the criticisms were the same for each story, and I was under a time conte ain't so I stopped at about 30 ( Robbie's "Mr.").

If you'd really want a good in depth review I'd be happy to oblige. Jast0n contacted me to give him some advice and I gave him 7 decent sized paragraphs of review and advice. If anyone wants to know why their story got the score it did, or if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask either rigormortis or myself, or post it here.

At 10/30/13 10:40 PM, DeftAndEvil wrote:

At 10/30/13 10:38 PM, DeftAndEvil wrote:

Lol, I meant 1 short story every day. Also, some people consider 1000 words to be a short short story. But, NaShoShoStoMo sounds ridiculous.

...NaShoShoStoWriMo >.>

Eh. At least I'm two stories removed from finishing reviewing the Halloween stories. At least I'm on point about that.

At 10/30/13 10:38 PM, DeftAndEvil wrote:
I'm think of starting NaShoStoMo (or, National Short Story Writing Month), where you write one 1000-word short story.

Lol, I meant 1 short story every day. Also, some people consider 1000 words to be a short short story. But, NaShoShoStoMo sounds ridiculous.

I tried to do it once, but then I concluded that I have no intent on ever writing a novel. I stopped about 20 pages in, and I realized that I had too much. I'd rather write 25 2000-word short stories than one 50000-word story.

As Borges says in one of my favorite books ("Ficciones" which I read all the way through about twice a year):

"The composition of vast books is a laborious and impoverishing extravagance. To go on for 500 pages developing an idea whose perfect oral exposition is possible in a few minutes! A better course of procedure is to pretend that these books already exist, and then to offer a resume, a commentary."

I'm think of starting NaShoStoMo (or, National Short Story Writing Month), where you write one 1000-word short story. When you're done, you can pick your favorite and turn it into a 4500-word story (which in my opinion is the perfect length for any story: about 15-20 pages).

At 10/27/13 08:46 PM, J-Rex wrote:

At 10/27/13 05:33 AM, OptimisticOctopus wrote: So what are you guys planning to do/have already done this Halloween?

Clippers-Warriors games :) Go Clips!

I'm not a judge or organizer but since the deadline is the 31st, I assume the results will be posted probably a few days (at least 3) after the deadline since a good bit of stories and some very long ones have been submitted.

I've actually already reviewed every story except the last 3 (which were submitted today). I expect about 5-7 more stories to trickle in until Oct. 31 midnight, but I'll review them as they come in (should finish Kris's by tonight).

Expect them within 1-2 days (at least that seems to be what riggormortis has implied).

At 10/23/13 05:08 PM, J-Rex wrote:
Cool! Extra money to the winner! Also who do you guys think as the best story so far?

I'll make a news post and put all the reviews on my page when I'm finished. I'm only 8 entries in (started yesterday), but I must say that I really enjoyed Chronamut's poem, despite the superficial flaws.

At 10/23/13 01:42 PM, greatwh1teshark wrote:

:: An Ode a Azure:
I was thinking an ode would be suitable for the occasion. The odes any one cares about are those of Keats (because they are the best ones). His most famous odes have an ABABCDECDE structure where the ABAB gives a traditional formal feeling, and the CDECDE gives a freer romantic feeling (look up “ode” on Wikipedia, which is a decent source for poetic info).
I see that the poem is pretty much in iambic tetrameter. That's cool, except some words don't follow the scheme, which will make it sound clumsy if you fall into rhythm when you read it aloud (daDUM daDUM daDUM daDUH, daDUM daDUM daDUM daDUH). For example “crashing” is pronounced “CRASHing,” not “crashING.” So, when I read this aloud, it went like this: “CRASHing upon our sandy SHORES.” You can see how the rhythm is already messed up because the first word is not iambic, but the rest of the lines are.
For whatever reason, prosody gets a bad rap in poetry (maybe because it's hard as shit?). But, meter and rhythm are important, so I do suggest sticking to iambic tetrameter the entire time (each line has 8 syllables), although I also suggest the ABABCDECDE rhyme scheme since some people think a strict AABB rhyme scheme gives a poem a “Dr. Seuss” vibe. I bet most people who do a free verse poem don't know anything about poetry, and I also bet the “Keatsian” structure will impress the English teachers.
That's stuff to think about. Without further ado:

“Crashing upon our sandy shores,
your every wave so void of flaws.

