You know, I was thinking about it and I realized Guitar Hero and Rockband are pretty geared toward a younger audience. I mean, they don't have mascots, but they are gimmicky enough to draw a large young fan base.

Perhaps along side educational games, as I mentioned before, some companies should focus on making casual games more AAA quality like Guitar Hero.

Just a thought.

This guy does bring up a good point. Not roping in the future generation will inevitably lead to the downfall of any industry.

However, "kids" these days like to be a little more "mature" than even my generation did (that wasn't too long ago). So, as the 10s-13s or so buy the more "mature" or graphically touted games, it only leaves a small group for which the industry is responsible as far as getting their attention. Granted it would be good business strategy to have something in between Virtual Ball Pit and Blood Gore Bonanza.

I think he was right about companies needing to explore some new territory, but perhaps a new AAA console franchise is only one piece of the puzzle. If some developers got some more educational games on the market, they would be bought by schools (huge sales) and distributed to kids all over the country. Taking a step up from Reader Rabbit might be a good idea as well, perhaps also creating things like physics simulators for high school classes and interactive scenarios for history lessons. These types of educational games, depending on success rates, could be sold to all levels of the educational ladder.

Accepting the "industry" may crash, I still need to say this: gamers will not tolerate a complete halt. Not only did we recover from the first crash (which I'm sure would happen again), but this time we have plenty of opportunity for user generated content to keep us busy in the mean time. What I'm saying is, whether the companies themselves fail or not, gamers will always have something to play. Do you think Flash developers will stop making games just because Microsoft's game studio got treated? Probably not.

In conclusion, one good way to remedy the problem this guy mentions is getting some more educational games out there. Finally, don't worry about games disappearing completely. You won't need to take up reading any time soon, I assure you.

Note: I'm surprised he didn't mention all the sequels that have been or are coming out. This is just another example of "the industry" catering to its older fan base.

That's all; thanks for reading
-Will

Or you could get WoW...and go to college(what?) Practice a little self control and you'll be fine. However, be prepared to disappoint your guild or other such friends when you need to finish a paper.

I warn you, though...the road ahead is full of long nights and "oh shit, I forgot to do (insert assignment here)" moments.

You can also practice even more self control and just not buy the game.

Unfortunately, because of the Earth's rotational cycle, it's impossible to do this in a way that will please all parties.

We could divide into chapters based on common times, and then have special meets on occasions where we could all face off in big team battles.

The only other way I see this happening is if we pick a common day where most people have nothing to do (Saturday, for instance) and some times that are easy to work with (i.e. 3pm Eastern Standard, non holiday). This works out to noon on the West coast, U.S. and 8pm in London. This gives ample time, in my opinion, to have everyone come together.

I do think splitting into chapters would be a good idea anyway, if only to create smaller groups for less lag potential.

DAAA NAAH NAAH NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! You got new Zelda Game!

I've been waiting too long. Time to go play all my Zeldas again to prepare...

Zeeelda
Me play Zeeeelda
Zelda come and me grades go down...

Obviously, everyone had their own way of playing. In Halo, I use inverted and Bumper Jumper controls. Most of my friends play inverted, but use regular controls. I keep trying to get them to switch to Bumper Jumper, but people get stuck in their ways. Only four buttons are switched and they say it's "too much to learn."

Anyway, I play inverted because in Ocarina of Time, when you entered first person to look around, the controls were set inverted. I learned to play that way. When Halo came out, it was inverted by default, so I used it and got even more used to it. Some people's brains work differently, and neither control scheme is the "correct" one. Whatever feels better is clearly the one for you.

When I play, I don't feel like I'm the player, but that I'm controlling a camera. For this reason, it makes sense for me to pull on the stick to tilt upward and push to tilt downward. If you play "normal" or "broken" or whatever, you can understand the inverted mentality by thinking about this analogy:

Say you have a ball suspended in mid air. You push the ball forward. Which way does it roll? It rolls down relative to you. If you pull the ball, it rolls up relative to you. This is how inverted players think. It's like a trac ball. It is hard for us to comprehend the opposite way.

Speaking of trac balls, this is for all those PC players saying "inverted on PC just wouldn't feel right." Correct. Pulling on the mouse to make it go up would make no sense, but the trac ball inside your mouse is already inverted. The input is reversed. So, when you push on the mouse, you you pushing the ball...but the input is reversed, so it is as if you are pulling the ball. Take a look at the above mentioned analogy and you see that pulling means up.

So, not to pound on anyone's opinion...but I play inverted and I think it's the more logical way to play.

To each his own
Peace
-Will

3

Indeed, I will be at work on Wed. I can get on later that night, though... : 3

I won't be at home this weekend (makes me sound busy, huh?) but I'm willing to set something up for the weekend of the 16th/17th. I might even use you guys to test out some variants I've been working on and get your feedback : 3

Let me know if you're interested. If so, I'll get started on a game plan as to what maps and game types we should play (get a nice sampling going) and do some research on how to lessen lag a bit. If you want to suggest some game types, or have some variants you want to show off, let me know.

Also, Deku, let me know if you want to organize this instead.

Peace
-Halvgoeden

At 8/1/08 04:51 PM, CopperChaos wrote: You mean an event every two weeks?

Yeah, it would be cool to have a meet up every two weeks, even if we have different people coming in and out.

That's going to be hard.

The tournament is just a dream big kind of thing, but the custom maps wouldn't be too hard. I'm working on a game type right now. It's a variation of VIP where the VIP is radioactive, so standing near him lowers your shields and makes you slow. The point is to protect him from a distance and get him to the drop point.

Well, be sure to tell me if you're doing another one.

Will do. Also, I'm online a lot with a regular group of friends anyway.

-Halvgoeden

At 8/1/08 03:26 PM, CopperChaos wrote: Guys, are you planning to do another one?

I think it should be at least a bi-weekly event. We can keep this thread running to record game stats and share screen shots and stories.

Like I mentioned above, it would be nice to get some tournaments going at some point if we get big enough, and also get some user-made maps and game types on. I'm sure we're all creative people.

We should try harder to accommodate time zones, though. I know we had some late night Brits on this time (and an Aussie, whoa!), but we fat American bastards should make it easier on everyone else in the future...as easy as it can get without time travel. Perhaps hold the games on the weekend?

Anyway... : 3

-Halvgoeden

Hey Deku/Uni,

When are we going to do this again? I think next time we should try to resolve the lag any way possible (I'm going to look up some stuff online), have some custom maps and game types prepared (I liked Road Block), and get more people involved. Also, we may want to think about getting a tourney together at some point.

peace,
-CNS/Halv

Oh, and there were two Infection games before the 8 that Omega posted:

-Infection on Valhalla
-Infection on Sandtrap

This brings us to an even 10. Nice.

btw, does anyone know why in larger games you have to queue your mic before talking?

"Fapfapfap fapfapfap...fappin at the speed of liiiiiiiight"

This should happen again. If my game videos are still saved I'm going to make some screen shots.

-Halvgoeden

does anyone know why it was lagging so bad sometimes?

Going for the time stamp was a good idea, but here's another way that involves the actual government:

Print out a copy and mail it to yourself. Do not ever open it. This will give you a time government time/date stamp as well as your own legal name and address. Keep it somewhere safe until needed (some asshole steals your work).

...Could a mod please lock or delete this if it's still active...

I just checked snopes.com and apparently this has been around for awhile. Not a big deal. Sorry, I got over vigilant and tried to get the word out to everyone I could think of.

peace.

Hey, everyone. Thought I'd get the word out:

Don't open any emails titled "Hallmark Card" or anything similar. It may be a virus. Someone at my office said her husband's workplace got it pretty bad. So, watch out net goers!

What do you mean, "you people?"

I play Halo 3 pretty much exclusively now, although I will play the original with friends on occasion. However, I am waiting for the next Legend of Zelda title as we post...and waiting.

I enjoy tons of genres, not just sticking to shooters or platformers or whatever. My favorite 360 purchases so far have been Oblivion, Viva Pinata, and Halo 3.

So, basically I agree with you.

Two gay guys check into a hotel. They get to their room and really want to get it on, but one says,

"Let me take a shower first...don't start without me."