In poetry, every last word and every last syllable matters (I'd say the same is true for prose, but whatever). The word “crashing” is a strong word, and I like it. Also, assonance and consonance (craSHing ... upoN ... SaNdy ... SHoreS) give it a good momentum. But like I said, it doesn't fit into the meter. So, you're gonna have to move the word. “Upon our sandy shores you crash” sounds pretty sweet, and also, the line ends with a verb, giving the rhythm a good “punch” at the end.
In the second line, the adverb “so” is odd here. “So void” just doesn't seem like a phrase anyone would say. I think “devoid” works just the same but it makes sense. (Side note, if you are not turning this poem in, try writing “every” as “ev'ry” so you remember to say it as 2 syllables and not as “evuhRY.” This will seem pedantic to some, but it will help you when you read it.) Also, I think if you end each of the first two couplets with a strong word, in conjunction with the meter, it will give the beginning of the poem a good rolling and crashing rhythm. This is just me, though.

Your endless beauty knows no bounds,

“Endless beauty” is a cliche. Also, the phrase “knows no bounds” is also a bit derivative in its pairing with the previous cliche. So, I’d rewrite this entire line.

your silent realms knows not of sounds.

Realms is plural, so it should be “know.” I’m not sure what the abysmal zones of the oceans have to do with this poem. This is about the beauty of the ocean. Also, meaning always takes precedence over rhyme (I get it, “sounds” rhymes). I’d rework this couplet.

Your deep blue runs forever true,

Again, you fall out of meter here, whereas in the previous lines you stayed with it. (When I read this I emphasized “YOUR,” for some reason.) Anyway, I think it’s the word “forever” that makes this line awkward. Also, “forever true” is kind of lame. So, I’d rework this line enough to fit the meter.

life is not the same without you.

Um, try not to be maudlin. It’s getting kind of cheesy. Love the personification though. Nature personified is cool, but just keep it cool and epic, not overly Romantic.

You are our present and our past,

Again, this is kind of overly sentimental and lame. Have you ever heard The Kinks’ “Lazy Old Sun?” I think that’s the tone you want to shoot for (for=preposition; just acknowledging that). It’s reverent, yet cool.

when we are gone you shall still last.
For all of time you are our friend,
surviving us until the end.”

You just contradicted the previous sentiment of human fatalism with an eternal friendship (I guess what I’m saying is you are implying the ocean and us will be together forever, but you said before that the ocean will outlive us.) Also, never rhyme “friend” with “end.” Just do me that favor.
So--not bad. It’s a pretty okay poem about the ocean, the source of life for the planet. I think you need to rethink whether you want the poem to be reverent, Romantic, and epic; or, laidback and smooth. Since you are reciting this for your school (I think), I would guess you’d choose the latter. But, I think if you simply rework each line and keep a “nonchalant” or “informal” tone, and throw in some nice words like “crashing,” “rolling,” and “tidal” (you know, marine imagery), you should get a nice balance of the two and have a presentable poem.

I'm throwing my hat in as a judge. Also, since there seem to be many entries, and some pretty good ones too, I'll add $10 to the prize pool for the first place winner (last time I gave the first place winner, BoobMarley $10 but there is a .59 surcharge so the winner will actually get $9.41 >.>; winenr must have Paypal account).

Also, everyone be sure to title your story, re-read your story at least once, and remember that if you need help or peer-edits, you can ask anyone here. I'm sure someone would be willing to exchange stories and peer-edit/revise.

Good luck.

At 9/9/13 08:07 AM, masqueradeofsorrow6 wrote: A calming wave of wind flows through the air.

Love kinaesthetic imagery. "Wave," wind," "flows," and "air" is too much...

Trees of pure green sparkling in dazzling sunlight.

Also "pure green trees" and "flows through the air" are trite phrases for something that wants to be grand or romantic.

Smells of ever blossoming roses intoxicate the senses.

Show, don't tell. This is a perfect chance for olfactory imagery (sense of smell imagery). Also, how does a smell intoxicate more than one sense? Again, roses are too readily available as romantic, so it starts to work against you at this point.

Here in the forest of life.