He finishes his shower and walks back into the room only to find semen everywhere. He says,

"Oh my god, I told you not to start without me."

The other one says,

"I farted."

I bought a core to begin with...I don't recommend it. You need to buy too much extra stuff if you want to play anything for real.

I would go for a Pro and upgrade your hard drive later if necessary. I have found that 20GB is not enough for everything I want, but I download full games from the marketplace and like to put custom music on my console. However, if all you are storing is game saves you should be fine. Keep in mind Microsoft is about to allow full game installs when deciding what amount of storage you want. Also, remember you can always transfer your 20GB HD to a 120 HD once. XBox Hard Drive Transfer Kit

In any case, have fun with whatever you choose!

At 7/18/08 06:01 PM, Yiffy wrote: Not to pop anyone's dream here, but if you can't get an university grade education don't bother with the game industry.

A college education is always good, I will definitely agree with you there. However, I wouldn't say "don't bother" with the entire industry. There are plenty of small, "indie" studios out there that would probably hire talented people regardless of their education.

Making games sounds fun but alot is involved.

Of course a lot is involved, but if it's your passion it means you will succeed. Just because something is hard work doesn't make it boring or not fun.

Not to mention the amount of jobs in the industry are really scarce.

If you're only counting large studios. There are a ton of small companies everywhere, and you don't have to stick to "video game" development; you can branch off slightly and do things like edutainment and simulations, which broadens your employment options if you keep your mind open. Also, with home development becoming more popular, pretty soon we could be seeing some amazing things from people who have no experience in the traditional industry.

I can tell you weren't trying to be condescending. My guess is you were just trying to weed out people who aren't serious (why so serious?) about game development-people who think it would be like Grandma's Boy every day. I also am not trying to bitch at you, but am simply trying to keep spirits high.

shiggity shwa, myea pebula.

Responsorial (ah, ah, ahh, ahhh, MEEEN):

Wurmy1029 posted the following spicy collection of phrases (with a side of rice pilaf):

:: Start off small and build up.
This is true for everything. There's no way you can start with trying to program "The Gratezorz RPG of all Tymez!." I have found a really great guide for programmers who want to begin making some games: A Path to Game Development (the contents are on the right side of the page - it's a little cluttered.)

Keep in mind this is simply a path. You can always blaze your own trail; just remember to keep your map handy.

:: Get the free trial of Flash and start messing with it. Learn how to script in AS (ActionScript), how things work and so on and so forth.
This is probably one of the best pieces of advice, especially for Newgrounders. You can submit any games you make and get immediate and honest feedback from a huge community that is usually ready to help you out.

:: I would recommend C++...
I like this suggestion, but I would recommend C# as well, even though C++ is still used widely. I would also recommend learning Java, as it is incredibly useful and you can make some cool games with it (RuneScape - sorry haters.)

:: Because if you can't handle AS there's no way you'll be able to handle C++.
I'd like to disagree just because some people might be able to grasp C++ better that ActionScript (although unlikely) however, I won't because I think learning ActionScript first gives you a good understanding of Boolean and Maths, which prepares you for C++ even though they are completely different languages.

:: But then again. What do I know, I'm just 16, rite?
Oh never mind, you have no idea what you're talking about, then... :3

To xXCostelloXx:

I'd try to forget about the downsides. These are the things you focus on when you are wearing out, but you can always recover and remember why you love your job...or so I've heard.

Editorial (means opinion column, fyi for the news newbs):

I'd like to elaborate more on what Wurmy1029 was saying by including some others who would like to follow paths other than programming:

For aspiring designers (level design, writing, blahdy blah):
-Learn how to use level editors! Get out there and make some mods with your favorite games. Try to create some awesome levels, paying attention to pacing and space, and keep them in a portfolio. Update your portfolio often, filtering out the super crappy stuff as you get better (remember to show some sense of progression, but still use your best work.)

-Write and read every single day. Get in the habit of jotting down ideas and fleshing them out. Who cares if you never finished that novel you started in sophomore year? Start 100 novels, just keep writing! Read your favorite types of books, grab some science fiction and fantasy occasionally, too.