I love refrains. But, what is the forest of life? Seems to be an allusion to the Garden of Eden, but this is never developed or communicated to the reader.

Not a single human sound, as bird’s sing out.

The apostrophe seems purposefully placed, but since this poem is not following a strict rhythm or meter, I'd recommend just taking it out, since it is an eyesore.

Such a lovely tune that takes the soul like a lover when their crush kisses them with sweet snow like lips.

???????????????????? Oddly informal.

Here in the forest of life.

No pain, no worries, or even a tiny shred of care.

The wolves sleeping next to their child whose eye’s have yet to see the light.

Here in the forest of life.

Well, the poem takes a sort of mawkish turn for the worse. Anyway, if you could give it more structure (the format itself is also strange. I don't know why it is double-spaced). Pay more attention to prosody (which is a giant pain, but it will make your poem better. Trust me); also the first thing you should do after write a poem is read it aloud. Flow is a controversial topic among critics (like prosody), but this poem could use better flow. Finally, it just seems really flat and unmoving. It could use an injection of freshness or thunder. Something.

At 9/14/13 10:30 PM, ArkhamMA wrote:

At 9/12/13 11:06 PM, Crimsonskies455 wrote: Stuff

Some sensible stuff

I think I love you.

We should've done a Madness Day contest. Also, it's a series well-known and beloved on NG. Furthermore, it doesn't really take much to write a decent Madness story.

I want to partake in this contest only because I want to get back into writing. So, I'll take a shot at it.

At 9/7/13 05:41 PM, Idiot-Finder wrote: Baseball spoof

Sorry man. Not a fan of team sports. Especially not a fan of baseball. If anything, it could've been funny? Also, book titles are underlined and every word is capitalized (except articles and prepositions).

At 9/7/13 10:06 PM, Crimsonskies455 wrote:
Inside a small and dark room, a man inhaled deeply on a cigarette and looked with deep regret out the window.

Too cliched and uninteresting (needs better hook). Also you use the word "deep" twice, drawing attention to it for no reason, and it seems repetitive.

The once sprawling city of Chicago was lifeless and barren. Cars that were proud symbols of what humanity used to be were reduced to nothing, but rusty scrap metal and were only good for tetanus.

The comma is unneccesary, not only changing the meaning of the sentence, but creating an unneccesary break. It seems to already be a victim of the oversaturation of post-apocalyptic fiction, this doesn't seem to be going anywhere interesting. Same thing: the mild cynicism is uninteresting.

The large skyscrapers that stood tall and beautiful were scraped clean by scavengers, making them look like husks of their former selves.

The prep. phrase "of...selves" is not only unnecessary, but a husk is different from a remain, since healthy/living corn still has a husk.

Nature was taking over and trees sprouted up out of the roadways and sidewalks. Large vines made their way down many of the buildings and animals were a common sight. Looking to his left, the man's eyes fell upon a eyesore. A large gate made of scrap metal was at the left end of Chicago and a wall made of everything a person could think of jetted out from it and back into the city. The wall separated their District from the three others that littered the large city. The man's District was number three.

This paragraph contains too much information; actually, it is just too jumbled up and kind of repetitive.

The Red Light District.

Um....

He gave a sigh and

"Sighed." If you could go over the entire story and refine it, you can straighten out sentences to make them "flow" better.

glanced at his environment. It was nothing special. The building he was in used to be a hotel where tourists would stay since it was close to the inner parts of Chicago. It was overtaken by survivors of the plague and the hotel owner was killed in the fights for control over space. In the corner of the room, a bed with the covers folded neatly sat empty. Towards the worn brown door, a desk with a chair waited patiently. A journal laid peacefully on the desk, its covers open for the world to see and a pen sat between the open pages. The ink on the pages of the journal were fresh. On the opposite end of the desk were cabinets and a counter top with a sink. The counter top once had a microwave on top, but it was taken by the District leaders to be changed into scrap metal to build the wall.

Some more of the same.

The male walked over to the window, opened it, and threw the cigarette out.

After disposing of his cigarette, the man walked over to the bottle of Crown Royal that laid on the desk and pulled out a shot glass from a cabinet nearby. The shot glass saw a lot of use and the glass showed its age. He poured himself a glass and tilted it back into his mouth. He winced as the alcohol gave him a nasty kick as he swallowed it. He gave a sarcastic "ahh" and walked over to his AK 47 that leaned against the desk.

...again.

It was his most prize possession. A robber exchanged it for his life when the man found him in his room. It was broken, but he bought the supplies he needed to fix it at the markets by trading some deer meat. Picking up the AK, he pulled out a rag from his pocket and started to polish the metal. He pulled the magazine out to see it was still fully loaded and gave a chuckle. He was always out of bullets. He would always go out to guard the wall and forget to restock.

Well, the story is finally improving, but it still seems to be a typical post apocalyptic/zombie story.

Before he could take the weapon apart to polish the inside, he heard a knock on the door. He jumped and walked over to the peephole to see who it was. Outside, a women that was his age stood outside. She had the same hair color as him. It was black and put in a pony tail. Her eyes were blue and her pose was stern. She started to knock louder.

Hm. Something I noticed is that the sentences lack variety. "He did this. She did that." Know what I mean? I'd get into the finer points of grammatical style, but the truth is I need to touch up on it myself.

"Open up, Robert! She shouted loudly.

"Shut up. Your going to wake up the whole hall!"

"I won't until you open the door!"

Opening the door, Robert was immediately hugged which surprised him.\

Too much telling. Everything seems so simple and ... bald.

"I thought you were dead! I thought the infected dragged you away." The women said as tears started to fill up in her eyes.

Robert huffed and said, "You know I always skip that stupid council the District leaders always have. All that they do is take attendance. Its basically grade school all over again." Robert said gruffly before pouring himself another shot.

"Ya, to figure out if your dead or not! You always skip and it worries me. I always worry about you and its weekly so every week you give me a god damn mini heart attack!" The women said as she grabbed the shot glass, opened the window and threw the liquid out.

Same....

Robert gave her a glare before stating,

"You're my sister. If I die, you would know it."

"I don't think it works like that." She replied and sat down on the seat.

"Lisa, I know you worry about me, but I can take care of myself."

"I know. It's just..."

A gunshot rang out in the hallway making the pair freeze in their tracks. They sat in silence for what sounded like hours, neither of them making a sound. A man ran up to their door and started to shout frantically,

You can't freeze in your tracks if you weren't moving in the first place.

"Infected in the hotel! The wall has been breached! Be prepared too-"

The man's voice was cut off by moans. Raspy, horrible, and lifeless moans.

I get it that they are zombies, but "lifeless moans" doesn't fit in with "Raspy" and "horrible."

Well, man. Can't really say too much other than it is too derivative of post-apocalyptic/zombie narratives. Also, the composition itself seems too boring and lifeless (not being cheeky, I was thinking this the entire time). There's no hook or pathos, or whatever. Also, there are a bunch of little mistakes in grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. Sorry that I can't help you better but that's the truth.

At 5/24/13 01:38 PM, DeftAndEvil wrote:

Anyway, let me make first place sweeter by giving $10 to BoobMarley. (I've contacted you via PM. Just need a confirmed Paypal e-mail).

Done and done. As long as there are at least 10 "non-regular entries" you can expect $10 for the next MWC.

Well, I'm glad the results are out, but sorry that I didn't get to judge. I guess there's next time, and the next one, too.

Anyway, let me make first place sweeter by giving $10 to BoobMarley. (I've contacted you via PM. Just need a confirmed Paypal e-mail).

Poetry is about language and prosody. The employment of language and an understanding of prosody are key for poetry, and distinguish it from prose.

Considering this, the use of language is dull (as in not sharp, not necessarily boring) and simple. There is little art, and the tone is too morose to the point where the entire poem can be dismissed. Everything can use more work--but then again, everything can use more work, so this advice is redundant, I suppose.

Good luck.

At 4/29/13 10:50 PM, ChloBro wrote: A guy falls in love with a girl who doesn't like him, and she repeatedly denies his advances.
To get revenge, he becomes a famous singer, dedicating each and every song to her.
Then, with all his riches, he spends the rest of his life paying people to kill her boyfriends.
Does that sound interesting?

This sounds very uninteresting. But then again, theme and development are what make stories interesting (as well as writing style, language, but you can forgo these if you want). You need more than just an idea.

I suppose you can have an interesting idea ... but you still need a good way to present it to your reader.