-Keep up with technology! Checking out what new technologies are out there can generate great new ideas. Here's a great place to keep track every day: CNN Tech News

-Subscribe to gaming magazines. If you don't want to, read about games on sites like Game Spot. Especially see if you can get your hands on Post Mortems; these are developer's thought on what went right/wrong in the process and a general recap of the development process.

-Learn some scripting languages. They come in handy when scripting map events in your editor the programmers so kindly engineered for you.

For aspiring artists (concept artists, 3D modelers and animators, etc):
I'm not the expert on art (especially drawing), but I will say that drawing every day is your best bet. Of course, you know that better than I do, you incredibly talented individuals, you...

Um, if one of you aforementioned individuals would like to post some suggestions for aspiring game artists, please do.

It ends here...
Bide, bide, bide, bide, bide, That's all, folks! *melody here*

-Will

At 7/18/08 03:20 PM, xXCostelloXx wrote: Fer real though concept art as a career would PWN ass man, i mean get paid to fuckin doodle a picture. Yayy

I'm sure it would be great, just like programmers would love sitting at their desk typing all day and designers would love carving out levels in their editor. That's what I find so cool about this career path...it's taking what you love to do all day and turning it into your job.

Also, to funkycaveman:
You should flesh out your story a little more. If you already have, post it up. I'd like to see where it's going, because it looks pretty cool so far. What were you planning on using to make this game?

At 7/18/08 03:10 PM, xXCostelloXx wrote: Drawing for the job woulod be the "Concept Artist" hotness :)

Or "Matte Painter" : 3

I just want to bump this, because I think it would be nice to get it going.

^Refer to my post, 2nd on this page, about organizing a Club in the C&C Forums.

At 7/17/08 02:03 PM, sirtom93 wrote: I prefer politics.

Your sig says it all. I'll vote for you : )

I wish to program some small indie games in my spare time though.

Cool. Game development as a hobby is awesome.

At 7/17/08 12:46 PM, sirtom93 wrote: I program in c++ and have apsolutley no aspirations except to learn c++.

Once you learn C++, what do you see yourself doing with it? Some other kind of software development, possibly? Or do you just have no idea yet? : 3

The fact you came to this thread means you at least have some interest in game development, so maybe you could give it a shot with some small, homemade games. I bet you can think of some cool stuff.

Peacely Mc Peacelson

-Star Craft
-Star Craft: Brood War

BLIZOW!

I'd like to suggest we do some exercises and hold discussions, but I'm not sure whether we should make a group in the Clubs & Crews Forum first. I think that would be the right thing to do, but I want to get everyone's opinion. Also, if any mods want to let us know whether we should be moving to the C&C Forum, that would be awesome.

A Proposition:
As for our new club, I was thinking something along the lines of "Aspiring Game Developers Club." We could share ideas, hold discussions about recent games and technologies and mull over game concepts with one another. Basically, the club would be a sounding board for new ideas, a place to discuss game development in all forms, and a hang-out for those who want to learn more about game development. We can all help each other learn new things.

When starting the new club, we could link to it from here and also link back to this original thread so people have an idea of how we got started.

Back to Before:
So, I was talking about discussions I wanted to have. One discussion we had in a class would translate nicely to Newgrounds, I think. We were talking about making games accessible to everyone. This means catering to common accessibility options not found in a surprising amount of games (sub-titles for the hearing-impaired, alternative graphics options for color blindness, etc). We could take a look at some of the games on Newgrounds and see how they could be made more accessible.

Anyway, let me know what you're thinking and we might be able to get this started if everyone is as excited as I am.

-Will

At 7/16/08 05:24 PM, Raguel wrote: Why can't they make a concept art course? It'd make life so much easier for me.

Unfortunately, it's hard to get specialized courses for something like that. I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice, because god knows it would, but most schools probably don't predict enough return to make it seem worthwhile.

Your courses sound a lot like what I'm doing currently: a little bit of everything. I thought it was stupid at first, but now I realize the importance of understanding what goes on at every stage of production.

Yeah. Just explore around and climb all the towers. In fact, that should be the first thing you do in any city. It shows you where everything is, and you get more health if you do enough of them.